VP at an EB: Great Comp - Dead End Long Term
VP at a top EB here. Comp is excellent and, candidly, I could probably ride it for another ~2–3 years. But increasingly feels like the role is optimized for short-term cash extraction rather than long-term career building.
As a VP, you’re essentially a high-end execution body - lots of responsibility, little real exposure to clients, and almost no structured path to building a book. The “MD path” feels less like development and more like survival + politics unless you already have relationships coming in.
Which raises the question: is the rational move to just take the money while it’s there and exit before your utility as an execution VP runs out?
Considering whether it makes sense to:
- Stay, collect comp, and plan a corporate / strategy exit while still marketable
- Or jump to a BB M&A group, take a real pay cut, but at least be on a platform where MD is an actual path
Also curious how exits differ at junior VP vs senior VP - does staying longer actually improve options, or does it just make you more “banker-shaped” with fewer exits?
Would appreciate thoughts from anyone who’s been through EB VP life or made the EB to BB move
I made the move to a BB as a Director after A through VP in top boutiques. I had a great gig but saw the dead end and so many good people above me stuck and didn’t want that.
It was really tough - it’s not just the drop in the comp, but also at a top boutique you are someone (less so now as those firms have grown) whereas as a Director in a BB you’re just another cog in the wheel.
I didn’t last - I spent four years, didn’t get the MD slot - and went back to an environment I was most comfortable with. I never fully fit in.
But for my career, in the long run, it was brilliant. I learned how to properly cover clients and about financing and ECM and all the things you don’t see at a boutique. I also was in a client coverage seat and built great relationships which I parlayed into partner seats at boutiques.
great insights. would you do it again or stay at EB and collect some dólares?
almost exactly same spot as OP
See the answer above. It was worth it but it probably took 5-6 years for that to play out in practice.
Very helpful insights. I am a senior VP and also don’t see a path to MD. Just curious how you exited to your non-banking job after your Director years? Feel it is hard as the number of opportunities is limited and difficult to address the why leave banking question
For the avoidance of doubt, I never left banking. I was able to relationships to an MD role at a strong advisory oriented boutique (I hate the term EB) and eventually a partner role, and eventually after that a team head role. I wouldn’t have been able to do that had I not spent those years in the BB learning how to cover clients, learning product and building relationships. There was definitely a J curve to it, but it paid off immensely in the end.
Similar spot considering similar move. How would you think of more mid ranked BBs (not JPM/MS/GS)?
You will pull your hair out over the bureaucracy
could you please elaborate?
When you say Politics what you mean? (What does 'politics' look like for a VP at an EB?
Not the person you were replying to,
Not the person you were replying to, but I think what he’s saying is that politics in mid-BBs are pretty awful (I can attest to this from experience). By “politics” basically you find in mid-tier banks that everyone is fighting over a structurally shrinking piece of the pie - on deals you will have random MDs desperate for any deal credits jumping on random calls to “suggest ideas” or create busywork. Likewise other desks in the bank will constantly trip to rip you off to boost their margins if you need their services on a deal (and you can’t go to other counter parties outside the bank for obvious reputational reasons).
And in a smaller BB bank you’ll find that IB frequently isn’t the strategic focus for management, meaning that getting the necessary help from Legal or Risk is always difficult. As some in house lawyer or regulatory risk guy is probably coasting by earning a decent salary and clocking off by 6pm - they’re not going to move mountains (or indeed do anything) to preserve the tight timelines you have a on a deal. And because IB isn’t considered the top focus for the organization, even your MD can’t exert much pressure - Risk or Compliance can just say they’re too busy with other stuff to accommodate you for another month (even if they all go home by 5 each day). God help you if you work for a European bank as they are practically run by their risk departments these days.
And even comp wise, your team might do an amazing job and generate tons of fees. But if senior management don’t know who you are, it’s easy for others to take credit eg the useless MDs I referenced earlier, who have coasted for years by talking a good game and managing up, and taking credit for other people’s work as much as possible.
Speaking from experience this can really suck, especially when as an analyst/associate you tend to think of banking as relatively meritocratic. Once you get to VP in mid BBs you start to get exposed to all this stuff and realize it really isn’t about who is the best unfortunately.
