Promotion from Associate to VP
Basically, how do you this??
What gets you to the next level? Do you just start doing the VPs role?
Is it leading but still being led by the VP on a deal?
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Would appreciate anyone’s view on who made the jump recently
Have seen first hand those who don't make it and those who do.
Aside from the obvious check in the list like not stupid, detail oriented, hard working, the BIGGEST factor i've seen actually is more office politics than anything else.
Did you align yourself with current VP's that are set for ED's promotes. Is there an MD you have been working very closely with that'll vouch for your ability as a VP? Two equally good associates will face vastly different promote outcomes based, albeit unfairly, solely on their ability to have intertwined themselves with upper parts of their group
What exactly happens if you DON’T make VP? I’ve heard about people getting “pushed out”. Does that literally entail a performance review whereby your boss says sorry bucko but you’re gone in a month or is it more like they just keep you at Associate 3 and promote your peers so the writing is in the wall you should probably find a new gig?
It's not exactly how you're phrasing it. The associate is more than likely going to read the writing on the wall and recruit either for a dif group / bank or exit to industry. Literally no associate pumping 80 + hours a week in hopes of making it to VP is going to want to stay after being told no.
Have seen it go both ways. Some people are told decently far in advance that they're not on track or can see the writing on the wall and leave. Have also seen people stick around as Associate 4. Really depends on the staffing needs of the group.
Two things:
I thought politics didn’t matter nearly as much until VP, where most people get stuck. I thought promotion to VP would still largely be execution performance.
I wonder how associates hired via Zoom these can get promoted ? Way harder to create those relationships.
The only one that isn't really politics is analyst to associate.
If you're staying on as VP it likley means you have intention of somewhat being a career banker or at least are entertaining the idea for the time being.
I beg to differ. PE firms really be getting cheap these days. "I would like to zero out your prior experience because I want someone who can hit the ground running and continue running for the whole year, has the work ethic of a banker and is okay pulling all-nighters for lower pay than banking. But new graduates? Eww!! Give me a 2nd or 3rd year from a BB who is willing to not be paid like one"
Obviously wouldn't have taken the gig if I had another choice - I didn't due to circumstances not in my control.
I think there's a lot to being promoted to VP and beyond. It's not always politics or even execution. Some people don't want the responsibility of management, others have a home situation that doesn't allow for more hours. In other cases I've heard that people don't want to move up because company stock becomes too much a part of the compensation so the numbers don't pencil out for them. For example, if you're a Director and decline MD because of the stock plans, well a Director still makes a salary that more than adequate for most people out there, no shame in staying at Director.
So there's just too many variables out there to say that people are "stuck" or the cause is "office politics" - there's a lot to it.
Is it possible to stay at the Director level long-term in IB?
VP promotion depends on many factors. (1) You have to be a good ASO in the first place. If you suck as an ASO you won’t get promoted. If you don’t get promoted you may be out, though I know cases of people that stayed for a 4th ASO year and then got promoted (and incidentally, their career went REALLY well, made MD, got to group head, etc.). (2) Office politics matter, but to me it feels like not that much. For any firm it’s a no brainer to promote a capable ASO into a VP role, even if that means going a little bit over headcount. There’s not much difference in base salary, and you can always adjust bonus. (3) It helps on your ASO3 year to ask not being staffed with a VP above you.
This what I've heard... that getting there is easier because of a lower comp differential. I just don't actually know how, lol.
I've actually heard the A2A promotion is harder, because once you're an associate, you're considered for long-term opps.
That's a really good idea - to ask to not be staffed with a VP.
Worked at a EB previously. The VP promo was relatively easy and was the weakest layer in my team. MDs were strong as were the gunner analysts. A2A assocs were decent but in my group, they were the ones that didn't "exit". They're all doing off cycle to exit and don't want to stay around. Depends on a lot of factors (politics, competency, etc.) but the bar was low, at least in my experience
Did you go IB associate -> PE? If so, how did you go about making the move?
I did not. Some of my buddies did and they mentioned it's exactly the same as when you're an analyst. they actually thought they were much more prepared and could be much more opportunistic (in off cycle) for top shops
VP2 at a BB NYC Industrials group. Made VP last year. I think it all boils down to "Are you ready to be put in a more client-facing role, while managing associates/analysts?" The second part obviously includes have you done a good enough job as an associate/analyst. Having that said, I haven't seen a single person from my associate class (who haven't left the firm voluntarily) that haven't made VP - though some of them got their promotions this year. From what I've seen over the years, Asso-VP promotion is pretty much a given in IBD if you've done a decent enough job. (unlike S&T where I've seen a lot of folks get fired during their AS3/VP1 year) So, no. For me it wasn't hard at all.
VP-D promotion however seems to be slightly more tricky. There's a great WSO interview that covers this topic (from associate to VP to D) so check it out.
bump
Any senior associate should have a relative sense on their promotion track based on reviews and current staffings — many platforms are having senior associates “play up” given market activity and thinning at VP levels.
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Most Associates get promoted to VP by not asking stupid questions, especially when they know it's a stupid question.
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Best way to play politics is to not play politics. You just need to do a good work, to have people like you, and not piss anyone off. The only way to do that is by working hard and having a normal friendly colleague relationship with your co-workers. The rest you can’t control.
This is actually really terrible and potentially harmful advice.
Related question: how much do office politics matter if you plan on leaving after a couple years?
Was recently promoted after 2 years, skipping Senior Associate title. In Growth, but there's some parallels
I would proactively take on everything I possibly could, unless doing so would step on somebody's toes or I had 100% no clue what was going on. I ended up negotiating an LOI for a platform deal with minimal outside input and sourcing / signing an add-on that doubled the size of another portfolio company.
I knew I would screw some things up with this approach... but my mindset was that the things I would do correctly would outweigh that (and my firm has enough internal controls that it wasn't possible / likely to irreparably ruin something). It was a bit of a risk, but in the end everybody above me appreciated that I was taking things off their plates, anticipating what they would do, and showing that I could handle higher-level work.
What about between the VP and Director level? If a VP pretty clearly isn’t on the promotion track what would they do? Is it likely that they lateral over to another bank?
I skipped associate 3 and went to vp1 and got the highest bonus for associate 2 in the company.
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