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Uhh this is such a dumb post considering the demographics on this board.
You never know. There are quite a number of people with an international focus on this board. And I'm much more interested in the reasons why they choose a particular region than the percentage breakdown (which we all know NYC would win by a landslide)
For me it all boils down to the culture (what city has the culture you love/identify with most, and then your career plan (do you want to build a career in Asia/US/Europe)? For example, I know I want a career in Greater China/South East Asia, I literally cannot last a day without rice, I enjoy all of the Chinese classics (Journey to the West being my favorite) and I just love getting lucky money on Lunar New Year so that makes HK/Singapore a perfect choice :)
Btw venturecapitalista, what's with you and hypothetical questions these days? :-s Daydreaming much :P
With Sarbox compliance, the rise of Asia and the macro problems in the US, I think international jobs look more and more appealing.
Personally, I want to live in Sydney... I'd be happy to park myself at Macquarie and call it a life.
Urghhhh I can't stand the Aussie accent :| The overuse of the word "mate" makes me cringe everytime!!!! (Although by the same token, I still don't know how horrible my English would be if I were to stay in Singapore for a few years and get immersed to the much dreaded, intelligible Singlish)
However, landing a job with Macquarie is pretty solid and it will negate everything I said :)
for me - come from Europe, want to stay in Europe
Train in London, live single life in New York, spend first two years of couple life in HK, settle in Sydney/Switzerland.
London - NYC style work ethic and training, cheaper and higher quality of life (but worse dating, worse going out, not that this matters during training). A down to earth attitude that may avoid your getting the big head syndrome of the US financier ;)
New York - if you are male, this is the best city in the world, particularly if you are international and working in finance. I have never seen so many hot single women with amazing education and careers. The imbalance is firmly in the favour of men. Generally, the dating scene is a lot more active and interesting than anywhere else in the world and New York people are more intense and more ambitious than anywhere else I've been. Going out is still fairly cheap. The quality of life compared to the rest of the world worsens as your income and age increase. This is still the centre of the world for finance and business.
HK/Singapore - whichever your industry is in. Sample the single life in HK, going out, travelling around Asia from a super efficient airport, saving heaps of cash since tax rates are so low, living in a cool sky high tower and dining in private kitchens. Victoria's Peak on the weekend if you're not in Thailand. Singapore once you start dreaming about clean streets and space again, although it is smaller and arguably more boring; you might not get a choice (e.g. all our competitors are in SG including the one who has floated in HK). They are small comfortable vibrant villages with amazing energy and a fairly safe and comfortable quality of life.
Sydney - the suburban setup is amazing. You will have a spacious house (especially post-bubble burst), surf, eat extremely well (best food I have had in the world, beats Paris by a mile), work opportunities aren't so bad, but you are away from everything else in the world and life is expensive. Good conditions to raise medium-aged kids; the local dangers (mostly the sun although expats get worried about the fauna) can make it less suitable for very young children (most Aussies would disagree and say it makes for a "healthy childhood"). The lowest debt/GDP ratio in the world although exposure to commodities is worrying in case of a China blowup. A constantly liberalizing government (30 year trend) regardless of which side wins the elections and a population that is fairly libertarian and common sense driven. The downside is the lack of culture but as you get older this is less important (and you can always buy DVDs). There are no hedge funds as tax laws screw LPs (when this changes Sydney will be a very cool place to set up a fund). People are so chilled out and easy to live with, yet productive and with the right values. I love the place and go whenever I can (which is not often as the 24h plane ride is a real b...ch).
Switzerland - perfect temperate climate, safe (at least in the German speaking part), fantastic philosophy (benevolent hard working libertarians who back their thoughts with actions - every man has a rifle and can rise to defend the place), almost nonexistent crime, sky high salaries barely taxed (graduate starting base in consulting is over $100,000 on 8% income tax), good quality housing, safe outdoor activities. This is where you want to be middle-aged, going to work in 10 minutes of a spotless train that arrives on time, in your big well built house with a view on the mountains, with a large garden in which the kids can play. Teenagers will be less likely to turn into the communists that New York high schools and universities seem to apt at producing. You might get a bit bored though and good schools are hard to get in. The constant having to be careful what you say because of the tiny and powerful networks WILL annoy New Yorkers.
EURCHF parity, i'm really feeling your post and rationale. Nicely said.
I grew up in Toronto, spent time in HK, worked 2 months in London, and spent 2 months with my current firm training in NY. Currently working in Toronto, but I see myself moving to HK within 3-5 years.
London.
Why isn't Chicago on the list?
Hahahhaaha THIS ^^ Now you make me feel bad for people who have to live in Minnesota/Wisconsin
Singapore.
^^^ Looks like someone missed the Christmas present that the snow gods gave us in NYC last December. 60" made for a 30-year snowstorm by Chicago standards.
