Intern Burnout, Considering Full-Time
I interned this summer in investment banking and got completely crushed. My hours ranged between 85-105 each week, but were usually around 95ish. I started to get really burned out. Its been over a month and I am still very stressed from this past summer and considering going back. It was not uncommon to be in the office until 4-5am then back at 8:30am multiple days in a row and then back to the regular 8:30am to 1:30am schedule for just a few days before getting crushed again. I only had 3 days off the whole summer (one full weekend and forth of July).
Emotionally I started to being unhappy. I would look out a window and see people doing things with their life and wish I was them. I felt like I wasn't really living at all and would wonder what it felt like to feel the wind blowing against my face, because I had not been outside for so long. One period where I was completely sleep deprived, getting around 2 hours a night, I felt like there was tons of pressure in my chest and my vision started to get blurry, but I just tried to keep working anyways.
As much as my experience sounds brutal above, I actually really loved the work I was doing and the people I was working with. I felt like the learning was top notch and all the assignments were interesting. The lack of sleep and working out is what scares me.
I am considering going back to work there full-time, but I do not know if things will be different. I will have a little more control over my schedule and can possibly tell the staffer if I am getting overworked. I can easily do a 100 hour work week if there were a few days of lighter work in between the assignments to recover.
Has anyone experienced this type of burnout as an intern, but been able to handle it full-time? What are ways I can avoid burnout if I come back full time? Am I just stupid for even considering going back if I am not the type of person who can do 16-18 hour days for 2 years?
Give the job to me, I don't mind having no life and sitting inside all day. Hell, I'm doing so already, just at shitty jobs so that I may have a shot at banking.
Thanks guys. I prefer not to say the bank's name for reputation purposes, but given so many peer banks had regulated hours there are only a couple of options. I also agree that it is easy to believe "the grass is greener" elsewhere, then find out it is not. I think I am going to return and just work hard on improving my excel and modeling skills during the school year so I can be more efficient when I come back for full-time.
There are so many juvenile idiots in this thread. "Ohhhh, you moron, why are you leaving this job you want to be respected and models & bottles make so much $$$$"
My recommendation - get out now. You have IB experience on your resume - that's incredibly valuable and can get you on the inside track on pretty much any entry level finance job. There's so many things out there you can do with reasonable hours, from buy-side roles for a mutual fund or insurance company, to sell-side roles like equity or fixed income research, to other things like corporate finance and development. Or you can do what I do - real estate finance.
Find out something you're interested in, interview well, and you'll have it.
People who measure their lives in terms of how much better off they are versus their peers and how prestigious their job is will always be unhappy.
I'm going to be honest with you, and it's going to be harsh, and it's going to come off as an asshole.
Soldier up.
You need to understand that you're in an amazing position. Literally on the verge of having one of the most prestigious types of careers in business. The knowledge you will learn from this experience and from an IBD role for 2 years will set you up for life in most ways.
Going from IBD to anything else is much easier than vice versa. The 'prestige' of banking alone will help carry you along throughout the rest of you adult years. Now don't get me wrong, those first two years will suck and you will want to quit and you may hate life, you may literally become marginally depressed.
However, after two years of IBD from 22 to 24 you'll be able to experience the rest of your 20's in a way 99% won't and then your 30's in a way 99.5% of people won't.
If you CAN suck it up and do it, and you did since you made it through the internship. In my honest opinion I would suggest you take it.
This thread basically encapsulates the problem with how young people view IB, specifically at BBs and EBs. They think it's all about "prestige". This leads countless number of kids into having miserable lives because they either had false assumptions or were under (social, peer, familial, etc.) pressure to go into IB. People don't realize that IB is just as much of a "rat race" as a standard corporate job, albeit the intensity is ratcheted up 10x. Yes, there are potentially some amazing rewards at the end of it if you can survive the hours, office politics, asshole bosses, etc. However, none of those rewards are work destroying your physical and mental health over.
Fuck prestige. If you feel that the hours in IB are killer and are making you depressed, then don't do it. There are MANY other high paying jobs that will fulfill you and give you plenty of opportunities in the future. Look into AM, ER, F500 corporate finance, F500 Business Operations/Corporate Development, working for a startup, consulting, real estate etc.
Also fuck this idea that you spend your time in college/internships "working towards IB". You work hard so that you can have a variety of options, and don't end up like those lazy fuckers who end up being GameStop store managers.
Kids these days need to finally wake up and stop pushing this "models and bottles" view of IB and instead find themselves a career path that pays well, is challenging, and won't destroy them (whether that is IB or not).
I feel for you, man. It’s a tough call. And ultimately it comes down to what matters to you.
After my summer internship at JP Morgan (back in 1997…) my body was so run down that I contracted a severe virus that kept me bed-ridden for a week. But that never deterred me from going back after it the next year landing the two jobs I wanted—Goldman and Morgan Stanley.
My first two years at Goldman were even harder. As one of the comments said, there’s nothing badass about working 100 hour weeks, yet those first few years of working around the clock dramatically changed what was possible for me. It is a tough profession. It demands more of you than is reasonable. It pushes you to the brink, and that’s what forces you to keep growing stronger and better.
That’s not for everyone, but it is what happens when you pursue an elite profession—Look at what doctors do to make it through residency and elite soldiers do to make it through special ops training. That’s not to say that banking “should” be this way, but it is how it is.
Having worked on Wall Street for 17 years, including one year as the staffer managing hundreds of analysts and associates I’ve seen it all. Some people revel in working around the clock. Some burnout and get out before their program is through. Some suck it up just to make it through knowing it is worth it for them. But those who truly excel are the ones who want to be there, not those who want to just get the job done so they can get out of the office. As you said you loved the work and the people, and it’s a matter of whether you love it more than watching the people working their 50 hours a week in a less challenging profession enjoying their life.
In the end it’s all about what you want and what you really value. Truth is. While IB is extreme, look to your friends who work at Google or indeed Amazon or many other hard charging places. They are working crazy hours under tough conditions and not rewarded like IB. And it’s not just comp I’m referring to. A couple of years at a top investment bank and you create options that can set your career and life on a rocket-ship trajectory.
Having proven yourself in this tough profession, doors to other jobs on Wall Street and corporate, and of course business school are open to you. There is no “right” answer, but the truth you see from other comments is that if you take the job full-time you must expect it to be as “tough” as your internship.
As you get more productive it might get better, but the hours will be long and the stress will persist. The best thing you can do is train yourself to become more mentally and physically resilient. Focus on your health. Exercise. Take supplements. Optimize your sleep. Train yourself for hardcore performance. And train your time management and other skills to get more done in less time.
No matter what the pursuit, to really go for it requires extraordinary efforts. It’s just a question of what you want and what you are willing to do to get it.