Every networking call I get on - 1st call we are having and the 1st question they have for me after I walk them through my 10 years in the industry is “where is recruiting at / how can I get involved?”
Really? That’s your first question for the call? Nothing about my thoughts on the job, why I stayed instead of PE, the most challenging / interesting parts? It’s just off putting and shows they can’t sell and don’t know the game. You’re supposed to act like you’re genuinely interested in a person’s perspectives and backgrounds at least a little (would argue you actually should be interested if you want to do the job).
When I was a cold emailer and networker as a non target sophomore I crushed the asking about people and getting them talking about themselves. People love to talk about themselves - do you students not know that yet?
It makes me not want to refer you at all. Look, I get the game, we chat and I pass your resume on, but you students are totally skipping the first part and making it painful to want to help you. Just makes me disinterested.
Ask questions, show interest! You are vying for what is a fundamentally sales & people business!
Rambling thoughts as I sit on the toilet.
Decline of social skills, what can you do
This is the generation of kids who got to hit their parents and curse them out at 7. The iPad baby syndrome will only become worse.
nah, people intentionally decide not to waste precious time. it's silly to assume that they don't waste time because they can't due to lack of social skills.
First, building a rapport with someone you may be interviewing with or could be part of the decision team is not wasted time.
Second, what is the value of 15 to 20 minutes to chat for a 22-year old with no kids and practically zero responsibilies? Close to nothing.
Probably the worst take on this forum I've seen in a while.
People like to deal with people. Learn some basic EQ.
Covid deprived them of 2 years of school/college socialising tbf
Good point, prob big cause
The last few I’ve taken were pretty bad. It’s a trend. Kids not owning the process and trying to make me send a calendar invite and have me call them. Then when we get on a call it’s lazy, unprepared and misguided. Asking me basic questions you can easily find on google or ChatGPT. They all think one call = immediate internship offer. Zero follow up or attempts at connecting further. It’s making me want to stop taking calls altogether, complete waste of time.
this resonates with me. i've had a few cold e-mail me and then proceed to tell me they are super busy and ask to speak on weekends and ask me to send out the calendar invites. then we get on the call and they proceed to ask me to introduce them to another group lol. i've stopped taking cold e-mails now.
What boxes would a kid with a low gpa have to check with you networking wise for a referral.
None - you not in the game with a low gpa
^Exhibit A
The Harvard kids are the worst, weird and massive egos.
Most act like they’re a gift to your company and you need to convince them to join.
Like dude, we can toss a stack of resumes in the air and the first one we pick up will have a 3.8+ from a top 15 school. No one has time to deal with shit egos.
From what I've noticed chatting some of the new kids is that you can 100% tell who is part of top student clubs on campus that train them and which dont (of course with some outliers). That being said I've started to see trends on the best candidates for my office and certain clubs at their schools. COVID definelty plays a huge role in this wider trend as others have said.
State kid hardos are the best. Went to an Ivy but will 100% take more calls from competitive state club kids over my Dartmouth/Columbia/UChicago kids. Why? Because what all I get from these students are entitlement and shitty technical understanding.
dont generalize
I'm curious what the traits are that you're seeing in club kids that you don't see in the non-club kids? Is it just technical ability, or soft skills like being communicative and well-spoken?
Have heard many say that if you don't get into the competitive clubs at these schools that you're almost a non-candidate, and I'm wondering what makes that separation. I'm sure any skill can be learnt, it's just guidance is it not?
They are hungrier and that is reflected in many aspects.
ive noticed this too from (a lack of better words) ethnic kids. white rich ones are still very polished
Unfortunately, hard to disagree that generally white rich kids are more polished.
Completely disagree. Plenty of rich white kids or fratbros that try to name drop their connections (“Do you know X, he’s the head of the firm and a family friend”) with zero preparation of technicals or research into the firm they’re interviewing. Usually the foreigners are polite / polished but have varying visa situations that lead to lower hit rates (varying English skills though).
In general though, huge decline in professionalism (not even a follow-up email, really?) across the board. I can’t tell if COVID or just TikTok, but it’s embarrassing to see the lack of decorum. One more email without even basic letter formatting and I’m gonna lose it on these kids
Damn every comment you make is negative. Take a vacay.
I think those frat bros have sufficiently gotten savvy enough to not do those things. At least, that's what I've felt while speaking with the type of kids from my alma. However, I overheard many of those out of touch things while in school.
Definitely don't think its a race thing and more of a class/upbringing. I know plenty of "ethnic" kids that are just as if not more polished than white kids.
Its more of an upbringing thing, usually the ethnic kids will have really good technicals and social skills they just dont have the formality/etiquette because its simply a new world for them.
Im sure first gen white kids deal with the same issue. As an ethnic kid growing up and breaking into corporate america, it def takes a while to get use to all the quirks of what simply being a professional is. Not work wise but as a person
wdym first gen WASP kids? no anglo-saxon protestant kid from london/liverpool/manchester etc is going to "deal with the same issue" if they interview in the US.
I genuinely wonder if some of these kids are having a good time in college because the lack of social skills is jaw dropping
Tbh I did not have a good time in college for this particular reason. Covid lockdowns completely killed any sense of social development I had for my first two years of college. I don't feel I've fully recovered from this yet, and I'm guessing some other students are on the same boat. Socializing is just hard... I feel like I have to put in an extra effort to be able to talk to strangers for a sustained period.
Dude it cannot be that bad... how about the other 18 years of your life you had to socialize/learn social skill BEFORE college?
You have two options:
1) work on it and put yourself out there in uncomfortable situations and force more socialization in your life
2) Accept your current reality and given up, which will only lead to further deterioration of these skills, limit your future potential and possibly end in depression and/or loneliness.
