Notre Dame > Georgetown?
Notre Dame Mendoza and Georgetown MSB are very similar in terms of demographics, culture, social life, etc. Georgetown has a bit more presence on the street in terms of volume, but it seems like Notre Dame alums are more willing to go to bat for undergrads than Georgetown alums are; there is more of a cult following at ND. But because of the volume difference is Georgetown better?
More generally, I'm interested to see what the perception is like on Wall Street. A lot of people say the difference is negligible, but I do think school prestige does matter to some extent. ND is ranked a bit higher on USNews, but I would think that in terms of real life that might be different.
I'm also interested in grade inflation at each school. I think Georgetown might have a bit more of that which makes it harder to differentiate yourself.
Obviously, I'm splitting hairs here. I understand that most likely the only people will comment strong opinions on this post will be those who went to either school. But I would appreciate the advice of which I should choose between these schools?
ND is better and it's not that close. If I were to ask someone on the street which school is better, they say ND 9/10 times. A lot of people will comment otherwise because like you said, there are a lot of people on this site who went to GTown.
Least-obvious ND alum on this site
Can someone give me a strong argument for GTown > ND because this is generally what I've found:
Alumni pull ND > GTown
USNews Ranking ND > GTown, so prestige outside of finance ND > GTown
Volume of kids going into IB: GTown > ND
Placement into elite programs (Blackstone (not BS groups like BAAM, real estate asset management), EB RX, etc) ND > GTown
I feel that people might over-read into gross numbers online from Linkedin, when you have to account for people being way more hardo about finance at Georgetown. Someone prove me wrong, I'm really looking for some insight here.
US news ranking doesn't mean anything to the general public. Columbia is lower rated on that list than Wash U or Rice, but I think it's clear which of those three almost everyone agrees is the most prestigious.
Most people on the east coast in my experience think of GT as more prestigious than ND.
This. ND is ranked higher than GT and they would be ranked even higher if it weren’t for getting an extremely low score on DEI
Personally, I’ve felt that the people I’ve met from Georgetown are among the try-hard-but-dumb demographic.
There are people who choose notre dame over ivies because they are catholic/love the environment, but nobody chooses georgetown over ivies, so there is more of an ivy-reject feel to georgetown
That’s how a lot Ivy kids are too. Admission to a top school is more reliant on optics than intelligence, so you’ll get a decent number of very average kids going to top schools.
I chose Gtown over multiple Ivies (not catholic/never applied ND) and know plenty who did the same - it's demonstrably a top target on Wall Street, arguably the best in politics/gov/IR, huge brand name, and so on. Tons of reasons people like me go there as first choice every year
Also most catholics I met there had either applied to just Gtown as their reach, or gotten into both and chosen Gtown. I know this might utterly shock the average ND WSO hardo, but not every accomplished catholic student wants to go to school in rural northern Indiana. Some do, but many others would rather be in a city/on the east coast/in DC specifically/etc
I think Gtown is better but they're both great and OP should choose based on fit - really not a huge deal. There is a weird and almost obsessive amount of animosity/cope from some ND people on this thread - I have buddies there who are great so guessing this is just the insecure minority but still off-putting
There was a Georgetown kid in my Analyst class at a top group (think HL, EVR Rx ) and he was barely able to do basic math (think addition, multiplication)
Oddly enough, I had a very similar experience. Back a few years ago when I was a summer analyst in an Rx group, a Georgetown kid simply couldn't wrap his head around why interest rates and bond prices were inversely related. On multiple instances he confidently stated "Interest rates rising cause bond price increases because you get more money in coupons" and when someone would try to challenge him he would reference having went to Georgetown and the number of people on wall street that went to Georgetown
Someone‘a salty that a gtown kid got picked over an ND head
I think the reason there is so much support for GT on this site is because people at ND have stuff going on in their lives that keep them from worrying about stupid discussions like this one, while GT kids have the inferiority complex built-in from not getting into an Ivy so they have to voice how "prestigious" their instutution is online in order to feel validated.
No one gives a fuck either way. Believe that
Notre Dame is a solid school. However no offense but literally zero people outside of certain groups within the catholic and football communities would hold ND in as high regard as you do. Certainly nowhere close to "9/10 people on the street" would say it's better than Gtown. This is literally just patently absurd - I'm obviously biased but I'd say it's actually the exact opposite. Vast majority of people I know would say they're both good but Gtown better whether you're looking at finance placement numbers, brand name strength, strengths in most fields outside of finance, etc
Can't believe I have to say this to someone who is probably a full-grown adult man but very few real life people outside of acne-faced high school students, admissions committee people, and maybe a few insecure college freshmen read or care about college rankings and they are fairly meaningless at this point. You cited USNews (which mostly values research, which Gtown, as a primarily politics/business focused school doesn't even really pretend to prioritize in either the students it admits nor the outcomes it desires) in claiming that ND is "better in rankings" but I could quote WSJ right back at you (which values mostly salary and job outcomes, arguably far more relevant here) which put Gtown at #12 and ND at #32. Or, perhaps even more relevant to this situation I could cite Poets & Quants this year which put Gtown at #2 and ND at #5
What Notre Dame is, is a very solid school which, with a student body comprised of 82% roman catholics and a campus in the middle of bumfuck Indiana, is not shy about the fact that it appeals to a hyper specific audience. Being part of that audience is totally fine - it's clearly right for plenty of people - but pretending like the other 95% of the world also views it the same way is just ridiculous. I'm not saying Gtown is the greatest school in the world and everyone should love it (maybe I am) but claiming this confidently that ND is better just outs you as either a retarded person living fully insulated inside of a metaphorical bubble or someone who has been BSing yourself for years
I think the top student at Notre Dame will place better than the top student at Georgetown, but the average student at Georgetown will place better than the average student at ND.
