Transferring from nontarget finance to T20 economics?
If I go to my big state flagship (think Penn State, UF, UMD) everyone says "you gotta major in finance with a concentration in corporate finance, call every alum from the Class of 1950 onwards at every MM from the Redwood Forest to the Gulf Stream waters for networking, AND memorize the position of every comma in the Rosenbaum and Pearl book," but then they also say transfer out to a Ivy or T20 for an infinitely better network... however, the issue with transferring is that most target schools don't have a finance major (so I'll have to study arts/sci economics once I get there), so that creates 3 problems:
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For admissions, while I'm grinding classes like intro a marketing and intro to information systems (which are core classes that all business students must take before delving into finance), I'm demonstrating an absolutely terrible fit into the so-called "liberal arts" and "open curriculum" environment where the traditional disciplines are the norm... lol no one wants to admit another investment banker instead of a philosophical sociology major, and me doing finance and not being in arts/sci screams this.
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Even if with the grace of god I get admitted, all my business classes are trashed down the drain whereas if I had just done econ or math I could've graduated normally.
...on the other hand, the big issue is that if I risk it and stick it out with an economics degree at the state flagship, which is not even IN the business school (thereby shutting off all hopes of building even a tiny network and grinding away the Rosenbaum and Pearl book) and DO NOT get a T20 transfer admission, I'm royally fucked++++...
- The business schools at T20s like Wharton, Tepper, Stern, and Dyson, including top publics like McIntire, Haas, and Ross, are mind-bendingly competitive for transfers, and being limited to those 5 is doomed too. On the other hand, b-schools like USC Marshall, WUSTL Olin, UNC KF, or BC CSOM are semis at best
Thanks! Any help?
Based on the most helpful WSO content, let's break down your situation and concerns regarding transferring from a non-target finance program to a T20 economics program:
Admissions Fit:
Credit Transferability:
Risk of Not Transferring:
Regarding the competitiveness of business school transfers, it's true that programs like Wharton, Tepper, Stern, and Dyson are highly competitive. However, don't discount the value of semi-target schools. Many successful finance professionals have come from semi-targets, and with a strong GPA, solid internships, and networking, you can still break into investment banking or your desired field.
In summary, weigh the pros and cons of transferring versus staying, considering the potential loss of credits, the strength of the network at T20 schools, and the competitiveness of the transfer process. Remember, success in finance often comes down to individual drive and resourcefulness, regardless of the school you attend.
Sources: Should Successful students at "non-targets" transfer to targets?, del, Should I transfer from my T20 semi-target to a stronger target?, The Case for Choosing a Non-Target, https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/didnt-make-it-to-a-target-now-what?customgpt=1
Went to UMD for undergrad a few years ago.(did Econ). Now have MBB offer in mid 20s, but didn’t make it directly.
Didn’t even attempt front office BB banking or MBB consulting straight out of undergrad knowing my profile. I vaguely knew a couple of the kids who did, but they were true rarities.
Honestly in your position, if you were one of the very few to be able to land high finance and not already know someone, you would also be competive for transfers, which would make the recruiting process easier. Kill your classes and get involved to make this possible. I think aiming for Econ programs at targets makes sense. But you don’t really have to choose much your first year anyways besides to do well and get your app ready.
Taking micro + math + intro finance class 1 sem.(rest can be fluff gen eds) And macro + accounting + stat the other semester or whatever the exact requirements are to apply to the internal b school would enable you to not really have to make a final major decision that first year. And intro finance and accounting are good concepts to understand anyways.
Finally, the B school recruiting at least at UMD is only really helpful for like the big 4 tier business jobs and lower. But those are possible from Econ if you hustle and add a quantitative element , such as a minor in CS or stat or something which you should do anyways. Minoring in math or stat lets you access the Math departments pipeline and recruiting opportunities as well which is a nice perk. And this leaves you otherwise well equipped in the general employment market to eventually reach your goals if you cannot do it the direct way, and need to make some further career or educational moves to get to your goal.
Edit: read your UVA UMD post. If you’re a senior making this decision, take the guaranteed UVA wise -> UVA Econ transfer every day of the week over UMD for prestige finance roles. I would much rather be a UVA Econ student sophomore year than UMD for what you’re interested in.
As someone who transferred to a pretty prestigious target from a state school (not to blow my own horn here ;)), I can tell you that the school on your diploma is an appreciating asset. Transfer to the best school possible, and apply the non-target mentality to grinding there. That name, and the fact that you got in from where you did, will open doors for you that you never knew existed, and will ultimately allow you to have greater socio-economic mobility. No matter the cost, an education is never a bad investment, provided you work hard and make the most of opportunities.
Oh cool, can you tell me a bit more about transferring? Like GPA/SAT, ECs, and essays (i.e reasons for leaving)?
Personally, my "reason" for leaving is that I'm "stuck" in vocational fields like finance at my state school and if I don't leave ASAP, I'll never be able to pursue the liberal arts (aka the easy ass sociology/science geneds I did as a freshmen) again since I like it so much lol. And then I have a few volunteering leadership ECs, so I'll discuss how each college has really good volunteering programs. In all this, I plan to enter as a sociology major although I'll switch to econ the nanosecond I get there cz t20s often assume econ = goldman slut, ESPECIALLY given my current finance major on the transcript.