Some kids really have to step it up, I've had multiple students just skip our scheduled call and that's just unacceptable. It looks bad on you and your university, and really makes me not want to help the next kid who reaches out.
This is so true and becoming more common. A lot of people going into banking today lack social skills — but it makes sense when you look at what banks actually value. In IBD, soft skills are deprioritized compared to roles like S&T or Wealth where relationship-building is core to the job.
Banks say they want well-rounded analysts, but they mostly reward technical ability, work ethic, and deference to hierarchy. Plus, analysts are often hired by people just like them — intense, hyper-focused, and not always the most socially polished.
It’s a pipeline and culture issue more than anything.
So, you are upset because people don't waste your time on something they don't care about.
Maybe old people. Younger generation would rather do something fun instead, like playing videogames, watching movies/series, listening to music, going out. If you think about it, there are a lot of better ways to spend your time than yapping about yourself to someone who doesn't care about you.
New generation of businessmen will prefer to work with someone who doesn't like yapping and instead spends time efficiently and then enjoys free time. So they will pass on you once you waste a few hours of their time talking about nothing, trying to throw facade. And they'll hire someone who gets straight to business without wasting anyone's time. That's what I would do if I was a client looking for potential bankers / consultants, and I'm not even old.
Del
I am 100% sure you’re not American, coming from an international. What you said does not apply at all to American work culture as I’ve seen it.
well, you'll be surprised how many non americans are working in management in US companies, especially in NYC and California, which is where you wanna sell your services.
plus, as OP noted and everybody here agreed, it's the general trend with the younger generation that they don't like wasting time on social games. so this generation will replace older folks whose only "skill" is playing politics, and then the bankers and consultants who cut to the chase without wasting time will be picked more than those who only know how to yap.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how life works. Hopefully you are just young and will learn with time.
Your entire premise is so off. I don’t have to get on the phone with anyone, I don’t have to even answer a cold email. This isn’t a set business meeting between two companies doing business together, this is a student vying for an internship competing against 1000’s of other candidates and asking me for a favor refer them.
So I should just refer whoever the first person is that asks me for it because they “cut to the chase” before the other student? Lol idk why I’m even responding to your comment, it’s absurd to think you shouldn’t get to know someone before asking THEM to help you. It isn’t “bullshitting” it’s called being a functioning human
well, you see their profile. if they have good education and good experience, what else do you need to refer them? referrals are just an outdated system in IB. they shouldn't even be a thing. but since they are a thing, candidates have to ask for them, even if they have good profiles and deserve an interview without your referral.
like, if someone asks you to tell them about your typical day as a banker, does it really make them more worthy of a referral?
So many gen zs got fired over this attitude, they won’t be in a position to hire you lol
Preach, monkey man! 🙌
Two sides to this.
On the one hand, its definitely true that newer generations are lacking the ability to play the social game and dance.
On the other, you seem a bit upset that a college student didn’t butter you up and listen to your 10 years of experience that you both know he doesn’t give a shit about. No answer you can give to “why PE, what made you stay in the industry, what’s the most exciting deal you’ve worked on” isn’t something he can’t Google within five minutes.
As you’ve said, you both know you’re there to get a referral and if you really are this hung up that you’re not receiving a certain amount of affirmation from someone who’s practically still a child, that’s more of a you problem. A better approach to these networking calls is flipping the script and asking them what they know. See if they really do want it and they’ve taken those five minutes to Google about the industry and firm. If they sound like they know their stuff, forward them on. That way, you get prospects who are genuinely hungry and are proactive in trying to get into the industry, rather than just those who’ll sit and listen and make you feel good about talking about yourself.
Sounds like the second.
Yep and that is exactly what I did - I asked them questions the whole call about themselves and helped them out and gave them advice.
Making a post about it on WSO on the toilet does not mean it got to me the way you think it did, literally forgot about this until I opened the app two days later.
It’s not a coping thing where I NEED to talk about myself, it’s a lack of social skills from the other side. Look idgaf I still helped them, but trying to pin that back on the person taking their call is bizarre. That’s how you treated your networking calls? It’s called being a friendly, functioning person
I also think everyone’s career paths are unique and interesting. Please show me the place where you can “find that within 5 min of googling” - everyone’s story is now online?
OK, value driver master. Did you major in art history by any chance like many consultants from my school? The point of this thread is not highlighting the necessity of making a banker feel better but the lack of good attitude and preparedness. I'm sure you would be very satisfied if a kid asked you whether PPT making can really help you rise to a CEO of F500 or asking if you can become the next Mark Cuban since you are working at Bain.
Wtf is this supposed to be?
I am genuinely shocked a poster that thinks everything about a person’s opinions and background can be “found within 5 min of googling” got this many upvotes. Bro that’s actually wild to me. Sign off the times I guess… networking isn’t asking Chat GPT prompts
I'll disagree with your second point. OP can do whatever he wants on these calls. If OP wanted to talk about Yankees Baseball for thirty-minutes, the prospect calling should try their absolute damnedest to relate to Yankees Baseball and connect with OP. People do business (i.e. refer you) with people they like. If OP doesn't like the prospect, OP is unlikely to do business with the prospect.
Prospects - Read "How to win friends and influence people". Burn the 10 rules into the back of your subconscious. Cold calling is sales. Sales is influencing. This skill is not innate and prospects (really, all business professionals) need practice to develop these skills.
agree here. I cover a niche subvertical and when someone tells me on these calls, i never thought your industry that way but it sounds cool when you talk about it, ends up being a 10/10 referral for me
Same as it ever was
No social skills = no pass thru
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