Not sure I can do this, need advice
Hi guys,
New analyst 1 here who started about 2 months ago. I'm having a really tough time and need some advice from the community. Been on this forum since college and always wanted to go into IB so recruited and ended up doing a summer at a BB/EB which I am FT at now. Have been working from 8am to 1am 5 days a week since starting and typically 9am to 9pm on Saturday and Sunday. Have started feeling sick physically and wake up feeling extremely tired and anxious about going to work. On top of that culture seems to have taken a massive hit since last summer and nobody says a word to me in the bullpen other than my associate when he comes over to reprimand me for minor mistakes. I thought I knew what I was signing up for but this is far worse than I could have ever imagined. Is there anything I can do? If I quit is there any way I would be able to find a job? Friends and family are saying I should but I feel trapped considering I have to pay rent and also the clawback on the signing bonus. Please help out a drowning monkey.
Thanks in advance
you're showing signs of burnout which is totally normal according to the lifestyle you're describing. You need to revisit your WLB as quick as possible.
Why would you destroy your whole life over a few bucks? You have plenty of other jobs with great salary and you can have a side gig by having a youtube channel or freelancing/trading
Is it possible for you to take a health leave? This sounds unsustainable. It sucks that you’re early into your role - you may be unlucky with your group being sweatier than the average.
Hey thanks for the comment, unfortunately no chance of time off especially as it's so early. Does seem really unsustainable though, not sure what I can do, quitting seems impossible since I have no idea what I would do then.
Bump, in the same position. This was a major shock despite doing multiple IB/PE internships before. Working 10am - 4am every day except on Saturdays (which thank god are ”protected”)
I would also like to add that I completely agree with your ”culture” point. Feels like everyone is ignoring me for some reason, or are just not as friendly as last summer
OP here, yeah at least last summer as an intern analysts were friendly and the senior guys would hang out and chat sometimes. Now the stuff I'm staffed on the A2 is doing absolutely nothing and I'm expected to do every piece of work that comes through. Understand as the lowest guy on the ladder that comes with the territory but if I ask questions I get told to figure it out and then get blamed by everyone else if something goes wrong. My bank/group is well known for being sweaty but this is awful. I'm just a wreck rn, was an athlete in college and in great shape but I can feel myself losing it more every day, haven't been to the gym more than 3 times since starting and I'm feeling quite sickly. Not sure what we can do but even making it a year seems impossible.
Fully agree with you. I’m in parallel trying to look for entry-level roles on the buy-side that are ok with less than a year of IB experience. Also, I might be looking for MBB too. Obviously not a good sign to leave banking this early and I think what we’re feeling/experiencing is just part of the experience, but I still need to see if its possible to leave and ”restart” elsewhere
bump
At a BB and same thing. Absolutely brutal WLB and no care in the world from others. Had to work all day today on a “protected” Saturday and of course have a full days worth of work tomorrow.
I know this sucks to say, but the reality is that there is a bit of a performative show from the FTers when you're an intern to ease you in.
What do you mean by "performance show"?
At this point, you need to either take a sick leave before you get an embolism or switch sectors/teams/career. This is not healthy and you are the only person who will take care of your health.
MS me but this is not normal. Yes the job has long hours but you shouldn’t be feeling like this. You’re in the wrong environment and you need to switch. What you’re describing is a sweat shop.
2 months straight at 100hrs/week is rough
Remarks upfront:
Not dramatic if it happens once in a while, which you probably were aware of when you sat through interviews, but 2 months in a row is rough-side
Culture sounds hardo based on your remark re your associate
Questions to ask yourself:
How accurate is your description of the weekend and Friday night work? Cuz if you are overblowing it, then this could be more like 85 hour work weeks. If it were 85, that is not particularly hard in this industry and you might want to reassess whether this is what you want at all.
How minor is the stuff the associate is trashing you about? Is it actually minor and the guy is a hardo - or could it be that you might actually need to work on attention to detail or show more professional care? (If you are putting out non-sentences and your data doesn’t stack up, this is a big f problem as it is actually your job to get this right - not the clients’ - internal or external.)
Efficiency. How many deals are you working on simultaneously? A high-conviction mega PE buy side? 2-3 regular mandates? Are there some MBA associates running this, or overly seniorized associate 3 who is not willing to give you detailed guidance? Are you autonomous but also pragmatic seeking guidance? Inefficiency could come from your team or yourself. You should try to improve what you can and seek guidance from your immediate senior. Or is your team is the kind of people who are too insecure to say “no” or ask questions to seniors and to the client?
If you are in a legit sweatshop/sweaty group/sweaty team, that cannot be fixed and you should think of moving on. All the rest can be fixed as long as you are honest with yourself about how hard you are actually willing to work and have the right benchmarks in the context of this industry.
