Piper or WF for SA?
I know its a broad question--not mentioning any groups. Would love to hear opinions.
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100% Piper
Can you elaborate?
wlb, exit ops, top groups, comp?
WLB: highly group dependent
Top groups - Chemicals (Valence Group), FIG (Sandler O' Neill), Tech (DBO Partners)
Exit ops - group dependent, but if you get chemicals/fig/tech(dbo), then you can get MM/UMM PE for sure, maybe MF if your a really strong analyst & candidate
Comp - prob can expect 170-190k first year, depending on market conditions
HC (MedTech) is easily the best group at Piper. Sandler and Valence folks do well too. DBO is a sweatshop.
I would actually go with Wells. Piper is a solid player in the MM space without a doubt, especially in healthcare and chemicals. But given the recent events (i.e. CS) and Wells Fargo's performance over the last year, Wells Fargo is definitely in position to gain a lot of market share and take Credit Suisse's place on the tables.
This forum likes to shit on Wells a lot, but these opinions are outdated. Take a look at their recent hires and you'll see the trajectory.
To be fair, WF exits are a decent bit worse than Pipers currently. Maybe in a few years that changes, but for people weighing SAs right now I don’t think it’s going to change soon
Hmmm… I actually looked them both up on CapIQ. WF has more than twice as many transactions (all types) over the last 3 yrs (2800 vs 1200). But when it comes to M&A deals, Piper has 411 vs WF’s 74 over the same period. Thoughts?
WF versus any other MM/EB will have more transactions when you include debt deals. They have a big balance sheet, not surprising. Would still easily take Jeff/Piper/HL/Blair/Baird/HW over WF.
I can see the case for Jefferies, but definitely not the other banks you mentioned. Wells Fargo is not what it was 5 years ago - take a look at some of the deals they've been on in the last year.
Piper Sandler has the better brand name
Wells Fargo. They made top 10 M&A advisors last year and will probably do it again this year given the new senior people (Hogan, Gudofsky, Meighan, Raghavan, etc.) Historically, Piper probably had better exits from their top groups, but that will likely change in the next few years. If you are considering this for SA 2024, keep in mind that you won't be hitting the desk / recruiting for PE for another 2-3 years.
They might make it from financing but unless it’s through largely M&A or at least a good deal of M&A, exits are unlikely to improve in the near term. That’s the issue with the folks they brought in as well, all are great and I’m sure will help the franchise but they’re only like 1-2 guys being added to each group - they can’t be the only guys being productive in bringing in M&A deal flow.
To give you an example, CS TMT who used to pretty regularly be in some of the top 10 TMT advisors lists but was rarely one of the top 5, if ever, had like a rotating cast of usually 6 seniors that were fairly productive for M&A (before everyone but Gudofsky and Wah quit and were replaced with randoms who couldn’t win shit to save their lives from like BMO and HSBC) meanwhile everyone at WF TMT has been frankly quite bad at that stuff for decades now. It’s going to either take even more new high profile hires or something massive to shift the public perception of people at WF for most of their groups (basically everything besides REGAL and Industrials) to see them do more high profile or even more M&A in general and unless they’re doing more M&A exits are unlikely to improve materially.
Agreed, plus as some have already said on this forum - those few big M&A deals they were a part of this year - they weren't the lead advisors they were there for financing, I've talked to clients in corp dev and buyside that were part of some of those deals Wells "was on" and none of them even remembered Wells was a part of the process. Its just not the same exp and it will translate into buyside placements. Wells is a great shop to be at long term, it will probably continue to build its capability and presence in M&A but if you're looking to just get the best buyside offer you can in the next 5 years, Piper will likely be the better place to be (in a top group)
I know you said don't mention groups, but group does dictate your experience. If it's REGAL, FIG, P&U Wells is the easy decision. Piper for Medtech and prob tech in general.
Wells is on the upside. Culture wise WF all day... You have a ton of chill people that are very sharp. Have you talked to Piper bankers?? They are definitely sharp but also some of the most boring ppl I have met throughout recruiting. Can't go wrong with either but I'd take WF
?? Piper FIG >> WF FIG and its not even close.
Gotta disagree with the culture at Wells. While most groups are great, the HC group in NYC had bad culture, and senior bankers leaving the firm. Also the work was mostly pitching with no actual/meaningful dealflow. Senior MDs barely bring in any M&A deals and are not motivated to bring deals as they have good comp packages
Former Piper Sandler employee. Everyone here is hyping up this place for no good reason. The firm is solid in maybe 3 groups, and very average / below average in others. Exits overall are not amazing, and culture can also be variable.
I have friends at Wells, and it's pretty group dependent there too. For their culture and pay though, I would have switched in a heartbeat from Piper. Exits seem similar as well.
We get it man. You don't need to lie and comment three times to tell us that you work at Wells Fargo. WF is decent but anyone is taking a top group at Piper 10 times out of 10 over WF. Stop it.
Those comments above aren't me and I don't work at Wells. I left Piper about a year ago and I was in a pretty shit group, so obviously I'm biased. For context my group has pretty bad turnover.
This thread is full of immature people who keep throwing MS at each other instead of talking productively
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