Definitely very important when you get older and have a family. But I feel like when you are you you should definitely go all out . A lot of people these days don’t want to work as hard as other generations did when they were in their 20-30 or even til 40. Would be curious to hear everyone’s thoughts.
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People on this forum often make it seem like you sacrifice 2-4 years of work / life balance to then have a job that pays exceptionally well with moderate hours. I think after working for a few years, you quickly realize this isn’t the case. The MDs that are bringing in deals at my BB still easily work 70 hours a week, including weekend. They start a few hours before analysts and are often on client / deal related calls until 10pm or later. Before the pandemic, there was also significant travel. The key difference is their work doesn’t require being in front of a computer and they have more flexibility in when they want to do it. IMO, you need to really enjoy the job to stay in it long term. Deal-related work will always entail tight deadlines and odd hour calls that require MDs attention.
As a 25 years old virgin (no kiss) I'm asking myself the same question, but I think my answer differs from yours.
If you work in banking, then you got enough cash to hire a professional. So, no excuses on never been kissed.
Let it be known that you are not alone in this, brother.
I'm convinced this is the main reason right wing populism and people like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson are popular.
just grind out 20-40 years bro who cares
Having run the IB gauntlet - I firmly believe that really focusing on your career for 2-5 years out of college sets you up exceptionally well for the rest of your career. You still need to have balance - lifetime of work is a marathon, not a sprint and a ton of people burn out.
Also - its pretty uncommon for MDs to be working 70 hours, as some analyst said. Just because MDs are emailing early (kids are usually early risers) and taking calls late doesnt mean I was just sitting at a desk all the time in between.
yeah i mean it's easier when you're younger but that shit still sucks when you can't date, can't make concrete plans, friendships fall apart because you all never see each other, can't even watch tv at night unless you want to be up until 2 or 3 am to catch up on your latest episode. i came into my analyst program thinking i was ready to make major personal sacrifices for money and career advancement and realized a year in, no i'm not.
The only thing that bothers me about working long hours is not being able to keep up with exercise and fitness. Other than that, I don’t feel like I’m missing out on much. Most of my friends at 22-25 spend their free time going to bars and restaurants. Big deal. I did enough of that in college and I’d rather spend these years getting a jump start on my career.
People who would say this do not know what IB hours would do to their health, friendships, relationships etc. 2 years in IB doesn’t always translate into a great career, but it will almost always mean your health takes a toll and your friends start to make plans without you. You become this soulless person with no hobbies. Heck, you won’t even have time to watch a movie or read a good book sometimes so you become this boring fk who only cares about their next bonus check
Not even just the hours but also this culture of people being dic*s to each other. So you not only have the physical but also mental stress.
^This. I know an individual that spent his college years vying for a job in IB and got one, at the expense of a social life/quality time with friends. He has absolutely no real hobbies, and can only really talk about finance and exit opps. His mindset was always to grind now and reap the benefits later. But he's a year in working very long hours with his firm (which has a brutal culture, according to this site), he still has no social life, still a virgin, and has become a very bitter and insecure person. He justifies this by pointing at the amount of money he makes/expects to be making in a couple years - as if money will buy friendships (or maybe it does, idk). But deep down, however, he's upset about his lack of genuine relationships and if he continues going down this path, his only "friends" will be people who are interested in his money. I respect his grind, but I don't think he really considered the toll it'll take on his personal life.
My point in relaying this is that work-life balance absolutely is important. You should continue to grind and chase good opportunities, but not at the expense of your health, family and friends. What good is having a huge bank account if you're alone? How you make it work is up to you - personally, I think it comes down to time management. If time permits, block out 1-2 hrs a day to either to go to the gym, read a book, listen to a podcast, go for a long walk, etc. And on weekends try to make it a point to connect with friends or focus on personal hobbies. Make sure you're taking care of yourself and your mindset, make sure you're content, and everything else will fall into place.
This whole older generations worked so much harder is Boomer BS. No one was slaving 100 hours a week in high finance 40-50 years ago, they practically couldn't they didn't have the tech. Facts don't really care about boomer feelings and they're clear, people work more now for less than they received before. Which makes sense... because capitalism and globalization always benefit the owners of ... capital... not labourers.
