Investment Banking Fucking Sucks and I Personally Advise Against it

“Notice me” is spot on lmao. Always the insecure useless seniors doing the most for the worst results

What are you gonna do about it

Intersting considering I am trying really hard to break in, can you tell me more about the physical/mental health side of things? I thought extreme discipline can help get 6 hours sleep with 1 hour gym, how true is that?

Also while the money is worth it but the job is not fulfilling, what about those who do not know what is equally fulfilling and pays equally well at the same time? I have thought of SWE but the culture there sucks more ass than one could imagine

So why are you still there after 4 years?

If you’re still doing admin work on a summer weekend in August after four years on the job, and don’t have 1-2 people working for you to do it, you haven’t figured out the cheat code and you probably should leave asap. 
 

I agree with a lot of what is written here, however I'd ask how much of this is "Investment Banking Fucking Sucks And I Personally Advise Against It" or "My specific Investment Bank and team Fucking Sucks And I Personally Advise Against It"? Have you tried moving elsewhere?

A second point I think is that the vast majority of "high power jobs" have this "slave to X" end-game for seniors, be it MDs, PE Partners, Consultant Partners, CEOs, the President, etc. That said, I think the real point (which you make with that FP&A suggestion which I whole-heartedly agree with) is that we need to reflect on what is really important. IB is not all prestige and models and bottles, and even if it is, so what?

Am moving over to MBB for those reasons, hopefully it’s not a grass-is-greener kinda thing and things are actually better…

8) is actually the ultimate source of cancer in IB. I don't get why stuff need to go through 10 layer of reviews before it gets to the person who will actually present and need it. When you send draft to someone to review, they are faced with two options: (1) to give it a sign-off, but you look like you barely spend effort reviewing (2) add random 0 value-add comments to avoid perception of not doing anything.

So you end up with 10000000 comments before the MD takes a look and throw everything in the appendix.

#5 seems to be coming more and more true year after year.

Most of the kids I worked with were the most sheltered and uninteresting people I’ve ever met. These kids had never been to concerts, partied at bars/clubs, travelled, have established friend groups, etc. and seemingly spent their entire lives indoors with books in their faces. 

I hate to be that guy, but you're 4 years in and still doing admin tasks, let alone non-deal related, and ON A WEEKEND. Bruh, I don't even know where to start.

As someone else here said, you don't understand the game, banking is def not the right fit for you. It might be less intense at a softer corporate job or whatever, but its still played.

Every time I see one of these posts I brace myself for the incoming boomer MD comments about how analysts "haven't figured it out" or "aren't cut out for this industry". I left banking not because of the work, but because of the shit people I suffered under as an analyst. I was trapped working for an MD who brought in little to no deals to the firm (and was ultimately laid off 6 months after I had left the firm). During my tenure I begged the staffer to put me on projects with different teams, but it fell to deaf ears. I recall so many soul-sucking nights and weekends where I would be working late on materials that I knew deep down would never amount to a live deal. 

Not saying every experience is like this (have friends who've been quite fortunate and had a relatively good experience in IB), but definitely something to consider for those considering entering.

Bruh how you a certified fourth year Analyst 2 lmfao feel like dude has other issues

The good college kids are now going directly to buyside. If PEs are too arrogant to take them, then quant hedge funds will always open doors to the brightest of minds. Ibanking is merely a painful bridge to the buyside, and smart kids have started having some buyside-airdrop fun. What's the point of walking the bridge ? Just two years of meaningless grind.

my experience in banking has never been like that but maybe i'm just lucky

I am just a junior A2A associate and admittedly there are plenty of days where I want to hit people with my keyboard but more than half of these factors are issues with your team and not IB itself. This is why I caution incoming interns/grads to choose teams based on actual interest and culture DD instead of what WSO says about prestige.

