Is this Possible Buyside > DCM?
Hi everyone,
Currently working as an investment specialist at a MM AM in the UK. My role currently sits in the Investment Grade and High Yield debt team. We basically act as the technical sales guys, mostly spend time creating decks, attending research meetings & acting as the portfolio manager in client meetings. It’s a mix of real investment work (have a first hand seat to the investment strategy, and learn a lot about the markets) and sales/marketing/relationship management.
I don’t have a degree but think my background is good for DCM. Considering I don’t have a degree would any bank even look at me. Have a few proffesional qualifications and some experience in big 4 audit (I know not really relevant but I have it).
Question is, is this possible at all, through networking & just straight up applying or will I just be rejected?
Just show you understand their job, have good reasons for why their group, and emphasize what relevant skills you've accumulated from your prior role that would be a good fit for DCM. Be humble and do not sound entitled.
How hard do you think it would be without a degree? I have the relevant skills and a pretty strong understanding of the fixed income market in general (no modelling from on the job experience but don’t think it’s required in DCM anyways + if it is I have completed modelling courses and have a background in b4 accounting so I don’t find them too difficult in general).
Only worry is that a lot of banks are quite traditional so worried I might get dinged automatically just for missing out on that requirement. I don’t have a huge network on the sellside since I never went to uni or had an “analyst” class.
Curious as to how are you doing the work you say you are doing without a degree? I use my college degree (undergrad and MBA) to do my job. How do you know about finance without it?
In the UK we have apprenticeship programs so you don’t need an undergrad for these programs. You do proffesional qualifications like the ACA (UK’s CPA) & I’m studying for an Investment qualification now (IMC CFA). Ofcourse it doesn’t a replace a traditional undergrad but it does the job.
Pretty much self taught myself everything and asking a lot of questions to senior people. Then it’s about consolidating it using the proffesional qualification exams.
In the US you can’t sit for the CPA without the required undergrad education.. I can’t fathom how a no education UK CPA test is similar to a US CPA test..
We have an ACA it’s not exactly the same, the qualification is structured differently. It starts basic and builds up. Starts with certificate level then ends at advance. It also takes 4 years to become a CPA in the UK without a degree (around 3 years for graduates). It’s not 1 test you complete exams as you go along and build up experience in total 16 exams covering accounting, tax etc.
I didn’t finish it because I moved into AM but it wasn’t particularly difficult. Accounting is relatively simple (no advanced math), in general for finance if you’re not a quant you can get by with High School math, some common sense and actually trying to learn.
It may be possible via networking but in the UK DCM is generally quite hard to get into at entry level, if you aren't a grad and don't have direct IB related experience. Roles do come up occasionally but they are few and far between. At the moment hiring is fairly thin on the ground, but conditions change.
Do you speak any languages in addition to English? That can sometimes help.
In my opinion you'd need:
1) To find a genuine opportunity - even if someone were to "create" a role for you, it would have to be advertised externally on the jobs board (and usually internally as well)
2) To have networked enough and have a strong enough application for DCM management to pick your application out
I think it's definitely worth seeing what you can achieve but I would manage your expectations a little. I'd love to be proved wrong here.
You could also check out project finance, that also be quite interesting if structured debt interests you.
I’m actually working on building out our approach to structured finance investments at our firm (the old analyst left so they needed someone).
Primarily CMBS & RMBS with some CLO’s sprinkled in there too. I’ve actually now moved to covering infrastructure & natural capital as a research analyst so hoping some experience in top down analysis also helps.
Also RE languages I speak 4 fluently but they aren’t European languages so can’t imagine it being useful unless I’m working on EM stuff. I speak a little bit of Danish/German too.
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