Lazard vs. Greenhill vs. PWP NYC offers for 2021 SA
I know there are other threads about this but wanted a fresh perspective. In a bit of a unique position--current sophomore at a semi/non-target and am very lucky to have offers from 2 of these 3 places due to accelerated/diversity recruiting: PWP, Greenhill and Lazard for the 2021 SA roles, all for M&A in new york. I know there are other threads regarding this but wanted an update for the outlook of these EBs going forward. I don't think I can accelerate interviews for GS/MS/JPM, and I was rejected at other BBs I applied to (Citi + Barclays early). Evercore has been ghosting me but that interview could've gone better.
Anyway, wanted to ask about recent exits for these places, particularly PWP & GHL because there doesn't seem to be a ton of info of late. LAZ/GHL also seems to have dwindled a bit lately, is this true? And PWP seems to be on the come up but still not sure about exit opportunities. I'm still not 100% sure on what I want to do after ibanking, but I'm pretty sure I see myself doing private equity/possibly growth equity at a MF or UMM shop. Which of these places has the best exit opps and future as a firm? Again, can't accelerate recruiting at the other BBs and I feel like it would be dumb to renege on any of these places, even for MS/JPM/GS. Any thoughts/opinions/concerns are welcome.
Problem is I need to decide within the next 2 weeks due to one of the offers expiring. Any thoughts/opinions/concerns are welcome.
laz or pwp, go with culture
Laz
PWP . . . .
any explanation for this
I'm going to get MS regardless no matter how objective I am. This forum is a joke, so sorry I'm not going to waste my time even though you are legitimately looking for help. Maybe get rid of the trolls and I come back. But these are objective overall rankings.
Congrats on the offers. In the end, these are all great places to end up. I can’t comment personally on these EBs, but I faced a similar decision and ended up choosing based mostly on fit which I don’t regret. Also consider the differences between the internships, would you prefer a generalist experience or to work in a specific group? Good luck!
appreciate it. Yea I feel like I vibed better with one of the places, just in terms of speaking with the people that interviewed me. I'm going to try and schedule chats with more people at each firm + talk to alumni (except one firm doesn't have alumni), so we'll see.
Definitely PWP or Lazard over Greenhill. Which one do you not have an offer from, as you mentioned 2 of the 3?
Could you explain your reasoning for that? Talking to lazard alums seems like the dealflow is strong, but analyst classes are bigger than at GHL/PWP. Is this notion true or
Both Lazard and PWP are great firms to be at. Dealflow varies from location to location and group to group, but on an overall basis would say that Lazard has stronger dealflow and slightly stronger exits. PWP does have a more laid back culture, whereas Lazard can definitely come off as more uptight. In general, Greenhill is no longer is in the same league as the two (with the exception of a couple legacy relationships they have in HC and other industries).
PWP and Lazard analyst classes are both easily twice the size of GHL's, definitely Lazard is not smaller than GHL.
Also an incoming for Summer 2021, so I cannot comment too much on deal flow / exits, but during my recruiting process, I was a very big fan of PWP & Lazard. Lazard's culture seems a bit more uptight / preppy, also it has the reputation for being a sweatier shop / having less pay. PWP's people seem very very geniune, and I was attracted in particular to its fintech desk. Some of my good friends are returning to PWP for FT, and they have nothing but amazing things to say.
Lazard recently bumped their pay to be more in line with the standard EB pay FWIW
Lazard is still ahead of PWP in exits and perception, but you will make marginally more at PWP.
also curious as to buyside exit opps for a Lazard/PWP versus a Citi/Barclays... I know its obviously group dependent to an extent, but any general thoughts?
Definitely group-dependent. All will give you good exit opps unless you’re in a really crappy group, but I’d argue that each bank has a specific “group” that will be really good for each opportunity you’re looking for. If you’re looking to exit into a distressed debt fund, you can’t argue about the quality of candidates that come from Lazard’s RX group. Bulge brackets will give you certain experiences you can’t get at independent advisors, so if you’re in a really good group (Barclays has historically been well-known for their P&U group after buying out Lehman Brothers, they also have a good sponsors group) then you’ll be fine at most PE firms you try to go to, but the opportunity might be group-specific (I.e. recruiting into a P&U group rather than having a generalist role). If you had offers from all of these banks and you’re picking based on exits, I’d say that you should instead pick based on culture unless you’re really set on a specific opportunity, like a distressed debt fund.
Lazard is the much more powerful name and while PWP is indeed on the rise and Lazard isn't the same bank as it was in the 80s, my buddies there have had excellent exit opportunities.
