Got offer for IB SA 2021 for both CS and GS and have tomorrow to decide, reason I'm leaning towards CS is bc of culture and usually higher return rates, except this year. Will next year return rates be higher or is this the new norm if anybody knows? GS has great name but didn't love the people I spoke to and return rates are sometimes very low. Am I crazy to be leaning towards CS?
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Current analyst at CS. Depends what group at GS. GS is almost universally across the board better in terms of dealflow and exits (although I still think that the candidate matters far more than the bank) but I've heard horror stories about GS, including from some of my best friends, and their culture. If you're at a top 3 or 4 group at CS I'd consider it, but it really depends on how much you value the culture / are able to get a gauge
return rates also, I heard CS Return rates were pretty high before this year correct? Do you think it'll become that high next summer?
They were still high this past summer, actually (~80%). No idea what will happen next summer but CS really does have room for nearly every intern (I think my group has to cut 1 generally but thats it)
What are the top 4 groups at CS?
Sponsors, M&A, Industrials, REGAL, TMT
Definitely not crazy choosing CS over GS. I've also heard some really bad things about the culture at GS, but at the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either place.
depends on what you would like to pursue long term. i would recommend GS for better exits.
Would recommend GS. Don't focus on the return rates. Gotta thrive to be the best intern in your group.
IB interns at GS can still do top buyside grad recruiting (BX, Bain, Audax, GA, Millenium and some HFs), or go to JPM, EVR, Lazard etc. CS not really.
Same CS analyst as above. GS doesn't really boost exits, I think, and you'll get plenty of good looks at a decent group at CS (I am going to one of the top MM firms, think Leonard Green, Berkshire Partners, GTCR, etc.) and if you're a great candidate you're a great candidate. That being said, GS is a better brand name but I do think the difference is fairly marginal across BBs (like in PE no one cares where you come from beyond maybe mild surprise if you're from a MM bank). I agree that you shouldn't focus too much on returns because the goal is to be a top intern, but culture is the MOST important thing by far. I emphasize that because it will make a huge difference to your happiness / more tangibly, how well you perform. It matters how you do as an analyst and if you are miserable, you won't do as well. For FT I had an offer at a notoriously sweaty but better bank, and turned it down knowing that I got along with my group and would likely perform worse / be miserable in the other bank.
Don't take my word or anyone else on this forum's word for culture, though. Do your own research (if you have time) and see for yourself where you would fit in better. In case you don't have the time to do that, I can give my thoughts based on my friend's experiences (I live with two other bankers and am friends with many from school across every major BB and EB). Culture is mostly group-dependent, but CS is known to have a better culture (note that hours does not equal culture though, my hours are worse than my friends at other banks but I Feel respected by my seniors, no FaceTime, and strong junior camaraderie) than most banks, along with Barclays / BAML / CVP. GS is known to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, and I have heard absolute horror stories about some of the groups (especially Industrials, but also FIG, NatRes, CRG, and Healthcare. I haven't heard anything about TMT but also don't know anyone in the group) about the lack of respect for junior time and quasi-abusive behavior of the seniors / mid-level people
Would agree with the above sentiment. Goldman is typically the highest standard but I’d strongly consider CS if you can get into one of the top groups. A lot of others don’t realize the significance of having a 90% return rate (at CS) vs. Goldman’s ~60%. Basically, if you’re worth your salt as a SA, you’re guaranteed a really great job for the next three years. As we’re mired in a deep recession right now, that is huge. Especially considering that the difference between top groups at CS and solid groups at Goldman is marginal at best. CS, like GS, places really well into PE. Good luck with whatever you decide. Can’t go wrong with either.
Agreed -- one other note is that if you're not a good fit for the culture, there is a high chance you won't get a return at GS. Most interns there are competent, and so they'll cut based on fit and whether you enjoy the culture / the group likes you.
Thanks for all the advice guys I went with Goldman!
Can you give a hint of which group it was? I have already accepted an offer, was just curious.
*gets unanimous advice to go with CS* including own inclination and then posts above lol
Hope you took the offer!
I would choose GS IBD classic over CS. Unless it's something like GS Real Estate, GS has the better platform, recognition, and network.
How did you get an offer from both banks so late in the process? I thought they each wrapped up a couple of months ago.
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