Is grinding away worth it? Who knows, it's a bet like everything else. All I know is you probably won't be upset you spent more time with friends/family vs. grinding away for 100 hrs a week. But what do I know I'm just slavin' away so I'm sure I'm overstating the alternative.
Bro. Lay off the addies.
In short, no, work life balance should be the least of your priorities early in your career. You don't want to work long hours for the sake of it but the name of the game when you're young is getting as much optionality as you can. The jobs that set you up to call the shots later on in your career (as in let YOU, not your employer, not circumstances, choose if you want a less demanding job or continue on a lucrative career path for the employer of choice) are most likely going to involve long hours. If you get burned out as an analyst you can pivot to something less demanding that still pays well. If you've been in a job with cushy hours but hasn't given you meaningful experience or a recognized employer on your resume it is extremely hard to pivot to a better job that will lay the foundation for your career. You will be as I put it, stuck and fucked. This is a very coming phenomenon in say back office where people just stay until they get laid off even though they hate their jobs because their job provides zero transferable and valued skills so they can't leave. It's actually really sad.
Holy shit dude, are you that desperate for validation?
Contrarian here, in the 45-50 hour / week club. + CFA studying in own time but that doesn't count. In the past few years since graduating I've learned to ski and snowboard, made many strong friendships, started playing golf, got my handicap under 20 playing golf, and maintained what I would say is a pretty good level fitness. And on top of all that, I get to spend plenty of time with a chick who means the world to me. Not sure I would've been able to do all of that had I gone down other paths.
Sure, I definitely don't have the disposable income many on this site do.. but.. I cover my expenses comfortably and more than that I have the time to do pretty much whatever I want to do, whenever I want to do it (apart from heli skiing every weekend). Girlfriend wants to take a long weekend and go camping in Yosemite or Big Sur, sure why not. Buddies want to take a week to go to Jackson Hole, I'm there. Backpack a couple weeks in Thailand, check. Add in more weekend trips than I can count.. lot of quality evenings spent with the significant other.. and I'm pretty (completely?) content.
Might not work for the majority here, but different strokes for different folks. Y'all might grind your life away and hey more power to you if you choose that path.. but, there will come a time where the marginal dollar earned has a diminishing return and the stress + time commitment required just might not be worth it.
This (as well). +SB
Different strokes for different folks. The grass is always greener on the other side.
Personally I have traveled to a ton of places, done a bunch of stuff, made lots of great friends etc. That took time, energy and effort. And that's time I had because I was not grinding 100 hour weeks. What was the price of that? Frankly, it was making less money. A lot less money. Are there times when I look at some of my peers from college who are/were no smarter or accomplished than I was, who are MD/Partner/Sr. PM and minting it that I am envious and re-consider my decisions? ABSOLUTELY.
But them I talk to them and see most of them have done the exact same thing since college, or subtle variations of it. They haven't left their geography in years unless it's to some 2 day conference in London or Tokyo or a harried roadshow before flying back and few have lifelong friends or interests from post college/MBA. And this is nothing against them. They just have not had the TIME to develop those relationships or interests or travel places. Some of them are happy as clams and that's seriously awesome. Some of them are lonely and literally don't know how to talk about anything but work, the odd sports things or reminisce about college. But I have realized that the IB/PE whatever grind was not for me. And that's cool too.
A bit off topic but responding to some above about MDs and working hours...Those of you who think MDs have it easy since they don't work as many hours etc, need to think really hard. Why? Because once you are an MD, you HAVE to produce PnL (ie generate revenue/close deals) for the bank. Doing excel, or running execution is not enough. Not only is the competition usually fierce since IB services are a commodity and corporates/sponsors/other clients know it, but there will also be pressure at the bank from others who want to take said MD's job, or be his/her boss or whatever. All of this while trying to support the family the MD (may have), like paying a mortgage, putting kids through school etc and watching your back for snakes internally AND trying to read the tea leaves of upper management (and hopefully having some sponsors up there and hoping they are well positioned)... Are there MDs that live off of the brand name of the bank? Yep. More than one can count. But that means the bank knows that too and it means that the MD is probably expendable. Not every MD is a BSD (those days are generally over and have been for years)...