Spot on assessment. Was at the quintessential “mid tier” BB and people spent more time fighting over deal credit, fees etc than actually helping the client. Comp was awful too
I too work at BofA
At UBS tech, I once saw 6 MDs on a friggin CIP review call for a tiny SW client. All had zero deal flow, were just chasing for creds and was non-stop making BS comments / ideas about what they thought should be added to the deck to "make the message more powerful". Absolute trolls, beyond pathetic. Was getting no real deal rep so left for a boutique and never regretted my decision. Oh, and that process still failed and half of the MDs (along with the vps and directors) who were on that deal were fired the following year.
A standalone BB M&A group is also a dead end. If you don't hold the relationships, you're just a glorified 'smart guy' they can leverage for complex work/conversations.
As an AN1 I'd think being the smart guy is a nice gig. Whats the alternative you're suggesting?
As a VP in a similar situation to OP, being known as the smart guy is an excellent way to develop your career - up to a point, as it definitely has a ceiling (speaking from my own experience here unfortunately).
Don’t get me wrong, if your niche is being the smart guy you will likely progress quickly through the analyst and associate ranks and be paid very well. The problem is that it has a ceiling - you get to the point where as a VP you are pretty expensive for a guy who runs models and executes deals, and if you don’t have relationships with clients etc it becomes very difficult to progress to MD or even Director level.
I’ve experienced this myself - don’t get me wrong, my current comp would be considered good by most standards, and certainly myself as an analyst would have been impressed. But you reach a ceiling as you basically get told “we pay you a lot, anyone can run models or a deal, why should we promote you or pay you more?” Whereas a D who knows everyone in the industry is likely to get promoted to MD, as if he moves banks the company might lose the client. The smart VP leaves? Yes it will suck but ultimately they’ll just throw multiple analysts and associates who will eventually manage to figure his stuff out.
Surely the 40 yr old MD 20 years from now is a current 20-year-old killing themselves daily to be a smart and dependable guy. How do you even begin the transition from being an execution body to a 'book builder'?
That is probably a more nuanced answer. I joined banking as a post-MBA (so my associate years were through my early 30s) and made it to MD by 40. There's a few different ways it can play out
a. Your MD ages out and you are his/her favorite and they start making you primary on accounts. This requires you to be a relatively young D with a relatively old MD above you and not a lot of other Ds covering your industry to compete with (or maybe you're just better than all of them)
b. You find a niche within the industry that is growing / underserved. So if you're covering semis, maybe you start becoming really smart around ASICs as that is a space that is moving so fast, it's hard to devote time as an MD to reading up on it every day. If you pick the subvertical well, it may grow from a niche to a mainstream, bankable industry and you become 'that' guy
c. You find a very strong MD at a reputable bank, do a lot of execution (knowing your MD will not give you accounts in the near term), start to know the cients and then dip to a downmarket bank to become an MD....keep in mind the 'downmarket bank' may pay just as highly. This strategy is riskier though because you are basically betting on yourself to run a franchise without any actual MD experience
What does “making you primary on his accounts” really even mean? Just introducing you to clients as the person “taking over” and designating you as lead banker on internal deal credit tracking?
Very helpful insights. As a VP3/D, how can I become a trusted advisor to the CEOs/CFOs? How can you build out client books from zero? Do you win their trust by constantly offering valuable advice/ideas, or any other ways?
For context, I work in a coverage group at an international BB type bank. We offer all products like US BBs but are quite M&A focused. Overall the bank is not strong in the US. My MD is a young and junior MD and when I asked him these questions, he honestly said he has no clue either. The industry I cover is big so there is plenty of companies out there for me to explore and my MD is supportive of having me run independently but I feel clueless and don’t know how I can do this effectively.
For the reason of lacking mentorship on client building side, I am also thinking whether I should jump to a stronger platform. I started speaking with some mid-ranked BBs and am debating whether I should make the move now for better mentorship or stay and hustle (I have built reputation at current bank and worry about director promotion risk if switching to a new bank).
Appreciate any insights to the above.
Dude it sounds great - clip that fat VP check till you can, coast around, and then never look back at this insane industry. You'll have enough to forever be 'rich' (assuming you don't blow it away) and you can get a well-paying and lower-stress corporate gig, while focusing on family and enjoying life. Fuck the MD/Partner path at a BB.
Just an analyst here but second this. In this seat for a bag time, not a long time.
