HSBC Announces No Bonuses for 2020
HSBC told its employees today that there will be no bonuses for 2020, but no jobs will be cut thanks to the zero bonuses. Call me privileged, but I can’t lie when I say it’s gotta be fucking brutal to put in 80 hours a week making $85k/yr and living in NYC paying NYC rent. This basically means that first year analysts will have very minimal savings ($10-12k max if you live frugally and have student loans, 401k, healthcare, etc and go out once a week like a normal 22 year old). Most first years save less than $10k from salary alone).
Thoughts?? If my bank follows this, the banking burnout would hit me immediately and my morale would go down 100% and definitely thinking about leaving soon even though I’ll prob just be a wimp and stay put
Yeah, 1-2 of my friends work at HSBC and are going to resign in the next month. Will recruit for other banking jobs or PE jobs in the meantime.
Can’t blame them. I just have a hard time rationalizing that banking is worth just the $85k salary alone when you’re putting in 80+ hours a week and giving up a social life, relationships with friends, family, etc. Absolutely demoralizing news
maybe I’m too privileged or not privileged enough I’m not sure how this comes out but I don’t agree with this at all. the purpose of being a banking grunt isn’t for the $50k bonus at the end of the year. it’s for the chance to make a couple bucks bonus in 10-20 years time. sure by all means leave and go to another bank if it’s that important but I wouldn’t be so concerned with 1st year analyst bonuses as a deciding factor as to how I want to structure the rest of my career
No offense, but that's 100% coming from a place of privilege. When you grow up poor everything is very different. I grew up in the South Bronx and went into IB to have an immediate impact on my family. This job isn't worth the base salary when you think about all the hours and things you have to give up.
I guess this is only somewhat of a rhetorical question: where do they think they're going to go in this environment? I hope they get a rock solid offer before they quit.
They could go to a lot of places. Lots of banks hiring
Makes no sense to me for this to be announced 7 months before the end of the year. Is this confirmed?
What must they be seeing in the pipeline? Perhaps it's a geopolitics call rather than reflective of performance specifically. I don't think their Q1 covid-related loss provision was particularly out of line vs. competition.
is this for bonus earned for 2019 or earned this year? doesnt make sense why they would announce now and not closer to next yr pay out date
HSBC pays their bonuses in March, so folks would've gotten their 2019 $ already.
Can anyone confirm this? Agree with the above that it’s absurd to announce this with half the year left to go... maybe it’s because they were supposed to pay analysts their bonuses next month?
They got 2019 in March...for VPs and Directors I know at least, would have to assume analysts did as well.
They could say no bonuses to encourage turnover rather than lay people off... and then maybe pay who stays a little bit. Who knows. Would be for 2020 bonuses, nobody is still waiting on their 2019 bonuses right? Earliest I'd expect any analysts to get paid is sometime in August (if they aren't paid in March like the non-analysts).
Nothing left over from 2019. HSBC pays their bonuses in March.
IMO better to say this now and let ppl leave than have ppl keep slaving and "earning" the bonus and then not get it. still sucks but losing a job/health during this shitstorm also totally sucks so in some respect gotta count your blessings
How much do you get after tax making 85k?
Like 55k-60 if I’m not mistaken
Thanks. That reply was fast haha
I believe it’s more like ~53-55k after 401k and health insurance
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Not the time and place to ask this
Why?
No reason to delete your post like that. It is important to leave it as the oringailyt for others' edification and understanding so they may benefit too.
I will recreate your innocent post for others: this user said: Is HSBC offering intern offers and are they auto?
Is this really true? Is there a news link or any press at al. Googled it and didn't see anything.
Someone who works there informed litquidity and the other finance instagram meme accounts. That’s where I saw it, no clue where OP saw it.
Those same meme pages said that JPM wasn't paying bonuses; which that's not something anyone can confirm. At least HSBC seems to have some confirms here (one poster said their friends heard this and are leaving, etc., at the outset of this post). I wouldn't doubt the news, but these finmeme accounts are not exactly amazing sources.
No bonus > unemployment, especially in this market
Yes, but:
Trim the underperforming fat from the senior ranks and give the remaining juniors and earning seniors a little bit (assuming you remain) > No bonus > unemployment
Especially at a balance sheet shop like HSBC, you could probably pretty easily find a handful of not very important mid-to-senior heads whose all-in could give meaningful bumps across the remaining (especially for the juniors and support). The comp scales quickly enough.
I'm sure it's an age old management debate, but there's a passivity that gets signaled with the fear of going lean when times get tough. One doesn't have high confidence in this situation that management has killers that will do the hard, necessary things.
