Alternative career ideas

Been told to consider other careers by my network if IBD is not working out. I've been researching a lot and am hitting a dead end on what alternative options there are for a UK graduate? Can someone give me a few ideas please?

Regional IBD opportunities -> require a specific EU language
S&T/AM/other 'market roles' -> i'm really not a 'markets' person though
PE/HF -> typically require experience as they don't want to train you. A few offer grad opportunities but typically are filled by people with prior top notch internships.
Consulting/Big4 -> applied/rejected
Tech companies -> require consulting/banking/other tech experience
F500 rotational programmes -> rare in the UK vs USA
Law/Actuarial/Real Estate -> no interest

How do I get experience - and what in - if I just can't get into a banking/consulting/Big4 grad programme?

Should I move country and try elsewhere? Doesn't seem like you can even have a career in the UK anymore as a British grad.

Comments (46)

May 28, 2014 - 8:59am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
CorpFinHopeful:

You could always go to a regular financial analyst role at an F500 (not necessarily through a rotational program), or alternatively you could try to get into PWM, ER, or some type of MO/BO role at a bank.

I'm not keen on a BO/MO/PWM role though (nothing wrong with them, but the actual role does not interest me). ER is quite tough to get into compared to IBD/S&T from what I've seen. The financial analyst roles at F500 companies typically require experience (including FP&A type roles).

May 28, 2014 - 9:12am
CorpFinHopeful, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Really? I know of more non-target/semi-target or non-finance background people getting into ER than IBD. Also, there should be some financial analyst positions at F500's that are entry level (no experience required) a lot of people I know from uni went straight to FA positions at GE, Unilever, P&G, etc. and they didn't have too much trouble getting in. Then again, I have very little knowledge of the UK job market, so maybe you're right. If you have some contacts abroad and can swing the cost then going to the US for a few months to network and search for jobs might be an option. Best of luck in any case!

May 28, 2014 - 9:15am
thebrofessor, what's your opinion? Comment below:

look at contract research organizations, they have budgets & proposals analyst programs, and at companies in the states the pay is competitive. companies stateside would be like Quintiles, PPD, and INC Research. you can move from there to pharma sales or up the corporate ladder within those companies. it's a great career so I've heard from my friends in the business.

May 28, 2014 - 9:32am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
thebrofessor:

look at contract research organizations, they have budgets & proposals analyst programs, and at companies in the states the pay is competitive. companies stateside would be like Quintiles, PPD, and INC Research. you can move from there to pharma sales or up the corporate ladder within those companies. it's a great career so I've heard from my friends in the business.

Someone very close to me is in pharma sales and told me to avoid it at all costs... (also I don't think I want to be 'selling' for a living - bit of a waste of my degree then to be honest). What was the point of going to a target just to end up in a BO job (budgets & proposals analyst)?

Best Response
May 28, 2014 - 9:43am
thebrofessor, what's your opinion? Comment below:

pharma sales is not contract research, and selling is beneath no one. get off your high horse and realize that sales is where you make big money. I agree that pharma sales is a dangerous business, but I'm just saying it's a possible exit opp.

budgets & proposals is not glamorous, but then again I don't think being a IB analyst is glamorous, you're essentially doing the same thing as a B&P analyst (spreadsheet jockey). one of my friends did that for a few years, now is in his mid 20's, and consistently meets with the execs of the biggest pharma companies in the world (think MRK/PFE/JNJ) and does deals with them, he doesn't have an image problem like some people in back office jobs.

if you do go to a target, leverage your school's career resources, try harder to break into IB, and change your attitude. your home country may have factors beyond your control, but don't let that slow you down. no one is going to hand you anything, ever, you have to work for it.

May 28, 2014 - 10:08am
CorpFinHopeful, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Hate to tell you this, but plenty of target school grads end up in sub-par jobs. Obviously you're the only one who has a grasp on your financial situation at this point, but you should be a bit more flexible in your attitude. After a certain amount of time spent unemployed, no job is beneath you.

Also, selling is going to be a major part of your job at least after a few years in most segments of financial services. There isn't any way around this, so you shouldn't shy away from sales-oriented jobs if you want to be in finance.

May 28, 2014 - 11:16am
SocratesIsMortal, what's your opinion? Comment below:
Someone very close to me is in pharma sales and told me to avoid it at all costs..

Big pharma sales has become a dead end as of recent... however, sales teams at mid-size biotechnology companies have been booming. One of my mentors heads up rare disease sales at a mid-size, commercial-stage biotech, and rakes in south of $1M. Reach out to companies like Regeneron, Shire, Amgen, for entry-level biotech sales roles, I know Amgen has a big Western EU footprint.