1. After analyst 1, I see juniors push back or adjust timelines every day. There is an art in effectively / diplomatically killing pages with MD/VP, again if your team is toxic, thats a different story
2. Money is better than 90% of alternatives that offer a better WLB unfortunately. Recently got an offer for a corp dev role that would have paid 70% of my all-in IB comp but again downside is that IB/PE track promotes much faster than corporate track. 
3. Sure we make less than pre-GFC bankers but again, unless you have a time machine not sure what to do about this one. Lawyers were mocked in the 90s-00s for making less than bankers and now PE lawyers are raking in much more than MDs (these things aren't static and we don't know what the next 10-20yrs of comp will look like)
4. I have seen so many more varied exits than this, have seen venture debt, VC, growth and then for the less traditional: corporate strategy, chief of staff to CFO of a unicorn, MBB lateral, etc. Usually the people complaining about lack of exits are the ones who did 0 prep and 0 networking for alternative options (HHs wont reach out for these edge cases)
5. Yes true, ignore them and be the nice + chill guy in the office and the seniors will respect it. One of the biggest pros in feedback sessions has been not letting random BS or people's rants phase me. People in this job have to be slightly off to do it, let the idiots roll off your back (chances are in IB, either you or he/she will be gone within the next two years anw) 
6. True, not sure how this differs from other corporates but get your point
7. In a way this fills me with confidence, you are telling me I could be a single-cell amoeba of a senior and still make millions in finance
8. Yep, this sucks and is infuriating. But think how much better senior you could be in IB/PE if you aren't an idiot
9. Yes, but you get paid a lot more for being a corporate drone 

None of the above negates the fact that IB does indeed suck at times or a lot of the times, but if you view it as something YOU are using to advance your long-term interests instead of the other way around, it is a lot more palatable until you find that right exit path / decide to stay long-term

In their defense, consultants do "notice me" useless market reports and ad-hoc analyses too. 

Meanwhile, 5 posts probably popped up on Reddit: "I am non-target working in back office, how do I get IB job?"

Yes but I need to fucking do it to get where I want to go… (Corp Dev)

Oh shit bro, the Analyst 2 personally advises against it. Analyst 2 is a titan of industry. When Analyst 2 dishes out his recommendations people listen. 

Analyst 2 has just put Blackrock, Goldman and Rich Handler on notice. He has, potentially, destroyed the entire industry with this deeply personal advisement.  

Definitely agree that banking sucks, but isn’t that why most people do it for only two years? I agree with each of the points you made about why it’s awful, but most people aren’t looking to be career bankers.

For kickstarting a career in finance, it’s probably the best bet that college students have available to them. Sure, if you’re interested in PE and can get a job directly out of college, more power to you, but those are pretty competitive. That said, there’s a reason why the IB analyst positions are so sought after.

I am 4 years into (a job I hate) and have been delusionally telling myself it is going to get better, however it really has not (because you hate your job). Am currently spending my nth consecutive weekend trapped in my shitty NYC apartment (You Could Have Done This Job In a Low Cost of Living City) doing bullshit deal related and non-deal related admin tasks while all my non-banking friends seems to be out enjoying the last of the summer (They Do Bullshit tasks from 9-5 and get no deal exposure). So, in my busy-work fueled misery, I write to you a few points I have concluded regarding banking:

• "Pushing back" is a fake concept in an industry where perception and appeasing your superiors is literally 100% of what decides your fate

Welcome to any corporate role. Your boss decides your fate and everyone is a brown noser. Fortunately, pushing back isn't a fake concept when you know how to push back and/or don't care if you aren't the top bucket. Middle bucket is the way--someone who is good and competent, but pushes back can still make MD. It is so hard to find good smart people.

• The money is good, but not worth the sacrifice. Your relationships, mental and physical health, and overall deamenor will suffer in ways you likely did not even think about before joining

I agree. Why you are just getting this memo 4 years in rather than realizing after a 2 year analyst stint it is time to jump ship is beyond me. 

• Pay has stagnated immensely at all levels for the majority (inb4 "b-b-buh the BASE RAISES!!" Bro, inflation adjusted, we still make considerably less than the pre-gfc bankers - it is what is at this point, we are never going back to that)

If you did the job for the pay, you did it for the wrong reasons. Do it for the learning, the real pay comes later from the credentialing and experience that gets applied to other fields.

