Thoughts on Tidal Partners
the title says it all..does wso believe Tidal to be the next Q? very interested to see what comes of this & how it'll effect the broader tech banking landscape.
Pls share thoughts
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Only have interacted with Handler but man is a beast. Will have to see how recruitment goes given it’s a brand new firm and likely not to get the best of the best recruiting wise. That said, man is also a big relationship deal maker so the nitty gritty numbers nah not be needed. Would assume he just continues the CVP culture and uses pay at first to incentivize joiners and work from there.
This is going to be incredibly interesting to see how it plays out. Definitely keeping an eye out
Do you think they are hiring analysts?
Bump
bump on this , curious to hear additional perspectives
Would love to hear more about this
Not sure anyone saw here yet, but a handful of new team members joined Tidal that came directly from Centerview
From what I have heard they cleaned out the Centerview Palo Alto office and most of the Tidal practice is all from there
Will be interesting to see how things go and if Centerview will end up surviving this
Appreciate the insight thanks for sharing
Nah it was 2 partners and a handful of analysts/associates. They still have the partners that they poached from BoFA tech
But can’t you assume that the group took a huge hit & that the top performing analysts/asso’s were poached? Trying to figure out what their short/long-term play is here
Don't underestimate how much revenue Tech produces for the firm(CV), however the BoA guys showed up(at CV) and were put in place over the existing people(Handler et al). Word from a friend in the SF office was that there was no notice of this, they actually read about it online. Conversation was supposedly at the highest levels with few people knowing. Not at all surprised that these guys have flown the coop. There are only about 8-10 bankers that came from CV-PA(at Tidal). I am sure both firms will do just fine. Besides, THE biggest money maker at CV is the BioPharma team globally and the firm overall has a very deep bench of highly productive partners that they didn't have 5 years ago. Not bad for a 14 year old firm.
From what I understand, Handler (who was the co-founder of CVP's tech practice) had a fallout with Pruzan and Effron; Handler had been spending more time in Miami over the last few years, and they had differences at leadership level that became untenable. Effron essentially rang the death knell with hiring of the senior BoA PA team members including Jack MacDonald. Would be very interesting to see how Tidal competes now, but Handler is a beast and he ran the Cisco and other relationships for CVP, including a lot of strategic consulting work for them. You wonder if those relationships migrate over, and if CVP PA goes on to do more traditional M&A like the rest of the firm.
I feel as though the strategic work is what really differentiated them vs the bbs & other m&a boutiques. For strictly tech m&a, the top 3 heavy hitters are widely known and for now at least, secure in their spots. Not sure if transitioning to purely m&a is a smart long-term play if they wanna compete in tech but what do I know lol…. just an intern
1. The tech market is big enough to have multiple players who do well outside of the "3 heavy hitters".
2. Its not about what's a smart long term play- its about connections, and what your partners can bring in. The ex-BofA team were M&A and coverage bankers, you can't simply expect them to start offering strategic consulting services overnight. If their experience is in in deal-making, that's where CVP PA will operate in.
3. You don't always have to differentiate yourself by doing something different (like strategic consulting). In banking, you differentiate yourself based on connections, reputation, and efficiency with which you can execute a deal. CVP is ultimately a bank, and they compete with other banks, not with McKinsey. If you want to be hired as a banker, you want to be seen as a banker - closing deals, being on deals, etc. I rarely come across them on bake-offs; I've seen them on one M&A deal now, and its run out of NY. And their recent hires are a push towards that deal making focus. MacDonald hiring is a clear example of this intent from Effron/Pruzan.
4. If you know the weeds of tech banking, you will know that one of the causes of breakdown between Effron/Pruzan and Handler was around Handler's approach towards doing more strategic work -> M&A/deal work with tech clients. CVP wants to compete and grow fast, and unfortunately, their more deal oriented success in building the biotech practice in SF (as an example) seems to have forced this change. Only time will tell if this is going to succeed (knowing CVP, they will probably make it work).
This is highly specific information 👀
I heard that apart from a few good Associates, team that left was subpar / not cut out for Partner. Handler is a beast but basically had 2 clients, that’s it. MacDonald and BofA guys were brought in to build a real tech M&A franchise, so I don’t think this news impacts CVP’s strategy that much. I haven’t heard much about the other David from Tidal but seems like he’s just Handler’s execution guy.
