LevFin GS vs JPM vs DB vs UBS
If you were given an offer from those 4 LevFin groups, which would you choose? and why?
Also, what are the best LevFin sector specializations for GS and JPM? (best WLB, deal exposure, etc.)
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Based on the highest ranked content on WSO, here's a detailed comparison and insights on LevFin groups at GS, JPM, DB, and UBS:
Choosing Between GS, JPM, DB, and UBS LevFin Groups:
JPMorgan (JPM)
Goldman Sachs (GS)
Deutsche Bank (DB)
UBS
Best LevFin Sector Specializations for GS and JPM:
Goldman Sachs (GS)
JPMorgan (JPM)
Conclusion:
If you need more specific details or have further questions, feel free to ask!
Sources: Lev Fin Outlook & Best Groups 2020, LevFin WLB-focused Exits and Other Questions, JPM Lev Fin vs. BAML Lev Fin, Best Investment Banks, BB Leveraged Finance
Also very interested
Going through all comments saying they’re interested - only an analyst in the space but pretty easy to tell that it’s JPM > GS > UBS & DB.
Also interested. How does Lev Fin think about relative value?
Going through all comments saying they’re interested - only an analyst in the space but pretty easy to tell that it’s JPM > GS > UBS & DB.
Rel Val - name of the game. Look at similar companies in terms of industry, sources of revenue / costs, etc. then look at ratings (most important part of relative value). Find these companies with same ratings, look at how the TLBs/Bonds are trading, and that should give you an idea about pricing. Obviously a lot more than that but…
GS for resources, deal flow, development and network
JPM for breadth of transactions
UBS & DB for exit ops
Is it the case for US or UK?
US
Del
DB/JPM. JPM wins for brand but DB wins in terms of learning experience as they play a role in the origination part alongside sector team
DB best legacy Levfin platform on the street
How do I tell which one is the best? League tables mean anything? Because DB is doing poorly on them
No, leauge tables are for all leveraged loans, and not all are built the same nor are all positions in loans the same. Banks get credit for giving any loans not just for being lead-left, so a lot of the banks that get credit do nothing except provide a balance sheet. Only the lead left does origination and syndication. DB has a strong LevFin franchise given the bank, the deal flow at DB is almost completely sponsors/LevFin driven.
UBS: LevFin has PE exits and PC exits are still really good given the firm. I think Sponsors is the better group post-split of the two groups, but LevFin is still the 2nd best group at the firm by quite a lot purely due to volume + deal flow relative to the overall bank. JPM/GS has a good deal flow and network, but it's simply not great for exits comparatively if you look at them and the modeling experience merely is not as vast. It really does come down to DB and UBS, but given UBS currently being higher in global and even NA rankings I' 'd rather be there especially given both bank groups are very similar and both are sponsor-driven banks. The logic is that if you are going to be in banks that are vast majority sponsors and where LevFin drives the bank, you'd rather be at the bigger one of the two.
If the question was best sponsors group, I'd definitely pick JPM over DB/UBS(also GS but their sponsor's team is basically just seniors) easily, but since the question is for purely LevFin I'd rather take the worse overall brand for a better group and exits.
Thank you that's very helpful.
Also I heard that CS had a very good LevFin practice, and that UBS was quite weak and too risk averse to excel in the field.
Now that they merged, do you know whether the CS LevFin is being taken apart or whether it now became the dominant model for UBS?
And from what you said, I understand that the Financial Sponsor group is a pure relationship role for both DB and UBS?
UBS financing risk is the dominant one with the caveat that UBS itself already used to play very much in the "hairy"/right above distressed space and so actually is not all that risk-averse relative to other banks(though I bet workers there feel like the firm is too risk-averse as workers at seemingly every bank in LevFin feels). Again as mentioned, these banks are sponsor-driven and both UBS and DB in specific has both publically and internally said they want to grow their business and more specifically sponsor business, which will naturally mean LevFin. I am at DB for example, and we have hired dozens of new coverage MDs with their own relationships as well as a slew of other seniors globally who have made us significantly more competitive in a lot of processes, though naturally winning deals has still not been that great yet it is certainly improving.
As for sponsors, that is not quite correct. I would still rather be in sponsors in both banks, generally across the street: sponsors have better exits and do more PE work. Sponsors aren't a pure relationship group, at least at DB, they are more of a deal QB for sponsor deals, I think a good way to think of sponsors vs LevFin is that in LevFin your main job is the origination and syndication of the CREDIT the sponsor uses(i.e. you handle the credit portion of the transaction). The sponsor's team handles the actual relationship with the sponsor at play and thus serves more as a quasi-coverage role. Sponsors generally exit = PE with some PC but not significantly worse for PC and LevFin = majority PC with a significant downgrade in quality of exits for PE. Hope that is helpful, I think my UBS info should be more or less correct, but am happy to be proven wrong and understand banks do things slightly differently across the street.
I can’t imagine anything worse/more painful than having to choose between db and Jpm LevFin. Like you know you have to choose DB cause it’s consistently their best group and they are top of the street but fuck me man rejecting a Jpm group which isn’t even bad would make me vomit
JPM levfin > db.
Can just move groups after 2 years if ur good at ur job
Categorically false, JPM is one of the hardest banks to move teams in within IB. Also, it's significantly easier to get into a JPM coverage team as a lateral from DB due to deal flow + them knowing DB LevFin is their top group as you will be much more competitive and have more experience. I think DB is pretty clearly better than JPM for a purely LevFin team, same with UBS,
You actually have these offers at hand at the same time?
Bump. Very interested in knowing the opinion for LONDON
Godspeed
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