Recently laid off - interviews
Recently laid off due to non-performance cost cutting at my bank. Have always been solidly top bucket and have good references. Problem is, my industry group did little to no modeling so my “technical skills” were at an all time high when I interviewed 3+ years ago. Would consider myself pretty top notch at RFPs, project management, content creation, and everything else that falls under coverage.
I am hesitant to jump into lateral IB interviews right now without taking a significant amount of time to prepare and re-learn how to model and answer 400 guide questions. Assuming I can speak to my deals and am a normal human, how much do I realistically need to prepare on the technical front? How would this answer change for a Senior Associate interview in PE?
Following
Hey man - couple questions
1) what industry did you cover?
2) wdym 3+ years ago. You came in as MBA associate or analyst 1?
3) Is this LMM or where in the stack was your bank?
4) how does an associate have no modeling experience/how would 400 guide question help? Shouldn't you have all that down?
The reason I ask is because knew a guy in a similar situation but he was at a known BB and, while he got laid off, he had all of the modeling experience bcuz group did it/he started as an analyst 1.
All reasonable questions. Won't specify coverage to keep anonymity but think TMT, Industrials, consumer at a well regarded BB. I came in as an MBA ASO. Would imagine I would have gotten a lot more modeling experience at a LMM. I feel like this is a dirty secret they don't tell you during recruiting, but actual finance is a very small part of being a BB coverage banker. Maybe my bank was unique, but I don't think so based on friends at other banks.
Product teams took essentially all of the more intensive modeling work. At most we worked on a base / downside / sponsor case for internal memos, which I would do in my first 1.5 years and check in the last 2. If I had a template and some time I would be fine. It's more so that I haven't truly cranked out an LBO or DCF since my MBA and couldn't regurgitate technical finance questions like I could when I locked myself in a library study room for 2 weeks straight to cram for interviews. I'm really hoping to avoid doing that again, hence my post.
What I can do pretty well is listen to an MD rattle off 50 absurdly vague pages that may or may not already exist (he insists they do) for a pitch or client meeting, create a shell, split the work with my analyst, ping some poor soul(s) in the product team(s), force India to pull my comps, force [insert Eastern European country here] to make some pretty slides, let the VP know he can enjoy his dinner at Tao and fuck off for the night, follow up with the poor bastard(s) on the product team, let the United Nations know they fucked up the comps and the slides and how to fix them, and bang out a pretty flawless deck in 48 hours while managing the execution of a few live deals. Has to be worth something!
I'm wondering if I'm going to be trapped in a room at some bank (or buyside shop if I hypothetically grow a pair and try to leave banking) and forced to try to create a model from scratch with no notes or template. Or, potentially even worse, if I'm going to have relive my recurring nightmare of some way-to-giddy first year VP asking me 338(h)10 elections. Hint: I don't know but I do know how to google it the once a quarter it's relevant.
This all screams JPM to me
Very underrated skill
Sounds like JMP to me (JM Porgan)
You are an Analyst killer. Pure delegator. Your doing a VP’s job. You need to get your hands dirty. Open the ppt, open excel, actually do stuff.
Bill Keenan is that you?
You should break down your prep into these buckets (for either IB / PE) to make sure you're doing more than other candidates:
Technicals
1) Knowing the guides like the back of your hand (this should be table stakes)
2) Working on LBO / DCF / 3 statement models with different scenarios, from scratch. This helps reinforce the technicals you learn from the guides and also spotlights things the guides don't cover.
3) Being able to speak intelligently as you can about your deals - the quantitative metrics, the why's (why did the buyer sell this now, why does this asset have a comparative advantage) and being able to link your deal experience to convince the interviewers you can transition your skills to a new bank
Behaviorals
1) Knowing your resume cold and developing a compelling why for making the jump to that specific bank
2) Understanding the real dynamics for what interviewers look for: if you're a 3rd year assoc you need to start seeing the bigger picture about a gradual transition to developing a book of clients and moving to the VP / director roles in years to come. You should be answering any behavioral / long-term questions with that mindset accordingly.
PM me for more info if you're interested.
Not OP but PM'd!
Nightmare, but thank you
PM me also for recruiting help
Don't do this if you just got laid off
Too late, already staked, now homeless
guys, at what point do they not test technicals in interviews? if you're lateraling for a VP role, for example, will they still ask you modeling questions? how much experience do you need to have to be basically above the technical questions cause you're not expected to model but rather manage people who model?
Yes.. you need to know the technicals at your level, ESPECIALLY for buy side roles. As an associate/VP, you should be focused on perfecting the entire due diligence process which includes building financial models. Modeling tests are almost always part of the interview process.