Hey OP here, thank you so much for the reply, really good to be able to post and hear from people who have been in the trenches. To answer your questions, regarding work product I think I am putting out generally quality stuff (and have heard that feedback from some of the other staffings I have), numbers tie and I am pretty good at formatting and making sure things look right. I am however getting blasted via email to the whole deal team for 1 or 2 spelling errors or extra spaces or a misaligned footnote across large decks after the first or second turn of comments. Trying to make sure those never happen but under time pressure and the fact that I am spread over 2 very active live deals as well as coverage work I don't think its possible to be perfect. My MBA associate and senior analyst on one of these deals seem to be throwing me under the bus as well by blaming me on calls with MDs for mistakes that were made before I even got staffed on the deal.
Regarding hours, my bank has no protection and Friday is basically the same as Monday regarding hours. weekends I have had 1 Saturday with nothing since I started and every other one has been a full day. Sunday is also a full day. I think I am pulling 95 to 100 each week, obviously expected the occasional week like this when I signed up but every week is getting really hard especially with the treatment from the group. Will try to hang in there as long as I can in order to have better prospects.
With questions the culture seems to be very averse to asking of seniors or clients. Without the needed information we are doing endless iterations on decks which keep getting ripped apart when they go up the chain. Not sure if this is an industry wide issue but if we juniors actually knew what was needed the hours would decrease significantly IMO.
If this is normal, then you are correct and I am not cut out for this life lol, not sure as I have no real frame of reference considering I only did one Ib internship here before starting.
Thanks for the clarification. That being said, here are my two cents:
By best advice: If you have new staffing coming towards you when you are already swamped, start pushing back. Communicate clearly with your staffer. Saying yes to everything will destroy you as it seems you are in a sweaty group with poor culture. And start looking for alternatives. You sound like you have the right attitude judging by your post and comments. Keep your head up. Only quit if your body is shutting down, you have no time at all to interview and you are confident you would get interviews, or if you already have a good offer somewhere else. Allow half a year before you make big decisions.
To answer the main question: Yes, you will find something else if you quite, but potentially not in IBD / PE.
2 piece of advice that I think is important.
For me my first 3-4 months in IBD were the worse. You feel like an idiot, you are slow at work, you don’t get things fast and this is natural. It’s the same for everyone. I’d try to give it a couple of months potentially before quitting.
Now, if you think you might quit imminently anyway, you might as well start pushing back on work / flagging to team/staffer that you are extremely busy and for a few weeks stop taking new things. given that it’s unlikely you are there by bonus time, you might as well stop caring about performance and start prioritizing staying a few more months while looking for something else. Works case scenario you get fired, which is better than quitting with nothing lined up two months in.
Important to mention, if you think this is having an impact on health / it’s getting out of hand, just resign.
Hey OP here, thanks so much for the reply, +1SB, I'm really hoping part of it is just being new, going to try to hang in there a while longer. If I do quit, I would honestly be totally fine never working in IB/PE again. Just would have to find something in finance/consulting that would give me my life back. I know that gets way easier at the 1 year mark but good to know I would be able to find something if the worst occurs.
disregard title. Am now a 2nd year at one of the commonly regarded sweatiest group on the street (at a top BB/EB) and wanted to give every new starters here some signs of hope.
Just know that it’ll be better. Besides the physical toll you experience on the job (personally, have gone sick, gotten fever from lack of sleep / overall drain, and even considered consulting therapists multiple times and know many others in my year experienced the same), what’s driving most of the discontent is the emotional aspect, which you will adapt 3-4 months into the job, but definitely challenging in the beginning. Reason as following: we all, or most of us, went to great schools, came to this position with a certain pride. During college, you were probably serving a leadership position and had underclassmen came to you for advice. you were a king / queen, right before you start at this job. Then, your aso, anl, vp, only treats you like a cost center. There is no acknowledgement when you do well, as that is expected, and people speak to you only when you f’ed something up, which is more than common in the beginning of the job.
It will be like this for a few months. For me, it took me 6 months to become somewhat accepting of the context, fully comprehending what I got myself into. It also took somewhat 8 months for MDs to start recognizing my name.
However, after some months, and especially after you have your own first set of interns, you will start realizing how much you’ve grown. Your MDs will actually thank you for the hardworking, your associates starts caring for you like a human. Now, you have a new class of 1Ys below you, and you are learning to remember to not treat them like how you were being treated so to start changing the culture.
My best advice for every 1Y here is to have a buddy 2nd year. Someone whom you trust and can share emotional vulnerabilities with. You need that one person to constantly remind you that it’ll be okay, that people will get through this. Because it’ll be okay.
I would try to stick it out for 1 year. See below for some thoughts:
Figure out what that 1 year anniversary date is, circle it on your calendar, use that as your goal, then immediately jump ship once you hit it.
Know exactly how you feel. I did only 1 year total at my BB IB gig, and then hard quit with nothing lined up. I was so miserable and was nauseous and sick every single day. 2-3 weeks into unemployment I was happy but thought I made a horrible horrible decision.
Fast forward now, I am a strategic finance associate at a $10bn unicorn. I make around $190k all in (more than what I did at my first year in IB) and no joke work ~35 hours a week. I have not worked 1 single weekend ever. Fridays we log off at 1pm. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Happy to chat about my switch if helpful or answer any questions here.
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