THANKS A TON man - so you see, I'm waltzing in with 45 AP credits, so I can easily afford to entirely waste one full year with bullshit gened easy electives because 1. they are all easy As (to transfer to a top t20 you NEED NEED NEED as close to a 4.0 as possible throughout freshman year) and 2. since no t20s have business degrees (other than rice, cornell, and upenn which are all near impossible to transfer into), they usually strongly dislike excessive accounting and finance courses cz they never transfer over and convey a lack of fit for the liberal arts curriculum. Therefore, I've devised this no A- schedule for freshman yr (when I plan to leave UMD) and pls tell me how it looks:
BMGT 110 (Miller) SOCY 201 (Branigan)
SOCY 100 (Branigan) ENGL 390 (Reynells)
AOSC 200/201 (Canty) GEOG 140 (Yearwood)
ECON 185 (Abassi) COMM 107
SOCY 224 (Marsh) ARTH 260 (McEwen)
*P.S, I finished AP Macroecon, AP Microecon, and Calc BC in HS, am taking BMGT 220/221 in CC this spring and summer since I heard that every person in UMD fails them (the assignments are curved down to a B- apparently), and instead of BMGT 230 I'm taking SOCY 201 (which I heard is an easier statistics substitute). I failed college admissions once due to my horrendous 3.7 HS GPA, I'm not failing again. Also, PLEASE LET ME KNOW ANY OTHER EASY-A ELECTIVES!!!!
Edit: About UVA - there's doggie style competition for every SA opening and club opening, especially in CAS, whereas I don't think that level of interest/competition is there at UMD... does this help?
Also came in w/ a ton of AP credits which does make structuring it easier. Use that to your advantage.
First of all, seriously do UVA if interested in high finance. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. You could be a decent but not great student there and get like a 3.5 or so and still be in the running for banking, while if you were the equivalent student at UMD or the transfer app process is unlucky, you’re stuck.
Second if really sure about UMD, which is not what I’d do in your position, consult planetterp or one of the sites that put together all the FOIA’d grade data and use that to select profs easier on your gpa. Also take one of the intermediate Econ courses(macro or micro) I believe a 300 level Econ class is required for a finance major anyways, and you should seriously take some real Econ if trying to transfer into a school for Econ, particularly as Econ programs are often more quantitative at better schools. Finally, don’t do the sociology cop out math. Do some real math but only if you’re confident in your abilities. (I believe stat 400 is an acceptable course sub, double check me, but it is the first calc 2 based stat class and is useful for understanding econometrics or minoring anyways). For those profs, only had Abassi. Liked him but don’t have much to comment on beyond that.
Thanks - so with UVA, I'm *pretty* sure I can pull the guaranteed transfer cz I've seen some rlly stupid people do it at my school, but not 100% since it's goddamn UVA and 85% of applicants get their apps shredded...
But transferring out into CAS econ is ridiculously easy (like the avg admitted GPA is a 3.5) after UMD, whereas the McIntire business school is massively harder (avg GPA of 3.87 with hella business extracurriculars - they made it a 3 yr program lately), and the mammoth issue is that I have to chose one or the other (i.e when transferring, I have to either lock myself into the mediocre CAS or take a gamble on McIntire, and if I get rejected from McIntire, I'm rejected from the university as a whole with no 2nd choice) - assuming a 3.9+, would you suggest a risk or econ? Econ is a semi at best but McIntire is an Ivy-level target.
How guaranteed was the “guaranteed transfer” you were discussing in the other post? You mentioned a UVA-Wise-> UVA arts and sciences guaranteed transfer. I took that at face value and assumed it was part of the admissions offer or an agreement they have and you are aware of.
If truly guaranteed, take that every day. If instead you go to UMD, honestly hire a transfer apps coach and discuss strat and app composition with them. A few Gs is more than worth the value of a potential admission to a target if interested in finance.
Edit:Would also like to add UVA Econ will still have 10x+ the number of placements that are possible from UMD Finance. Trust me in that if you consider UVA CAS Econ mediocre, you will be sorely disappointed in UMD. If you mess up 1-2 classes any chance of non-guaranteed transfers to the schools you want disappears. And even if you do well, what if you get unlucky? These processes are super selective and not everything is predictable. I had a great time in undergrad, but it’s simply not the place you’re looking for for high finance.
My route to elite roles has to have been much longer and more expensive than yours could be if you take my advice on this. Do not trade any sort of guarantee of UVA Econ for a chance to shoot higher. The gamble could pay off, but risk adjusted value for that is not there imo.
Also looked it up and transfer program for those waitlisted in state CAS requires you get a 3.0 and a few specific classes then you’re auto-in to UVA CAS year 2. If you fail that it’s your fault. And a 3.0 safeguard to get into UVA is a lot better than little to no margin of error to transfer to a T20
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