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Edit: Btw, not trying to just sound like a complete sociopath, I get that times are much harder beyond the bonus squabbles of a random bank and am not trying to see grownups with families and stuff lose their jobs, I just also sympathize/empathize with the juniors getting stiffed. I understand and haven't lost sight of the fact that it's a hard situation all around though, certainly.
Fair enough, I don't disagree. But perhaps HSBC had a moment of humanity (doubt it, though) and figured that tossing away poorly performing mid-level seniors would be their death sentence in this market. Imagine being a shitty VP and losing your job in this economy, when there aren't many VP roles going around even during good times. It may seem a bit more unfair to not give bonuses, but it is much crueler to cut jobs right now.
I understand the frustation. Just remember that our bonus is continued employment this year. Tens of millions of Americans are in much worse places financially. Stay the course, lateral if you truly feel that is your best course of action, and remember that some semblance of normalcy will return.
that is ridiculous. look if I were working more from home and putting in more work and don’t get bonuses, I would start looking for other opportunities. that is BS. we work our asses off just for the bonus from first year analyst to MD.
Hey Sorry Bonus Cut
True - not sure if you noticed but the first letters of each of the words in your post spell out 'HSBC'
whoosh?
I am not sure I can fully agree. I do realise without the bonuses your job may seem unattractive, but there surely were other reasons why you joined and not 100% just money. Even if it was purely because of financial motives, remember this is a one-off year and very extreme situation where millions of people lost their jobs without any notice, totally out of blue. Therefore even without bonuses this year, you will quickly bounce back and still have opportunities for huge bonuses. For now stay safe and try to think positive - at least you have a job in these somehow difficult times.
Agreed but the issue from the analyst perspective is that they're putting in the same or worse hours and are not being compensated as such. I agree that people should just be happy they are employed but I see the frustration - as privileged and unfounded it may be in this environment.
Didn’t HSBC announce to cut 35k jobs worldwide at the beginning of this year??
Yeah and that was before the crisis too
If you checked the news, you'd know why they aren't paying bonuses. They are in a much worse financial situation than other major banks. They were in a bad state even before the crisis.
Deserved
They are an extremely shitty bank no doubt. But they have a metric shit ton of scammy ex patriot employees they should fire first before no bonuses. Also, there should be no reason for analysts at a bank like this to work more than 40 hours a week.
bonuses across the board are going to be gone or cut heavily... idk how this is shocking to ppl. There's been layoffs at cantor, PWP, and some other smaller groups... shitty as fuck, but that's it. Clearly many young analysts in here...
does anyone know if UBS is in danger? an MD there told me he wanted to jump ship and go to another bulge bracket soon
same question i have since they started hiring a ton of people recently
are you an analyst there?
How do you figure 10-12k in savings with student loans? Also, living in NYC is ridiculously expensive, so even if you live frugally I doubt a first year analyst would be able to save that amount (unless they somehow live at home by the office).
I saved 40k on before bonus my first year (base +signing bonus) and lived two blocks away from my bank. It's possible. I didn't have much of any life that year, so didn't need to spend $$ and lived frugally.
You spent less than 1.3k a month on rent and never spent money on food? Curious to see if you can give a break down of your expenses to see how its possible to save 40k on what is essentially 53-55k after taxes
that is impressive. I’m glad you were able to save that much. Just out of curiosity, what was your total first year comp? Were you at a EB or a BB? Also, did you have roommates? My goal is to save as much as possible (especially in this economy) so was just wondering how you did it.
Would prefer at least having a job to a having a bonus. Things may be tight as analyst but this won’t be forever. My bank hasn’t said anything but I’ve already set my expectations to no bonus tbh
Drilla got a bonus from his label
get on the phone interviews right away
While I completely understand the frustration, think of the alternative. No one had to lose their job, in the midst of a global pandemic being able to even have savings this year is huge. You’re focusing on going out one night a week, other firms cut people who may now be focusing on their next meal. $85k is a lot better than $0k and who knows, you may have been the person who was let go at which point you may likely be saying “why didn’t they just cut bonuses instead of tearing apart my livelihood”.
Not trying to bash you because your point of view is understood completely, however the alternatives aren’t as pretty. If you were to throw your problems/struggles in a pile with other people’s and had to pick one you’d likely pick your own. Just my 2¢.
Edit: Not at all trying to praise socialism or some feel good "everyone should have an equal job" mantra here, just trying to shed light on the fact that we are extremely fortunate to even have a job. Again had they made cuts you may have been among them at which point you would be singing a very different song.