... (also I don't think I want to be 'selling' for a living - bit of a waste of my degree then to be honest)

My degree was in finance, however, half of my current job involves clinical strategy with medical devices; so, unless your degree involves a deep level of technical granularity (i.e. PhD level), your degree is really a piece of paper to get you through the front door.

Don't be so picky.

May 28, 2014 - 11:25pm
InvertedMooning, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Corporate and Commercial Banking could be a possibility. As for MO/BO not interesting you, that honestly doesn't make sense to me considering you want to join a F500 rotational program. A F500 rotational program will run you through different areas such as treasury, FP&A, budgeting, etc. and that all is relevant to MO/BO positions.

Valuation/TAS careers. Audit careers. Economic/Litigation consulting careers.

Jun 2, 2014 - 10:02am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
InvertedMooning:

Corporate and Commercial Banking could be a possibility. As for MO/BO not interesting you, that honestly doesn't make sense to me considering you want to join a F500 rotational program. A F500 rotational program will run you through different areas such as treasury, FP&A, budgeting, etc. and that all is relevant to MO/BO positions.

Valuation/TAS careers. Audit careers. Economic/Litigation consulting careers.

I didn't say I did or did not want to join a F500 program (but I will if I can) - I listed it as an option. There are very few F500 rotational program's in the UK generally though. Most hire experienced hires for analyst roles (some have long term internships which I am applying to). Audit is extremely dull according to the few people I know doing this career (some of who recently quit). You need an econ/law background for that type of consulting (they specifically ask for an econ/law degree from what I've seen).

May 31, 2014 - 11:33pm
couchy, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Most of the excuses you gave could apply to IB too.

You sound pessimistic and insecure. The people who usually get into IB are insanely confident and shrug off their weaknesses. So your excuses aren't characteristic of someone who'd get into IB

Another thing, once you get rid of "prestige", how much you enjoy something is based on good you're at it, how fair of a challenge it is, how much freedom you get, how much greater purpose you can imbue into it. So the excuses you gave are also bad because your enjoyment/happiness depends on context as much as the subject.

IMO, just get whatever comes by that you can see yourself doing very well at. And either have some balls and take some career risk, or admit your gonna play it safe and lower your expectations. Either choice depends on context (again) like your financial situation, health, family support etc.

Hopefully my post will help you get past the excuses.

May 31, 2014 - 11:45pm
DickFuld, what's your opinion? Comment below:
couchy:

Most of the excuses you gave could apply to IB too.

You sound pessimistic and insecure. The people who usually get into IB are insanely confident and shrug off their weaknesses. So your excuses aren't characteristic of someone who'd get into IB

Another thing, once you get rid of "prestige", how much you enjoy something is based on good you're at it, how fair of a challenge it is, how much freedom you get, how much greater purpose you can imbue into it. So the excuses you gave are also bad because your enjoyment/happiness depends on context as much as the subject.

IMO, just get whatever comes by that you can see yourself doing very well at. And either have some balls and take some career risk, or admit your gonna play it safe and lower your expectations. Either choice depends on context (again) like your financial situation, health, family support etc.

Hopefully my post will help you get past the excuses.

Spot on, 100%.
Jun 2, 2014 - 6:28am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
couchy:

Most of the excuses you gave could apply to IB too.

You sound pessimistic and insecure. The people who usually get into IB are insanely confident and shrug off their weaknesses. So your excuses aren't characteristic of someone who'd get into IB

Another thing, once you get rid of "prestige", how much you enjoy something is based on good you're at it, how fair of a challenge it is, how much freedom you get, how much greater purpose you can imbue into it. So the excuses you gave are also bad because your enjoyment/happiness depends on context as much as the subject.

IMO, just get whatever comes by that you can see yourself doing very well at. And either have some balls and take some career risk, or admit your gonna play it safe and lower your expectations. Either choice depends on context (again) like your financial situation, health, family support etc.

Hopefully my post will help you get past the excuses.

What excuses? They want people with experience is an excuse? Asking for other career options while still trying for what I want is an excuse? Where are you getting this from?

Negative and pessimistic - well Ive been one year out of work - what else am I supposed to feel? Everyone keeps saying you will be fine - which is clearly BS - as I'm not fine.

And I'm sorry but - no they are not - have spoken to people in IBD who are the most insecure people I've ever spoken to. No need to put everyone on a pedestal. That said several are very secure about themselves so it's a mixed bag (in several professions) it seems.

I agree hence I'm looking at other career options - which is the whole point of the post. Don't get where the expectations line came from when I'm also applying to the smallest of the smallest boutiques/firms for roles.

Jun 2, 2014 - 7:50am
couchy, what's your opinion? Comment below:

You have a reason why every job isn't perfect for you, or why you aren't qualified- that's an excuse. People get jobs they were "unqualified" for all the time. Non-targets get into BBs and PE out of undergrad is possible. Kids land full-time offers in careers . The excuses you've given are just correlations, not causation. They are just what happens on average, not always.

