I am a senior in high school and recently accepted into IU Kelley. I want to go into investment banking but I am worried about backup plans if I don't get into the Kelley IB workshop. I know the workshop is pretty competitive, so if I weren't accepted into it, what would a plan B and C be?
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Double major in CS & Finance and you’ll be fine. Fuck workshops.
If I were you I wouldn't base my college decision purely on IB prospects. It's fine if that's one factor but keep in mind sooo much can change for you over the next couple of years. As for your question, do some research on LinkedIn and check out the placement of non-IBW Kelley grads - should probably give you a decent idea of what other routes (if any) exist.
Try to transfer to a target if you can't get into IBW. Even if you get into IBW, still try to transfer to a target.
If you're Indian don't forget to claim your African heritage and declare yourself as a diversity candidate!
Came here to make this joke lol
Current IU Kelley senior. Wasnt in the workshop or seminar, got a MM role in a pretty good group. Workshop doesn’t matter as much anymore given the kids that do get in are liars and sex offenders
Shoutout PJT RSSG
How many hooks up it takes to get recommended for RSSG
vouch^. IU is hell, workshop kids are weird. they all wish they got into michigan / uva / berkeley
Did you do anything to make your resume look better not being in the workshop? Like join clubs and stuff
I joined finance clubs, got leadership positions in volunteer-oriented organizations, and was a TA and a peer coach. You still have to make yourself an attractive candidate by all measures and some banks like Perella and Moelis exclusively take from the workshop, so just skip recruiting for those, but other than that you honestly have as good a shot as anyone else. Just a networking game.
Current Student at Kelley - I would say that if you don't have a 3.9+ GPA after the first semester, if you are not in "feeder clubs," and if you are not a diversity candidate, I would prepare transfer apps for other schools as now around 600+ kids apply for 60 spots in the IBW, 20 spots in the Private equity workshop and 30 spots in this investment banking seminar thing that is trash and doesn't help anyone anyways. Also, getting in is massively political with the selection process, where the selection team picks people who are their friends rather than in a meritocratic way, but they put up some act like it is fair, which is pretty demoralizing and causes them to miss out on kids who would we good candidates.
Also, recruiting outside the workshop is pretty difficult as IU bankers don't respond to nonworkshop kids' emails.
Thanks for the insight. What are the feeder clubs? I assume the IB club and business frat?
Best are ECMG, PMC, and FIR for IB. Just make sure you start reading the markets, it’s absolutely crucial you get into these first semester freshman year because second semester applications are way more competitive. Everyone’s learning curve picks up like crazy and many of the kids who don’t get the clubs have a chip on their back. Also, just be eager to learn and be sociable. No one likes a know it all or someone who makes the interviews awkward.
heavy on bankers not responding to nonworkshop kids..
.
Still waiting to hear but I applied to Berkeley, Umich, Texas, BU, Miami, northeastern, UW, penn state
I know a few friends from HS that went there, grinded pretty hard, but couldn't crack the workshop. A few of these folks were in the feeder clubs, frats, etc. It's such a massive risk to take that you'll get into the workshop, and it's one I couldn't justify taking. I chose our East Coast state school (you can probably guess which one, given how many kids from my state go to IU), and I'm in a far better spot for recruiting than they are. These guys are still hard workers and will probably still walk away with an offer, but it's hard.
At most targets, you are faced with competition, but there's a proportional amount of probable opportunity within the grasp of your palms. At most nontargets, you don't get as much internal competition, but there's a proportional discount on the opportunities available. My take is that at Kelley, the ratio is wonky. You have a crazy amount of internal competition, but the EV of opportunities, when considering your odds of hitting the workshop, just aren't aligned with it. It's a nontarget on steroids where you have to compete like a target school without target school opportunities for most folks.
Completely agree with your 2nd paragraph
Thanks for that insight. Still haven't got my decision letters from most my schools, but in your opinion if I had to choose between IU and say an instate school (California) like SDSU or UCI. What would you choose? I know at most California schools besides Berkeley breaking into IB is a long shot, but there are still other finance careers.
If you really want NYC, then it's worth it to take the gamble at Kelley. But if you're fine/happy/wanting to be in SF or LA, then go to a cali school.
jersey represent
Balls
Thanks for the comment. Do you know, if I were to go to Kelley and not get into IBW, how good is the curriculum for other finance jobs like corporate finance or insurance?