Had offers from two out of the three places you listed in the past, and talked to people from both shops. Lazard has legacy brand name+ probably best exits out of the three, but culture seems pretty bad/sweatshop type. PWP's culture stands out as being the best IMO as everyone there genuinely seems to appreciate it, senior people care about the analysts and there is a lot of social events throughout the summer/FT. They do some long term client relationship work (strategy consulting type) esp. in consumer. Some MF exits here (mostly diversity candidates though) so expected return is likely MM/UMM think Audax/BC type shops. Strongest teams are probably Healthcare and RX (energy focused). GHL M&A seems to be on the decline, but RX is ramping up fast with Augustine. Culture in M&A seems laid back but RX is a sweatshop, recent exits from RX have been good though. Out of the three, I'd say Lazard for marginally better exits, PWP for culture.
would take PWP over Laz / GHL. Higher pay, much better culture and very good exit opps. Again, no matter which firm you choose, you will get MF / UMM interview opps but your “exit” is dependent on how good of a candidate you are. No MF is taking you just because you come from Laz - you have to prove yourself
Seconded, interned at one of the above shops and this is largely on point
aren't exits also related to dealflow per analyst? just trying to rationalize who to pick.
that’s true to some extent. if you’re doing on cycle, no one has “deal experience”. by the time off cycle rolls around, I can almost guarantee you will have done at least a couple deals to discuss (no matter which shop). so really, it comes down to things like culture, pay, senior relationship development, etc., which from what I’ve seen, PWP is better
keep in mind, PWP’s class size is something like 25-30, which is much smaller than LAZ. same thing with GHL (even smaller than PWP). you will likely have a much better experience working at a firm with smaller class sizes as you’ll have better interactions with seniors, etc.
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This is totally wrong. Moelis is actually the worst culture on the street, Lazard is very group dependent but on the whole the worst group at Laz is probably still better hours than Moelis.
Mind elaborating a bit more on why Moelis has the worst culture?
Ok “PE - Other”
No one is pointing out that Lazard is a much better RX name than either of the other two, and the M&A teams at Lazard end up working on RX deals as well, often doing valuation and getting pretty involved. If you have a generalist offer in NYC you can also get into RX which will likely be a bigger group going forward. At this point in the cycle choosing the better RX name is probably the way to go if you want to get as much deal experience as possible.
Also would go with Lazard. Reputation took a dip '07-'16 or so due to some rainmaker MDs leaving and sweatshop rep, but has come back strong. Hours are better in some groups now (still kinda brutal in others) and deal flow is very strong for most groups. Friend there is grinding, but loves the people in his group and they have a pretty laid-back culture. RX is the strongest of the 3. Overall, the best exit-ops compared to your other offers, too. Not just for PE, but the greater name recognition makes it easier to recruit for other fields e.g. tech, VC, etc. Your decision will become tougher and more group-dependent if you hear back from EVR.
I would probably discount GHL and focus on PWP and Lazard. GHL is declining, and while they're still a great name with great placements, I'd focus on the other two. People rank Lazard as the better of the two and the more prestigious of the two. I agree, but the differences are so granular when comparing two banks of this caliber. Ultimately I'd say pick whichever you like best. Personally, I'd choose PWP because they it's a smaller firm, pay is great (although people in the comments have said Lazard has bumped theirs up too), and the people I've spoken with at PWP I got along with better than at Lazard. Also PWP will get you into HBS if you want to get your MBA.
Laz or PWP - go with the better fit. Laz if you’re stuffy, PWP if you’re laid back. Congrats btw.
Agree he/she should choose between those 2, but think vibe is really group-dependent. Know people at PWP looking to lateral because their groups are super intense/stuffy. Friend is in a super chill group at Laz... Worth trying to get a read on the people you might be working with
That’s true, but they won’t know their group going into a summer stint at either shop. So I’d pick the overall better one.
Go with Lazard.
Of all industry groups at the three combined firms (non-RX), PWP Tech and Healthcare would be #1 and #2.
Ok “prospect”, what are you basing this on? Culture? Because if you’re using deal flow as a metric this is measurably false.
PWP has a great tech practice and MS Infrastructure and PayPal-Honey we’re great deals. Similarly strong, Laz has represented CBS, Google, Intel, and Visa in the past year on acquisitions.
I definitely don’t think PWP’s tech practice is measurably better than Laz’s and I wouldn’t even say tech is the best coverage group at Laz. So I would say you’re wrong.
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