Is it a mistake to be Loyal? Should I lateral?
I am currently an ANL 3 and will be promoted Associate 1 in March 2023
Would it be a mistake to stay at my current bank? I am pretty happy at my bank to be honest, but on the other hand moving bank is an easy way to increase my fixed salary
Indeed, the hiring budget is always more than the retention budget
What do you guys think? Should I move bank to get a salary increase? I am very happy at my current bank and I might end up working with difficult seniors at another bank, is it worth it taking the risk?
Any reply is very appreciated
I think you answered your own question. You will get a higher salary but the rest is very unknown and people don’t stay this long for the money, if you’re unhappy you’ll change (again).
I personally don’t think it’s worth it but do as you wish, it might be an experience to have.
Also you’ll have to go through recruitment processes + tell your team you’ll leave, they might not take you back after. I think it’s too risky
In my team, no one stays more than 3 years (and it's a big team). Even if seniors are super nice, I am questioning myself: if everyone leaves, maybe it's the right thing to do?
But agreed - I don't think I will leave. At another bank, I might get +20k salary bump, but might also end up working with toxic seniors -> I might burn out, leave Banking and in the end it's a huge loss in terms of salary (not worth the initial 20k)
Basically I think moving would be stupid, but the fact that everyone else in my team leaves after 3 years makes me doubt. Why are they moving?
Maybe you can reach out to them and ask, they might have other reasons than salary
Don't listen to that fucking intern telling you to stay, your bank would fire you in a heartbeat if it had to - why would you be loyal to a corporation that has no loyalty to you? Go where the money is and jump ship - there are studies showing that people moving to new firms make much more money over their career than those who stay in the same company all their lives. NO. HONOR. AMONG. THIEVES.
Yes, but it's not that simple
There is the risk of working with toxic seniors, burning out and leaving IB. And that's a huge loss of money too
All the board members care about is money so why shouldn’t we? This is accurate. They don’t care about you, only their bottom line.
+1. Good teams are hard to find in this industry. If your team has good culture then that's a strong reason to stay put.
My advice when considering these things is to review what it does for QOL. Looking at raw $ is not always helpful. Ie. $2k/mo means… xyz to you. Does that xyz outweigh a potentially toxic environment? For example, does that mean you can afford vacations you have wanted to take? Or a nicer apartment/house? Or for a partner to take a hiatus to change careers? Or that you can afford to have kids? Etc. If it’s something very important to you I’d take it. If it just nudges you slightly closer to retirement, then I agree with your initial doubts. You have a good team, stick it out.
So I worked with difficult seniors in the past and my conclusion was: the best way to deal with toxic seniors is to avoid toxic seniors
Do you know by how much % could the fixed salary and bonus increase, if I move as an associate 1? Is it material? (the 20k I gave are made up)
I keep seeing this advice on WSO and I constantly get monkey shit thrown at me whenever I question it but…
Institutions might not have loyalty, but individuals do. Personal networks are something that will most certainly define and influence your career down the road.
It’s not to say that you should be bound to your first team/boss but you should also not entirely discount it if you have a good thing going on.
You need to decide what your long term goals are. Are you looking to stay in IB, or would you be looking at exit opps at some point in your associate years (FYI harder to leave banking as a VP, until D/MD level when corp roles open back up but no PE/HF).
Second consideration is the prestige/opportunity of the shop, and base compensation is a distant 3rd. At your age, in the grand scheme of things you make plenty of money, so an extra $20k ($1k/mo post-tax) is nice but by no means a game changer. As another poster said, would you really trade that for your happiness doing something 70+ hours a week? If you're lateralling to a shop with comparable rep / opportunity, it's not worth it IMO. If the lateral could provide more exit opps, it could be worth taking it if you are planning to exit banking in the near-term.
But if you're planning to stay in banking, another consideration is if you feel you have strong support and mentorship from senior bankers in your current group. That's going to be a lot more important for your long-term trajectory than you'd think. Having a banker you can grow off of, and will support you at the next promotion cycles to VP/D is going to be key. It'll help you start to pick up the actual client coverage skills you'll need later on down the road, as well as help carve out a coverage space for you (as an eventual MD) to your group head.
Of course this will have to be balanced as well with the prestige and industry momentum of the group you're in vs. lateralling as well. At a shop like GS, it'll be easier to pick up lead roles with prospective clients, which will be an upside later in your career. But you may also transfer into a group just looking for a warm body to put into a seat to work, with no one that is really going to push for you to eventually be a calling officer. There may also be increased internal competition for those MD spots, if your sub-vertical has a limited set of clients, which will make that final cut to MD more difficult
Think I will stay in IB long term:
- PE you work way more, more pressure and responsibilities, less money at a junior level (yes you can get 2bps carried in 30 years in know lmao), more difficult to be promoted
- HF: Very hard to get in, more pressure, you can be fired in 2 seconds
- All the other sectors: not worth the salary cut imo
Also I don't know why people are always talking about exit opps, it's like they are living a life based on illusions
So yes, IB long term. Think I will stay at my current firm, but again why is everyone else resigning
Yes, I agree with you from a pure comp/QOL basis and don't think people should always take HF/PE exit opps just because that's what everyone else is doing. That said, it makes sense for people with actual passion or interest in the fundamentally different type of work (esp for HF as junior, less for PE). A number of my friends and colleagues have gone to both and are quite happy with what they do
Finance and especially IB has always been a high turnover industry. People leave for a lot of different reasons. Given our work/life balance, many are either just OK or unhappy with their current firm, so moving somewhere with better comp or prestige is mostly or all upside. Hypothetically, if you were only just OK or unhappy at your current firm, lateralling would be a no brainer, right?
If you're just talking about juniors resigning, that's pretty typical - a lot of people decide they want to try something different, or just used banking as the entryway into other jobs. In the past it was almost expected, as the A2A promotion pathway only became formalized around 2016 for many banks. Before that it was on a case by case basis, and at some shops only for exceptional analysts.
Solely focusing on salary here: if you are a valued junior and are one of the juniors longest in the team (since others have left), why don't you bring up the higher salary your competitors are offering and see whether you might be able to get a salary increase/higher bonus/fast-tracked? If you bring it in a constructive way, they will definitely think about it. Everyone in the finance industry is coping with high churn of juniors, so especially juniors that have been with the firm/team for the longest time will/should be well-listened to.
LATERAL mothafucka, that simple CASH CHECKS.
My thoughts are if you’re moving up then stay. It shows they respect you and you are critical to the team. The key point is being moved, up if you weren’t advancing then jet.
I’ve been stale for 3 years with career growth and am now leaving (covid shot my career in the foot). It is basically a lateral and the pay is much better. Also, it seems like less of a grind than my current position.
If you do decide to look you’re in a good spot. You’ve already gone through the ringer in terms of interviews and the pressure is off with finding a new job. What I noticed this go around is I almost didn’t care what they thought during the interview. I’m sure this helped make me look good. That being said, it does suck leaving a team with people you like.
When was the last time someone received a loyalty bonus? Please, please let me know where s/he works.
Are you also moving geographies or are you staying, if you move banks?
Loyalty doesn't exist in this industry - they will screw you over without second thought to protect the MD and exec comp pool (see top buckets getting crumbs in 2020 despite working 24/7).
That being said agree with the other posters about not moving for a $20k bump unless you know first hand that the new team has a similar or better culture.
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