What title and compensation is reasonable in Corp Dev when exiting at the VP3 - D2 level
Currently at BB from analyst to VP… thinking about cashing in the name by going to EB and get out in 2-4 years… is it crazy?!
Are there any EBs that one would recommend that could ‘build out’ career bankers similar to CVP (e.g., MOE, EVR, etc)? Or is it still generally a safer bet to lateral to a BB after starting and working at an EB for 1–2 years if that's your only choice?
The first step is to stop prestige whoring based on what you see on this online zoo, and to find a team at a decent bank that fits the person you are.
Some might say cvp is more prestigious than gs, some might say ms is better than moelis... All these banks are great, the comp is great, the deals are great. Find the right team and your career will follow naturally (and you often won't even get to choose from all these options)
I understand, and I agree; moreover, I’m not making a point about prestige, although I climbed my way up from an unknown regional bank to a no-name NYC bank and then to an EB. I agree with the point about finding the right group, and I know which groups are considered “best” for my industry coverage. That said, I do entertain the idea of a long-term IB career. As such, I’ve heard some on this forum advise moving from an EB to a BB (specifically) for the broader platform and the ability to build a book of clients, with the option to move back to an EB later if desired, as many EBs aren’t necessarily focused on developing career bankers. I think it would be a disservice to ignore this potential reality.
I mentioned the two banks simply as examples—CVP because they apparently do a “good job” in this regard, which may be an outlier for an EB (and have one of the strongest industry groups of interest - and I'm sure for many on this forum as well), and the other EB because I know / heard they often espouse a philosophy of building from within and carving out your own path with some support, even if they may not have the strongest industry coverage of interest.
So, in short, I was wondering whether moving from an EB (a lower-tier industry coverage group that is still building itself out) to a BB (with stronger industry coverage, a broader platform, and a track record of developing career bankers) might be a better move than “waiting it out” in the name of loyalty. Even if you were to make it to ED, you would then be expected to originate; and if you stayed the entire time, you might be behind the curve compared to someone who strategically moved from an EB to a BB, thereby gaining earlier exposure to broader service offerings or joining say... e.g., CVP with the best coverage group of interest much earlier with the chance to carry on clients, etc.
prob not what you want to hear but rx at most boutiques still mints new MDs
RX is the exception where being "the smart guy" to use the term above matters more than relationships unlike coverage/cap mkts/M&A because of the complex nature of RX deals and the fact that most companies don't restructure more than once so no one can exactly be building a long-term relationship with the team. That, combined with the fact that RX advisory universe is much smaller, means that all [ 5 ] of the main RX shops have a decent shot most of the time. Where relationships do matter is with creditors since the same funds will show up in the same situations time and again, but here also, given how small the industry is, everybody at reputable RX shops builds those relationships anyway. The flip side for ambitious smart analysts/associates/VPs/etc. is the industry is a fraction of the size of M&A and you have to deal with sh*tty f*cked up companies in stressful situations with some pretty unpleasant personalities. Also, while the sexy debtor mandates you read about in WSJ are cool, a lot of the bread and butter RX fees come from LMEs for sh*tty broken sponsor backed businesses that will eventually hand over the keys.
I know way too many VPs who chilled and got stuck as Directors with no book of business or client base.
GREAT exit opportunities are hard to come by the more senior you get if you’re not developing a network.
This is all to say that if you want to clip a few more checks so be it but plan your departure in parallel.
But why is this the case? Surely at a minimum you’d be pretty well qualified to be CFO or Corp dev head for one of your sponsor-client portco’s in the space you’ve covered?
How delusional do you have to be to think to that a plain-vanilla IB VP would be a good CFO at a PE portco.
The archetypical CFO is rather a 45-50 year old Joe with average credentials in terms of University background, etc., but 20+years of experience in finance departments, knowing FP&A, Tax, Accounting, Mgmt. Reporting, Audits, etc. inside out. On top of that comes people management.
How would a banking VP just step over and fulfill that role?
Now don't get me wrong this transition is possible if you put in the work but "well qualified to be a CFO" is a drastic exaggeration. Managing M&A deals and being CFO is worlds apart.
I would agree on well-qualified for the corp. dev department of a large blue-chip firm where the job will be in essence managing M&A transactions (incl. diligence, advisors, etc.).