Did someone just say London is a cheaper place to live than NYC.....just let me know how much of that money you keep when you move over there. Pretty sure taxes just went up as well I'd cross that off the list.
Of course you'd be mad to move to London when you are paid large bonuses and eligible for the 50% haircut. Hence listing Hong Kong, Singapore and Switzerland as superior locations. Funds are moving one after the other to Geneva, Lausanne and Zurich. The day the bonus tax was announced, Brevan had a mass exodus towards the office they opened there that could host 40 people, at an estimated tax revenue loss of over 300m GBP from the part of HMRC.
The key thing is that there's not one "ideal" location - there are trade offs everywhere and you need to see what you value in life and make the trade offs. Tax only becomes an issue after a few years.
As for Chicago, I was half jesting. It's a fantastic city, one that is even more extremely "civilized" than New York (that skyline is incredible), with a great quality of life and culture. However winter IS cold (same reason I'd ignore Toronto), and the deal breaker for me is that Obama comes from not too far away. If a place can produce scumbags like him, I don't want to live there. Illinois is one of two states (the other being within the city of Washington DC) where concealed carry permits from other states will still be invalid after the legislation change. I think that is telling re: the evolution of your individual rights in that state.
I personally love TX, esp. Houston and Austin, but don't think this is where a corporate career oriented person should go unless she wants to specialize (in energy). Now if you are an entrepreneur or trader the choice is easy.
I’ve lived in NY, London, and HK, and I’ve visited SG. I would rank it:
HK >>>> London > NY > SG
HK IMO is the best city in the world. Best combo of weather, nightlife, outdoors, girls, cost of living, travel hub, cleanliness, industry, and safety.
i pick toronto... i love my city... but i would pick new york simply because I can get back to toronto in an hour and a half lol
Wondering why would SING be included in the list in the first place. Singapore is a boring shithole and SE Asia is still not there in term of the investment banking business.
London/ NYC/ HK are all global financial centers while Singapore is nothing but a regional hub...
To each his own I think. Besides, if you have to work IB hours you wouldn't have time to enjoy the city anyway. Your only entertainment option after 2 in the morning would be late night clubs, which are essentially the same everywhere you go. I guess the major plus side of staying in Singapore/HK is that it's so damn fast and convenient to fly out and explore other SEA countries (M'sia, Indonesia, Thailand...) Even Tokyo or Seoul or Beijing would take only 3-4 hours flying!
San Fran all the way...... If you want money ( mega funds ) in the US. Then you really only have 2 options NYC or San Fran. I dont I feel like I like both cities, but Cali in general prolly has better looking girls idk. I love manhattan ( i like the concrete jungle part ) and thanksgiving and christmas in NYC is da bomb. But if I wanted to raise a family I might prefer San Fran.
I also like chi-town ugh idk which downtown is bigger chi-town or san fran?
I love San Fran but it's not a deal hub the way NYC/LON are. Also, SF is about to get fucked by the impending bubble burst in the Valley... it's party like it's 1999 all over again. Mark your calendars. On the flip side, real estate will finally get more affordable when that happens.
Chicago has a larger population and its CBD is bigger than SF, which you can walk entirely on foot in like 20 minutes. SF has huge urban sprawl, from SF to Oakland to San Jose, including Silicon Valley.
Also: the bums in SF are really the worst in the world. It's filthy and the liberalism there is God-awful. At least in NYC people keep their shit to themselves.
My brother got really annoyed by the California cow commercials awhile ago. He wanted to have a "Healthy Cows Come from Wisconsin" ad campaign of three holsteins talking about the new cow who came from "Happy Country" shivvering over in the corner.
Singapore
If it's good enough for Jimmy Rogers it's good enough for me
Got to follow the $$$
I know Shanghai can't be compared with the above mentioned cities but I was wondering how promising the city is??? The media has been too optimistic about its future and I sort of doubt that :-s
HK sucks arse. They have the ugliest girls, rubbish night life and they have regular epidemic eruptions like SARS. I'd choose Tokyo or Seoul over HK.
But honestly, NYC is the best. Chicago is pretty cool too.
would call chicago or london
been and lived in NYC for roughly 2 months and London the same amount, and London was far better in terms of nightlife, food and traveling conveniences. Also things are more historical just outside the City or canary wharf, so it makes weekend chilling more interesting.
Caveat though is you gotta hang out with the right people to actually enjoy those cities to the fullest either for a short term or long term... I got lot more friends in London than in NYC although (strangely) coming from the States. Also Chicago was good too but I was there in summer so my opinion is obviously biased
SIngapore hands down
I haved lived in HK/SG/NY/LO and Melb and I can tell you there is no such place as best place.
The grass is always greener my friend.
PS: Lived = >2 yrs
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