I would say very good - Kelley has a huge alum network and getting any job imo is possible
Never go to a school where you have to go to a “workshop” to be considered by banking firms. Embarrassing
Current Kelley Junior in the Investment Banking Network - Please do not make your decision of going to IU entirely on making it to the IBW. As others said, it is too risky and I didn’t factor much into it (I was actually pretty keen on equity research but things change during your frsh yr)
As per IB opportunities w/o the IBW, the seminar (IBS) gives ample of opportunities but can’t recruit for Moelis. With the introduction of the private equity workshop (PEW), the recruiting game will be different if you head to IU. Even if you’re not in the IBN, you can still recruit for IB/Buy side roles. Ik a few people who landed Wells, TD, and a few boutique firms just because they grinded their ass. It’s possible but it will be a grind. As someone said, IU is a non-target on steroids but if you were in a competitive hs environment, it wouldn’t be a huge adjustment (speaking from experience)
My honest advice, see what you want out of college. Yes, it will be a grind but factor in the environment, people, location, and cost of choosing college. Basing your decision off of career prospects as a high school senior pigeonholed yourself - it’s always better to be in a place that gives you as much ample opportunities as possible.
Don’t miss the TTS sessions or else the wonderful, powerful LT will find you prima facie, in violation of Clauses 2, 3 and 4 of the duly signed contract 🤡
how’s this even remotely related to the comment?
I think many people on this thread are confusing why many people go to Kelley. Of course, financial considerations matter as well, but I would say the main reason people come to Kelley is because they were rejected from many target/semitarget schools, and have the choice between (a) Kelley, and (b) schools that are more non-target. They realize that Kelley workshops can give them very strong recruiting prospects if they grind for a couple of years --a sort of "call option"-- and go there. However, the concentration of these types of a students naturally elicits more competition, and some don't make the cut.
With this in mind, I probably wouldn't recommend Kelley if you get into a better school and can pay for it - it's really that simple. However, Kelley is a great option for anyone else, as you realistically have nothing to lose (non-workshop kids still get recruitment looks), and a ton to gain.
Also:
I would mainly attribute non-acceptances to the workshop-type programs for two reasons: (a) treating workshop applications as "just a job" and not making personal connections/friendships with older students, or (b) not participating in "feeder" clubs/activities during freshman year and waltzing into sophomore year expecting the world. Nothing against the kids who don't do these things, there are just too many great sophomores that do.
At the same time, I would caution against associating the "workshop" politics solely with Kelley. Many schools, not just Kelley, have competitive IB clubs that control recruitment processes/pipelines for certain banks.
Appreciate this point of view a lot. I'm not expecting to much from Michigan, Texas, and the other target schools I applied to. If IU was my only option for IB but I also got into something like UCI or SDSU, would you choose IU still for IB or one of my state schools for some other field in finance?
I think this question is all about what you see in yourself and what you want to do. Since I don't know you, I would recommend going to a great in-state school and saving money - this is the safe and prudent move.
But again, only you know yourself. If you're ready to come to campus and do whatever it takes to get a good GPA (imo this is more about working "smart" than working hard), become involved with clubs, and eventually pursue a high finance career, you should consider this option too. Still, you should fully acknowledge that this is a risky decision and only you can mitigate this risk.
Also, change your username.
Are you talking about south dakota state univ?
Non-workshop member that got Superdays at MMs, BBs, and a MF. I'd make the argument that if you're smart then Kelley is better since its easier to be top of your class which is a necessity at any top school. Look guys, IB is difficult and this website makes it seem way too clear cut based off of an applicant's background. Kelley def has hardos but its not much diff than other schools too. Top students are gonna be weirdly competitive, it's something that is always gonna be around. Out of 600 kids that apply to the IBW, 150 placed out of all 3 workshops. 25% isn't bad esp since out of those 600 obv there's gonna be some duds. This also doesnt include the IMW, which sends a crazy amount of kids to places for ER, Private Banking, Sales and Trading, etc..
IU is great for accounting, marketing, international business, supply chain, and many people come for that and don't all recruit IBW. You think every Kelley sorority girl is sweating for IB? Bar scene is also on top. Regardless, I believe that on a relative basis, the job is what matters at the end of the day. If you end up getting a top job at at BB, EB, MM, or wherever, partied hard, and paid less than your incoming IB cohort you'd think you won. If you go with big dreams, grind, get screwed from recruiting, and didn't have a social life obv you're gonna be bitter.
This helps a lot thank you
An IU workshop kid landed himself in the NY Post so we r rlly on the map as of late
Kid had a psychotic break. Could have been from any school. Luigi Mangione went to Penn. Are all Wharton kids murderers?
Luigi mangione i don’t think was in Wharton just regular penn
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