Is it crazy to go down market from a top EB to find more work life balance? Maybe with a geographic switch from NYC to one of the southern regionals? When would it make the most sense to make that switch?
Yeah, that would be a pretty crazy choice, tbh. If WLB is the priority, then going into Corp Dev and positioning yourself at a company of interest makes more sense. I don’t know your industry focus, but there are many AI and DefenseTech companies (growth-stage, not startups) thriving right now, with very interesting exit opportunities and trajectories driven largely by brand and reputation alone. Read any public policy journal and you’ll quickly see where the money is flowing—and there are plenty of exciting areas to grow, IMO.
Makes sense, had a buddy who did this and he has a sweet life as an M&A MD in Atlanta. Makes seven figures and lives like a king and golfs five days a week
Did you see the net worth thread. There are MDs there claiming to have pulled in 10mm+ this past year. Would you believe that based on the busy year?
What kind of bank?
Anyone do the reverse BB to EB as VP?
The duality of man either stay at sterling cooper or join McCann
Im happy to give my perspective; i've been at both a top BB and an EB.
I've had many classmates go on to pursue path out of school where they aggressively pursued the top EBs over most other BB seats (other than a select few like GS TMT MS certain teams, CS Sponsors back in the day, etc).
The reality is that compensation is a very important driver, but the compensation in banking in the long term comes from your connections and experience.
A top BB coverage experience (not just M&A) will almost always win over most other EBs. What OP is struggling from is a struggle everyone has gone through (and one I've seen personally having worked at both a BB and EB)- the reality is that in most EBs, the rainmakers were laterals from BBs/other shops and they have built and guarded their own business lines well. At an EB, you execute for these rainmakers. EBs train you to be excellent at execution - and that's pretty much it.
At late VP/Director level, the focus is really on client coverage- and very rarely would clients be entirely focused just on M&A. If you understand equity, debt and M&A piece of things (experience you get sitting in coverage at a BB), you will almost always become a more valuable partner to a CEO/CFO.
My experience at a BB has been fundamentally more well rounded and I'm able to work directly with MDs to cover many of their accounts thanks to the turnover that constantly happens at these BBs. Contrast that to my EB experience, which was 90% execution and 10% doing pitch decks. Great M&A experience, but gets boring after 5 deals, and I got no exposure to debt or equity side of things. At BB- I can meaningfully discuss coverts, debt raises, IPOs, M&A, acquisition financing, refinancing, all of it - and that is a very important perspective to have as an advisor.
If banking is the long term goal, in my mind, a top BB experience (i cant speak for mid-tier ones because people seem to have different experiences) is critical at associate/VP/Director levels. After that, its a lot easier to lateral on - my BB has produced many partners/MDs at other EBs - in fact its a long standing joke that people work at top BB and go on to get paid as MDs at an EB. We see this happen still every year. Majority of partners in my coverage area in EBs are from the top 2/3 BBs including mine. My only caveat about BB would be the occasional political nature of these organizations - that often burns people out because they get staffed with tough MDs / accounts.
If I were to do my career again, I would very much focus on being at a BB for as long as I can before considering the EB route. The connections and experience pays for itself in the long term - and that's where the big bucks matter (compared to being paid more at an EB at junior level).
If you were advising a VP3 at an EB, would you suggest trying to move to a top BB now or waiting until you got the ED promotion first?
Also how would you go about persuading a BB to take you in if your only banking experience is at an EB. But pre MBA experience was all at the same sector if that helps.
I am not finding any BBs (much less top) interesting in hiring from EBs so it seems like a tough sell
I wouldn’t wait. You need tenure at one of those places for an MD promotion.
I also wouldn’t target limit myself to GS / MS / JPM and indeed wouldnt prioritize them. They are top firms for a reason because they have distinct cultures (has anyone noticed how pin drop silent it is at Morgan Stanley), limited turnover and strongly favor people who grow up in their culture.
I think you have a higher probability of making an impact at a Citi / BARC / BofA / DB and you’ll probably get paid more and be better positioned. Citi esp interesting right now given the tailwinds and turmoil from Vis. I wouldn’t rule out JEF either. Lot of turnover and growth means a lot of opportunity and their toolkit is becoming better.
One way to position is to see when a top MD in your area makes a move and target that lateral. It’s unlikely they can poach their own team.
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