• The exit ops are basically corp dev or PE (let's face it, not many of us are going to be joining Pershing Square or Elliott - but if you do, congrats, hats off)

The uncreative exits are these. Also these are highly interesting and sought after roles. What are you comparing to? It's better than virtually any other finance job in terms of exit ops. If you don't want to take a pay cut and pivot industries that's your own issue.

• There are so many LOSERS who work in banking. So many insecure, over compensating, "I will literally ruin my relationship with my wife and kids for my clients" MORONS who work in this space. The worst part is, they will try to convince you that you should be like them and their behavior is necessary to succeed

You are this person. You have sacrificed for 4 years rather than Getting tfo. Yeah the industry requires immense sacrifice, so do most high paying roles at large companies. Risk, hard hours, pay--pick 2. If you are looking for a high paying role with decent hours, its probably very risky. Otherwise, you likely will be worked like a dog.

• Pre-MD you are a slave to your MD, and at the MD level, you are a slave to your fees. Banks do not give a single shit about you and will fire you on a moments notice. Half my team was axed earlier this year - see you fkn later

Welcome to a corporate role my man. They are running a business, not a charity. They have a legal fiduciary obligation in fact to make as much profit as possible and that often involves over hiring when times are good and firing when times are bad. It's not personal--it's business. Don't be the guy that takes macro economic driven decisions as personal. All banks had the best deal flow in decades and now have a glut--they need to adjust to business conditions. Do you also think that companies that make CD's are evil because they fired people when the ipod came out? 

• To caveat the point above, there are SO many "meh" senior guys who make a few fees here and there but are certainly not driving PnL for the bank. If you get stuck with one of these guys as a junior, good luck bc you are not getting paid and you are not getting good deal experience lol

Most banks, pay is pretty standardized at the junior level. The difference between buckets is also very marginal in the scheme of things, aka amounting to a 5% difference in pay. In terms of experience, you can learn a lot from a moron. Don't underestimate how effective learning what not to do is. Especially early in someones career.

• I call it the "notice me" rabbit hole, but MDs will literally do fucking anything to "add-value" (I.e., work their juniors to the bone on stupid ad-hoc analyses and market reports that no one gives a shit about to appear as though they are contributing). This is usually a characteristic of the aforementioned "meh" MD when their fees do not speak for themselves

Yup. You are in a client service industry. If you want to move to an industry less subjective and more results based be ready to be judged on your work product and live and die by the sword. It sounds great to have unsubjective criteria, but ask traders who have books blow up due to black swan events how much it can suck.

• After having lengthy discussions with many of my college friends who work in various corporate jobs, we really all just do the same boring shit. Banking is no different - we are the exact same corporate drones, albeit comparatively overworked and paid slightly more

Right and Wrong. All entry level jobs are grunt work--you have no experience, that is why. However, the role at an investment bank makes you qualified to understand M&A and executive decision making--most corporate roles you would never be in the room with a decision maker at the junior level.

• Listen, I get this is a giant "woe is me" rant, but seriously think about if you really want to join this godawful industry. I too was a non-target hardo who came from a lowerclass background but I really do not know if the sacrifice is worth it. I am certainly not happier than I was before. Just some food for thought.

It is time for you to leave the role my man. This job clearly has taken a toll on you and you need to get some perspective. It will get better. You will leave, have free time, be happy, then unhappy because you will feel guilty about your free time, then go through a journey of self discovery and determine what actually is important in life. My recommendation: Friends, Family, Fulfilling Work, and Living in the moment recognizing life has some twists and turns and that is what makes it enjoyable.

For prospects, the job is worth it for most people for 1-2 years--after that there is diminishing utility. Don't go in like a deer in a headlights, if 8/10 analysts leave after 2 years, the role probably has some problems. You aren't the first hardo convinced they are "built different" who has entered the field. Eventually most rational people leave because they can get better hours or better pay leveraging their experience elsewhere.