I personally would not hesitate interviewing right now even though your modeling skills are rusty. Just tell them the truth why that is, because I think the most important thing is that you are capable of learning (or re-learning) it. It may take you a few months to get up to speed on modeling, but you still bring immense value on all the other aspects of working on deals and pitching business.
Helpful and interesting to hear this perspective from a director vs what the analysts are saying. I would imagine both levels (more senior analysts) might be involved in the lateral recruiting process in some capacity. From the other replies above it sounds like I might need to take a couple of weeks and try to fake it ‘til I make it. I wonder where the discrepancy comes from.
Maybe just different perspectives. There are no perfect candidates, everyone needs to improve in some way. I view modeling as a very teachable skill (assuming you have the capability to learn it). So I wouldn’t view it as a big negative if I was interviewing someone.
For what it’s worth, the replies so far are the exact opposite of the advice I was given or what I would give
I have heard of only one place asking an associate to model as part of an interview process
I’m also baffled by the surprise that some of the replies seem to have about lack of model reps. Are you guys really “modeling” frequently and from scratch no less? Your bank doesn’t have a bunch of templates you can work off of? And I don’t consider tweaking assumptions modeling
When I’m interviewing laterals that’s so far down the list of my concern. Your other credentials prove you can get through what you need to
This feels more similar to my experience, felt like I was taking crazy pills
My time in IB was the same. There can only be so many people holding pen to a model…
Similar situation as OP. Senior Associate, modeling test for at four different shops. Two timed. Two weekend Case Studies. The timed ones I fucked. Super rusty. Also some what apathetic coming out of the RIF.
I think asking modeling questions is more a part of the time tested interview process and is used more to measure intelligence, financial acumen and preparedness, rather than an indicator of if you can do the job.
What I mean is, at your level you’re likely not going to be building a lot of models, but you certainly will be checking them and speaking to them in internal meeting. So you should be able to answer questions about it.
And I like to ask the questions in interviews because to me, as mentioned above, it’s an easy way for me to week out the kids who put effort into preparing and can show me they understand what can be a tricky subject. To me, it’s a quick way to check someone’s intelligence and if they took time to prepare. I don’t ask anything super hard or try to trick anybody, and encourage them to walk through their thinking as opposed to just giving me an answer.
Yes, it’s annoying to have to study modeling questions when there could very well be little modeling required in the role.
On the other hand, this is banking and models are in most every credit app and pitch, and you really should know enough by now to easily talk about modeling concepts and answer a few questions.
Fair points for sure, but this is a lateral interview. The weeding out process has already occurred. It shouldn’t be the same as breaking into banking not to mention knowing how to review and model in a normal work setting versus an interview is not the same. He already has the requisite acumen or he would not have made it to begin with imo
All true, but you need to be able to distinguish between candidates somehow, and I've worked with some associates who are pretty helpless in the model and show no signs of improving
How would a lateral process already weed out weak candidates? You’ve never met a bad junior at a good bank? In fact I’d rather poach a top junior at a crappy bank like Baird than have a mediocre junior from Goldman come to my team.
You guys are acting like modeling is calculus or organic chemistry lol.
i actually disagree. i know plenty of tards at the BBs.
and to what another poster said, there must be a way to differentiate candidates. and i will very much prefer a candidate that can model when required.
given that this candidate was laid off, id actually drill them with technicals
I'll pitch in here.
All our associates go through model tests. It's vital they can build a model from scratch. I've been at a MM, Tier 2 and BB. All did model tests.
That's In both TMT coverage and M&A.
This is not because they will need to do it often, but because by doing so for a test they prove they understand the mechanics. Which proves they can check analyst work.
Granted the skills you describe are vital. And you'd be surprised how poor people are at RFPs and Execution. But sadly modelling is part of the game.
I still sometimes jump into a model and tweak it. I wasn't always in IB so I made damn sure I could model over my first few years in IB.
Ok so I’ve resigned to the fact that I’m going to have to do this. Any resources people would suggest? Wall Street prep is simply too long and in depth to effectively learn what I need for a model test imo. Looking for something geared specifically toward interviews that’s short, sweet and to the point. Might create a new thread for this (sure there are some but search function stinks), but appreciate the help!
Peak frameworks
Would also love to hear the responses here. Not sure how best you can prepare for a model test versus those long form video guides which seem like crazy overkill
and for those not ex-Jefferies:
I lateralled as an ASO2 from a BB. About 50% of the banks I interviewed with asked technicals, including Lazard, which asked about some more advanced M&A topics from the guides. Didn't have any modeling tests but I know MS gives them. Every bank focused more of the interviews on why the switch and in depth questions on the deals on your resume.
Thank you. Can you elaborate on the types of in depth questions?
Reverse Morris Trust mechanics, asset write ups/write downs in 338(h)10 elections, etc.
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