This is because of the high grade inflation at Georgetown. So many kids get a 3.9+, where Mendoza is curved to a B average. So it's much easier to differentiate yourself in recruiting if you are actually smart. But if you aren't that good of a student (be honest with yourself) I would pick Georgetown to land an IB spot.
georgetown doesn’t have grade inflation FWIW. in SFS and MSB classes only 20-30% get an A
Georgetown MSB curves the class down to a 3.5 average. It used to be 3.0
You mention 3.5 average like it's low
Friends/family at both, attended neither: I feel like recruitment should really be the least of your concern as a rising college freshman who may not even want to end up in finance in four years. Both are targets for most firms that, so long as you are a strong student, will place you somewhere great. That's why I think your other comment that they are similar in terms of culture and social life is a bit misguided.
Sure, both are academically strong catholic schools, but most of the similarities end there. ND is located in a small regional city in the Midwest, whereas Georgetown is next to one of the largest cities on the East Coast. Notre Dame doesn't have Greek life, Georgetown does. Hearing from friends at both schools, Notre Dame has a very strong school spirit with regard to sports, while those at Georgetown spend a lot of their free time in DC. Try to visit both schools or go to online informational sessions.
I didn't come on this site to get substance-less comments like this one. Don't know why these comments that are supposedly "rational" and "big-picture" always get SBs.I acknowledge the importance of other factors at the beginning, I wouldn't come on WSO to get advice on social life at these schools, I'd visit to get that. There are a ton of other forums me to read about the social life that are more accurate than someone who doesn’t know anyone who went to either school and regurgitates basic facts that anyone considering these schools would know. This isn’t necessarily just directed at you but I see comments on tons of posts like these on WSO
Your first sentence is that they’re culturally “very similar”, which, as you say you can do, if you went on their websites you’d see isn’t the case. I was trying to help shed light on that so your decision on what school to attend isn’t primarily driven by supposed differences in “school prestige” for finance (yes I know you acknowledge it’s splitting hairs).
Georgetown is a member school of Global Platinum Securities, which places kids very well into restricting roles (among general groups). ND has no similar thing. GPS is also incredibly tough to get into. At my firm Georgetown is better represented, but that’s n=1.
Georgetown is in DC, it's not next to it.
Let's make this easy: Silver Banana this comment for ND, Monkey Shit this comment for Georgetown
Both good schools, but Georgetown probably has a reputation for being a bit stronger intellectually (even with the grade deflection.) Note Dame also only somewhat recently became very strong intellectually, previously was known as a sports school with good academics (sorry if harsh but I think is the case.) most boomers will know ND is good, but will likely have a higher opinion of Georgetown. Idk about banking specific placements and programs at either though, but I’d imagine Georgetown provides some more options
Georgetown has more alumni working on “Wall Street” - across all areas of finance - than any other school.
Gtown all day, its rep on the street is strong like bull
PJT RSSG > POTUS
ND sent like 5 kids to PJT RSSG
Georgetown has never sent a single kid to PJT RSSG
Enough said
This is not true.
What about it isn't true?
Inaccurate, I'm in M&A at PJT and there have been 1-2 GU kids in RSSG every year for at least the past 3 cycles
Overall, Georgetown's a no-brainer.
If you want school rankings based on general prestige, placement, and academics, it's below. The true target school label honestly falls off after category 3-4 depending on who you talk to. Rankings are fairly holistic, as you really shouldn't take school A over school B, just because "school A placed has more alumni at PJT RSSG than school B."
1) Wharton, Harvard, Stanford
2) Princeton, Yale, MIT, Columbia, UChicago, Duke, Dartmouth
3) Dyson, Stern, Ross
4) Georgetown McDonough/SFS, Berkeley Haas, UVA McIntire, Northwestern, Brown
5) ND Mendoza, UT Austin
This is, quite frankly, one of the more unrealistic lists I've seen, Prospect in IB. I would say congrats on Ross, but there are so many bizarre placements on this list. Stern by no means is better than Brown, and UVA is not better than Mendoza under any circumstances besides raw volume.
List is accurate. Unsure why you think I went to Ross, but I majored in religion studies at Dartmouth.
Stern drowns Brown in sheer volume, proximity, and resources. Nobody should ever be taking ND over UVA, unless you're short-sighted enough to believe the only relevant criteria of school selection is to have a .01% chance higher of getting an analyst gig. Third and fourth categories are very exchangeable and could be condensed together, but everything else fits.