So combine frequent travel, family pressures, work pressure and internal politics...not to mention market pressures... If markets tank and clients don't do deals and you aren't well connected/politicked and/or a super star erm, good luck. So you are out of a job, that you never really liked anyhow. You have a lot of expense line items and you are seen by many as "too senior" or "too expensive" to make a jump. Or have to move down market. Or. Or.. Bank decides to cut banking as a business significantly and move into asset management? Your sponsors in upper management are gone or can't protect you. Ooops.
Apologies for the ramble.
I personally just want a cushy 9-5 job after college. I wouldn’t want to waste my prime years just to enjoy my money later on. You can’t even get your dick up or stand up without hurting your knee after you’re 40+
Given the current environment I don’t think cushy 9-5 jobs are hiring anymore.
Also ER is far from 9-5...
I'll start by saying that my philosophy on this matter is "to each his own."
I think the answer to OP's question depends on how OP wants to live his life. In the case of the best answer, that commenter seems very satisfied with his life, having gone a different route than IB. In the case of most others on this site who do opt for the long hours in banking, satisfaction may come in other forms, and perhaps some find appeal in that type of lifestyle or they enjoy a cushy position a little later down the road after the initial grind. Whatever you choose, as long as you are content with it, I would consider it to be a successful choice.
The only thing I would add that bothers me is when people take a very near-sighted view of things and choose to party/waste away their early years. No, I'm not condemning parties, socializing or having fun. I just disagree with people who cash in up front and then get off on the wrong foot. You are in your early twenties, which means you are in your prime -- this is the peak point in your life to increase knowledge, experience and relationships. My approach has always been to grind now, and take my foot off the gas to enjoy life at a slower pace later, but again, to each his own.
I'll hit it from both sides of your question since I've experienced both. But I think the order that you experience them in matters for a lot of reasons I won't elaborate on unless asked.
Sacrifice side: Straight out of university I was put under a rainmaker (he made between 2-3m a year) and was working 70-90hrs on average with high demands. Everyone in the office drove a sports car or luxury vehicle (all the way up to high end Bentley) while I took the train to work. Grinded and it fucking sucked. But through watching the rainmaker I learned how to communicate, persuade and act around people of importance. Those skills opens doors for a lifetime.
Balance side: I now casually work 30-60 hours a week - based on my preference - doing data analytics. I earn between 125k - 250k and have the most relaxed life I've ever had. I can honestly say I would not have the skills (mostly soft but some hard) to be where I am now if I did not endure the front end sacrifice. I compare my experience, while rare, to folks who did not make front-end sacrifice and they generally make average incomes, living average lives with expected trajectories. Do you want that? Happy for you if you do but that's not for me.
To directly answer the question: No, it is not worth the balance at the early stage. Why would it be? You have no money or skills (read: optionality) and you have a mediocre trajectory if you don't build those with your youthful energy. You can choose your own adventure, a better adventure, later. I'd personally rather choose which doors I want to walk through than be limited to what I have to walk for any number of reasons.
Obviously I value optionality. It also helps that my bet paid off - I still have energy and feel like I can live the life I sacrificed for. However, I admit my view may be a prime example of survivorship bias. I can't imagine I'd say the same thing if I sacrificed and didn't get a positive pay out.
Completely agree. This generation has become insanely soft with social media promoting a bunch of BS about self-care. Of course you have to find balance and prioritize mental health, but that doesn't mean you can just become a bum satisfied with working 40 hours a week at 22 but still expecting to become partner at your firm or CEO of the next hotshot startup.
Life is very binary. You can either go all out and work as hard as you can to achieve the goals you set for yourself. Or you can compromise and decide to prioritize other things in life and make work a small fraction. If you try to go somewhere in the middle, you screw yourself over because you'll never be as successful as the people going all out or as happy as the people who decided to pursue other things in life. You're stuck in a purgatory getting the worst of both worlds. There's nothing wrong with either approach: going all out with work or looking for other things in life. What irritates me are the people who feel entitled to both: few hours working and the ability to reach their ambitious goals.
Ridiculously over-simplified.
I think it depends on how you grew up... My family worked hard, but didn't make a lot of money and struggled at some points. I want to be in a position where I am able to give back without thinking about how I am going to pay next month's bills. So I am willing to sacrifice my time for a better lifestyle. It's all about perspective.