Might get some heat on this comment, but any thoughts on the following opinion that I would have if my bank announced the same thing:
Since when was investment banking (banks in general) a place where you praise socialism? If I am a top ranked analyst who worked my ass off, staffed on the biggest / most important deals for the bank because of my proven superior work product, why should I be happy that instead of job cuts, there will just be zero bonuses? Everyone signing up to do investment banking knows that there’s ups and downs. During the good years, banks are hiring left and right. During the tough times, banks are firing left and right. Basically, you know it’s possible that your bank will let you go in tough times.
So as a top analyst, why should I be all cheerful if my bank says “instead of saving money by firing people, we will save money by not firing a single person but instead give no bonus”? In my opinion, let the bottom 10-20% or whatever performers go, and use that to pay bonuses to the people left over even if its a smaller amount. Another viewpoint: what the hell is the point of DB laying off a ton of ppl in the last few years? I guess they should have just paid everyone zero bonuses and kept their jobs if that’s the “moral” thing to do. But no, I believe that banking is a competitive field where people go into it knowing they’ll get paid differently based on performance. No way some bum analyst who goes home at 8pm every night and fucks around at work all day working on the shittiest project gets to keep his job and get paid the same amount I do
this is just demoralizing - they will soon be losing some of the best bankers in EMEA and APAC
Go check your privilege. Other people do harder and more grueling stuff than you do for much less pay. Just suck it up or quit if you don't like
In my opinion bonuses have always been poor nomenclature, they would more aptly be described as performance based pay, and are used as a retention tool to keep key talent. A wholesale ban on bonuses is effectively a subsidy for the strong performers to the weak performers, and in practice drives the best talent out of the bank, to retain the 35,000 bodies who would otherwise be laid off.
HSBC has always been a remarkable bureaucratic and inefficient entity, and the conceit at HSBC has always been that it is a gentler employer, which by and large pays less in exchange for providing its employees with financial stablilty. It is also a commercial bank at heart, and management likely see the investment banking as a perpetual underperformer. As someone who had a cup of coffee at HSBC, the joke was that the way you became a AD / VP there was by not finding a job at a real bank, and that half the firm could be laid off without skipping a beat.
Look at it this way, at least every1 still gets to keep their job. True, you might think that you'd prefer it if some ppl got the axe while the survivors got the bonus, but then u have to consider that perhaps u might be among those who are cut from the bank.
True, it might be very demoralizing, but at least u still have a regular job. Lots of people don't, and for those who have been let go, its going to be very hard to get a new one since most firms have likely put hiring on hold due to the current situation. Take comfort in that. You can still put food on the table and pay rent, while others are barely scraping by, if at all.
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I haven't heard this from any of my friends at HSBC.
Bonus? What's that? Never had the fortune of getting one, living in the EU nation with the most stringent bonus cap (20%) and where most companies in the financial services industry have phased out bonuses entirely or at least for people working here. At my company (EUR 200 billion+ AUM), only C-level management and some very fortunate people in our offices in NYC, London and Asia get a bonus. About 2% of employees received a bonus last year.
While cost of living is pretty high in Amsterdam, I will say that I understand that only living on base pay must be hard in Manhattan at times, where cost of living is more expensive still. Note that median per capita income in Manhattan is approx. $ 72k according to Census.gov though, so even without a bonus, many Analysts would still be at the median or slightly above.
After be laid off in April, it pretty hard to sympathize with any of you spoiled over privileged 20 somethings cry about no bonuses for one year. Guessing most of you crying on this board are the same ones starting the looting in Manhattan during the protests you f$$king idiots. Start throwing that monkey shitz
Considering that the bonus is like 80-100% of your salary, it's not "privledged".
Yes, things could always be worst, but that's like saying you should be glad you got laid off and have unemployment check because there's people in third world countries who have nothing to fall back on...
Seriously people, have some empathy
Hey OP, if you think it's brutal working 80 hrs/week for $85K/yr, living in NYC and paying NYC rent, try working 0 hrs/week for $0K/yr, living in NYC and paying NYC rent, when nobody's hiring. I feel damn lucky just to have a job right now, and you should too.
I've seen some middle markets which, anecdotally from friends, are actually faring decreased bonuses but are still paying them out nonetheless. From their perspective, private debt placements / private placements (on the equity side) have taken off quite a bit and their business hasn't exactly slowed down. Just something I heard from trusted friends Different for M&A obviously but among the analyst pool, it appears that product groups were supporting the lack of deal flow in other groups. Let me know if you've heard different as I'm curious
Anyone hear any validity to the claim that they've begun rescinding incoming FT offers from 2019 SAs?
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