Low Tier Europe BB NYC vs Mid Tier US BB London
Long time lurker here. Title says it all. Need help!!
Between the two what would you choose?
Assuming one is an international and has the 3-year work visa (OPT) that comes with studying in the US. Starting in UK would mean one has to let go of this benefit.
Should one focus on the bank/deal flow/prestige or the location?
In other words, which is more valuable and beneficial in the short and long term - Being in NYC or starting in a better bank with better deal flow in London?
Note: In NYC, lateraling and trading up to other banks is very difficult in the first 3 years, largely due to visa constraints. There are nuances to this, but this is largely true.
Ah, the age-old question of location versus prestige. It's a tough one, but let's break it down:
Bank/Deal Flow/Prestige: If you're at a better bank with a better deal flow, you're likely to gain more experience and learn a lot more. This could be beneficial in the long run as it could open up more opportunities for you. Plus, the prestige of a well-known bank can certainly add some shine to your resume.
Location: Being in NYC, the financial capital of the world, has its own advantages. You're in the heart of the action, surrounded by some of the biggest players in the industry. This could provide excellent networking opportunities and potentially open up doors for you in the future.
However, you've mentioned that lateraling and trading up to other banks is very difficult in the first 3 years due to visa constraints. This is an important factor to consider. If you're in a lower-tier bank and unable to move, you might find yourself stuck in a less-than-ideal situation.
On the other hand, starting in the UK would mean letting go of the 3-year work visa benefit that comes with studying in the US. But remember, upgrading your student visa to a work-sponsored visa in the UK is not a difficult or expensive process for the employer. Plus, there's a new law that international students enrolling in 2020 and on get a 2-year visa extension after graduating.
In the end, it really comes down to what you value more - the prestige and experience of a better bank or the opportunities that come with being in a prime location like NYC. It's a personal decision and there's no right or wrong answer. Just remember, your 20's should be about having cool experiences. Good luck!
Sources: Top BB in HK or Bottom-tier BB in NY, One day to decide: US or UK?, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/consulting/tier-2-big-city-vs-tier-1-outskirts?customgpt=1
It cracks me up to see how the bot makes it sound like we're comparing NYC with Scranton, PA - when London is arguably the only truly global city on the planet alongside New York. Clearly still a long way to go AI-wise...
OP, as far as your dilemma goes - it depends on what you are optimising for, really.
Cognizant that letting go of the OPT would be a bit of a pity. I agree with another post here that the US BB won't accomodate your transfer request as an analyst 1.
May I ask if you are European and speak any languages? If not, finding a good PE shop will be a very long shot, therefore to the extent buyside exits are what's driving you to the US BB, I would heavily discount this as a factor.
If I were you I would decide purely based on where you want to stay. Being at a Barc/UBS/DB in NYC will still open up tons of avenues for your career notwithstanding the additional complexities of being on a visa. On the other hand, tons of people regularly move from LDN to NYC and viceversa (the two cities are extremely intertwined), so don't necessarily think that leaving the US now would be a complete farewell.
This is very helpful! Loved the thoughtful response! (Also noting Barclays is in the same tier as UBS/DB lol)
No, I dont speak any of the European Languages, so definitely know PE will be tough. But then as an international, PE in the US is a long shot as well (since PE firms rarely sponsor the longer-term H1B visa). So London vs. NYC is the same in this aspect more or less.
To be honest, Letting go of the OPT is what is wieghing heavy on me. I mean ppl come over to study in the states for this specific reason (the OPT), and I am letting it go...
Could you not transfer your offer from the US BB from London to New York?
Thanks. I can try, but I am not sure if it will work out. Is it a common thing to ask for?
I am also concerned for my offer being pulled if I push too hard for asking an NY start!!
Interested in hearing about this as well as I am in a similar situation!
This is not a common thing to ask for, do not do it - they won't accommodate it.
At my bank, at least, you need to be a top AN3 before being considered to be moved to America - it's for top performers only.
What if you happen to be studying in America so you have OPT but hold an offer for London? Do you still advise against it?
NYC, America pay is higher, and can still make a good life in low-tier BB post-MBA.
I get your point. But adjusted for the cost of living, I understand that the pay difference is minimal. Example, Surely in London the house rent cant be $3500, right?
Essentially are you saying that doing IB in NYC is very valuable by itself? Prestige of working in a better bank in London is overshadowed by the NYC location? Thanks a lot!
I am not an MBA btw!!
Ah, either way, I do think the comp and opportunities are higher in the US. It's a bigger market for pure English speakers, the European market wants typically more than just English language speaking skills to go farther while the US market only really requires English. Either way, this is a moot point if both offers aren't in hand.
WLB better In London. You get to take more holidays. Pay is far less, especially as you get up the chain. Income tax is brutal.
NYC pays far more, but hours are tougher and you'll have less holiday. Less income tax.
If I wasn't building a family in the UK then I'd be moving to the US. The pay differential is crazy as you become a senior.
Wow! thanks for this insight!
Do you want to risk not getting picked in H1b 3 years in a row? There’s your answer
Thank you! Very valid point. However, in the event dont get H1B and my OPT exhausts in 3 years, I will probably be moved to London.
The question, then is - which one is better -
3 year NYC experience (at a lower tier BB, though) and then moving to London, vs
starting off in London (in a better BB).
Would caution that. Several internationals I know at my firm aren’t able to move offices due to this market. Definitely not a seamless process fyi.
If you want to recruit for European PE then London would be a better choice and vice versa. Although buyside firms are also risk averse and it’s difficult to recruit without h1b in the US
I would add recognition element. If you would like to move from LND across the pond later on it will be only more difficult as London is loosing tons of deals, reaching 20 years low for IPOs etc in history. Of course people in here in London would take this as national pride to say something different but as many of us made opposite way NY->LND admits this as downgrade. London isn't the same centre it used to be and especially everything except FO are at risk, GS expends FTE in Paris, Frankfurt even Warsaw, same Morgan Stanley moving a lot to Frankfurt or Glasgow, Citi has European HQ but in Dublin (surprise).Most guys do not even try too follow outflow/(no inflow) role to London those days as it would be too depressing.
Recognition NY experience is much better, access to whole US market not comparable with London in any measures, especially after Brexit pressure putting less emphasis on location more revenues. If you read in details LSE is not even in top 7 stock exchanges anymore, overpassed by Indian's too! I would say NY is long leg choice and no brainer, when London is a gamble as it won't get better anymore. Happy times for most of us clearly passed, even recent parachutes from GS to hedge funds are struggling to keep their jobs there.
If only I could reverse this decision I would stick to NY and US market, keeping my options open possible for emerging regions like the Middle East or Asia.
Interesting Insight - do you think UK will pull up in the near future, or the gap between US and UK will widen?
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