But then again, what would I know working in the industry for almost three years? You're literally a freshman, who self-admittedly has not been through the recruitment process, and has to ask online what business casual means.
UVA over Mendoza is some clown sh!t
Go to GU if you’re in the liberal, SJW demographic, and ND if you’re not
You seem to have forgotten the prestigious Kelley school of business in tier one.
Only Dartmouth students would think they're on the same level as Princeton/Yale/MIT
Let’s be real, both are great schools. Pick the one that gives you more money (if money is a concern). If not pick which one you like more. Totally different vibes, you might not be happy at one versus the other. You will have top opportunities either way if you work for it
Go where you like better. These schools are very comparable to anyone on Wall Street, perhaps a slight edge to Georgetown due to how many alumni they have, and if you try hard you’ll have comparable opportunities at both.
Personally I’d rather die than go to a Catholic college in any capacity but that’s just me.
Holy shit this thread is a shit show
These threads always are. It’s fucked up because people will always blindly root for their own school not realizing they could be screwing up some poor kid’s life.
In this case, these two are peers and it doesn’t really matter but I’ve seen some garbage takes.
Only thing Georgetown has that is better than Notre dame is diversity
This thread is easily one of the most pathetic things I’ve read in my life.
ND FTW. Mendoza curve is absolutely stupid, but if you’re gunning for Wall Street, chances are you’re a hard worker and you’ll get A- or A’s in most of your classes. Alumni are absolutely incredible. No matter where you go, you’ll find one of us and always have good conversation. More importantly, we always want to help one another out however we can. I’m excited to see how the alumni base is later in my career after I need to make job switch #2, 3, etc.
Thanks for the MS for speaking the truth about the Mendoza curve and our alumni network. I love the strangers on this website🥰
They're both top-tier catholic schools with great school spirit, amazing alumni connections, and top notch placement. Go to the school you like better. 98% of ppl won't have a difference in outcome from these schools.
Lol. Notre Dame by a mile. How’s this even a serious question?
This is perhaps the dumbest comment I have seen on this forum, and this is truly saying something. Statistics wise, one could perhaps argue that the two are similar, but when one factors in the respective cultures of the schools, you cannot even make a comparison.
Lol Gtown no brainer, ND is a clear step below
Laughable how some kids are posting anecdotal internship evidence which is total bs.
Here’s some data on IB placement. Georgetown absolutely destroys ND.
Aside from IB —do some research and you’ll find that Georgetown has phenomenal placement into top law / med / other grad programs. Also top 3 in producing most senators / people in congress. Produces most ambassadors by a long shot. Could keep rambling on but punchline is that Georgetown is very well rounded and overall stronger than ND
This is one of the dumbest ways to go about choosing a school, especially if you are one of the top students. Following this chart, I would choose Georgetown over Princeton to get into IB. If you look at numbers of people who place into top roles (buy side, EBs) then the more academically strong schools place better. Georgetown kids area all gunning for IB so of course they will have high volume.
Georgetown kids repeatedly referencing this chart further shows just how dumb they really are.
Your response demonstrates that you have either a) poor reading comprehension skills or b) poor logical deduction skills.
You’re missing the fact that I’m very clearly stating that Georgetown is an overall more well-rounded school, hence my explicit mention of grad school placement / other career options, aside from very strong IB placement.
Anyone who knows anything about Georgetown / academia knows that, while Georgetown is very strong for IB (for the people who are actually gunning for it), it is more well known for its government / international relations / liberal arts programs, which is largely why most people ultimately end up in law / politics / medicine.
In other words, although most people at Georgetown are interested in other subjects — the kids who want IB at Georgetown have an easy time getting it.
Indeed, there are many other important factors to consider when choosing schools, other than just IB — including strong liberal arts programs, successful alumni in other fields, etc. as I mentioned
SMU/Stanford so close, which would you choose? Lolll
Realistically, with good grades, networking and some persistence, you will get to IB from either school. I'd say make your choice based on culture. ND is a real campus feel, catholic ethos, sports centric, and a little bit culty (although not bad when you're part of it). Georgetown being in DC is going to feel very different and might suit and independent spirit a little more. Visit both, speak to current students, and make the decision based on culture and fit.
I’ve yet to encounter a normal notre dame kid. Isn’t it basically a BYU but in the Midwest?
Kids at Notre Dame are some of the most “normal” kids in the nation.
I’m actually curious about what you mean by the quotes here
No dog in this fight. Both schools are great from a recruiting perspective, this entire thread has poked holes in the nuances and there are pros and cons for both.
The ACTUAL most important thing is where do you think YOU WILL succeed. That means culturally, socially and academically. Finance is a competitive field and if you show up and hate the school the less likely you are to succeed. If you pick ND and fail, where you would have succeeded at Georgetown, then it was pointless picking ND because your resume won’t get picked up from the pile, and vice versa.
You can go to a non-target, and if you are the best there, it will have been a better choice than being at the bottom of a target.
Just my 2 cents, give me monkey shit.
Stop embarrassing us. - ND Kid
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