So you think there won’t be any long-term effects of this/repercussions faced by cvp?
Are they set at the partner level in that case & just need to attract more juniors?
Only time will tell but I wouldn’t expect much of an impact given 1) Handler looks like he was being pushed out anyways 2) Tech strategy seems to be more balanced between traditional M&A and “strategic advisory” as per the previous post (and ex BofA team better positioned to push this strategy forward). Not familiar with the other Partners but my guess is they need to attract more juniors (which shouldn’t be an issue given the CVP brand).
I think the question you should be asking is why the top associates (all of them) left Centerview’s new tech leadership to join a startup - it appears to be a complete talent drain at that level, which is the lifeblood of any well oiled group and hardest level to replace. They would’ve made a lot of money more or less guaranteed on an established platform. The outlook must be very bad or they are extremely confident with the prospects of Title (both?). Presumably they acted rationally as top performers to join a strong senior team. Was told that all of the west coast tech deal flow over the past 12-18 months came from the departing partners, which is ironic because the baml partners most definitely got massive guarantees from Centerview.
(From a NY VP) The partners from baml have been unable to provide the strategic advice that clients expect from a boutique and that the remaining MD/VP layer is weak with order takers. A former menlo bofa banker, this checks out and ultimately why I left the bank to join a m&a focused bb. With few exceptions, baml was always 2nd or 3rd seat and this is not likely to change as these senior partners sunset at centerview.
The reality is that tech banking/investing is far more dispersed and varied - and you see this "weird" co-mingling across banks/tech startups/VCs- bankers frequently leave to join investor firms or tech companies (most recently- one of the co-heads of Evercore office joining a fintech along with other senior bankers); tech FP&A/Corp Dev people move to banking at both mid/senior levels (more common than non tech industry folks moving to banking); you see tech folks starting VC firms with ex-bankers. Number of mid/senior bankers are co-investors in VCs. Even Larry Sonsini (the lawyer), has a VC fund that takes equity stakes in company he/WSGR advise on. Some boutiques take equity stake in companies they advise as form of fees. I'm at an EB and some of our advisors/senior people are straight off tech/VC people who had little background in banking prior.
Its for this reason that people move around to join boutiques/one man firms/new firms - its experience and progression mostly. You might be offered equity in platform; you might be offered chance to launch an investment platform along with advisory; you might want to build close relationships with VCs (some VCs work closely with some advisors including bankers on strategic matters leading to sale of portfolio co). LionTree is a good example, but there are others too, if you dig around. And let's not forget- 2008, Q was the breakaway firm from CS; arguably Frank Q in 2008 was more prolific than Handler in 2022, but you can see the similarities. Tech has a long tradition of uprooting the incumbents, and tech banking is no different.
If you look through the investors that are backing Tidal Partners, you will get a good idea of who their backers are, and you will get a fair idea of why some of the CVPs existing team left to join Tidal, and how Tidal may want to play in this field.
This is a very good post and I agree with everything except the part about Senior EVR bankers leaving? That's not true.
Didn't Raine do something very similar with Ari Emanuel's Endeavor? They've been on all their big deals and I read an old article either on WSJ/FT (I think) that the founders of Raine were good friends with Ari and Ari decided to invest in them. Not sure how prolific Sine and Ravitch were pre-Raine but I think they were stiff competitors prior to working together and Ravitch was a GS Partner.
I think there are good points in here, but some that are missing. For MDs who are used to carrying the business card of a large bank along with the ability to use the balance sheet to secure more lucrative business, leaving and going to any strategic advisory firm is a big gut check. Many can't do it. they have no idea if clients are really theirs or their firm's. Most of them do NOT get big guarantees, they usually get revenue deals with larger payouts in year 1 and/or 2 for having made the move. So if they are successful, they will make outsized income for that time period and then make usually 2-3x of what they could make as an MD at a bulge.
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Lol was thinking this too – especially given cvp’s rep as top comp shop
Anyone get an interview here for full time 2023?
Bump
One of the seniors at the bank told me they may have only one spot left... not looking good
Bump
Any info on their SA 2023 process? I go to a non-target but had an opportunity circulate through the finance club and they said interested people can send an email to some tidal associated email.
Yeah, I got a first round interview invite (target, non-diversity) from them a couple weeks ago. Turned it down because I had already signed with another bank. They're recruiting heavily from targets and circulating invites via their finance/IB clubs.
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