Being out of work for a year sucks but you shouldn't share that attitude with others. I've been situations just as bad, and getting pessimistic is just a spiral down. Letting excuses get in the way is a sign that you are already spiraling - it means you've just accepted your fate instead of trying to push against the odds.

You will be fine because you have a target degree and some decent work experience. You might not get a perfect job, but there's nothing wrong with that. The standard path touted by wso is actually not that standard. People lateral from other careers and take years to break in all time.

IB analysts are insecure in a different way as you mentioned, but plenty of non-target kids make it in because they have this stupid amount of confidence that is important for breaking into IB when times are tough. It's hard for everyone to get into IB, so every kid could come up with an excuse for why they won't get in - doesn't mean they let an excuse get in the way.

Nothing wrong with asking for help - but you've criticized almost every career option thrown at you. There isn't a perfect job for you out there. grass is always greener on the otherside, so in the end, it's what you make of your situation that matters.

Jun 1, 2014 - 2:47am
G.M.Trevelyan, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Guys, I should inform all of you that cujo.cabbie tried contacting me to tap into my network about 6 months ago.

He sent me about 20 messages, set up 3 or 4 times, never called once at that time. I stopped reading his messages after the first 5, and I never thought after his first appointment that he was that serious.

If you take a look at his posts you'll see it's mostly spam asking people their advice, their contacts, to help him get into a "prestige bank".

He commented that he really wanted to get into Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley, and that it was the only place he wanted to be.

Honestly, I would stop trying to help this guy. He wants something for nothing, never contributes to WSO, and when he does contribute it's the kind of feckless, irrelevant advice, that someone who's never been there, never walked the walk would say.

Just feeding this guy, he's a troll.

Jun 2, 2014 - 9:50am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
G.M.Trevelyan:

Guys, I should inform all of you that cujo.cabbie tried contacting me to tap into my network about 6 months ago.

He sent me about 20 messages, set up 3 or 4 times, never called once at that time. I stopped reading his messages after the first 5, and I never thought after his first appointment that he was that serious.

If you take a look at his posts you'll see it's mostly spam asking people their advice, their contacts, to help him get into a "prestige bank".

He commented that he really wanted to get into Goldman Sachs/Morgan Stanley, and that it was the only place he wanted to be.

Honestly, I would stop trying to help this guy. He wants something for nothing, never contributes to WSO, and when he does contribute it's the kind of feckless, irrelevant advice, that someone who's never been there, never walked the walk would say.

Just feeding this guy, he's a troll.

Since you have taken this public lets clarify some facts...

You offered to provide advice hence added me on Skype. When I asked when you were free to chat you didn't reply for a while (because you were in a new job). Then you have a reply saying 'call anytime I'm not an MD'... I can't do on Skype waiting for you to be online so I can call. Therefore I asked for a day/time you gave me a range of times but didn't come online. The second time you cancelled because you we're going for another appointment. I tried again to schedule something but by the time I got your Skype message the day/time had passed. I tried again to ask for a time/day your free but you messaged me saying you don't want to speak anymore as you don't have time and I left it there.

Also what advice do you want me to give? You are right I've never broken in - so what am I supposed to advice on when I'm struggling myself? It's best I stay quiet and don't post low quality comments then to post something for the sake of posting isn't it?

Not really sure how any of this makes me the troll. Quite the contrary actually.

Jun 1, 2014 - 3:41am
Loki777, what's your opinion? Comment below:

check out local technology associations in your area. This would be a great way for you to network and potentially get a job. I am part of an association for work, and there are usually at least 3 meetings per week with different topics and audiences, so plenty of new people to meet everytime. I have even had some ask if any of my friends (from my school) would be interested in roles. (if they cost, see if you could get a student discount)

Jun 2, 2014 - 6:30am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
Loki777:

check out local technology associations in your area. This would be a great way for you to network and potentially get a job. I am part of an association for work, and there are usually at least 3 meetings per week with different topics and audiences, so plenty of new people to meet everytime. I have even had some ask if any of my friends (from my school) would be interested in roles. (if they cost, see if you could get a student discount)

Great idea - will try this out. Thanks.

Jun 1, 2014 - 9:05am
[email protected], what's your opinion? Comment below:
cujo.cabbie:

Been told to consider other careers by my network if IBD is not working out. I've been researching a lot and am hitting a dead end on what alternative options there are for a UK graduate? Can someone give me a few ideas please?

Regional IBD opportunities -> require a specific EU language
S&T/AM/other 'market roles' -> i'm really not a 'markets' person though
PE/HF -> typically require experience as they don't want to train you. A few offer grad opportunities but typically are filled by people with prior top notch internships.
Consulting/Big4 -> applied/rejected
Tech companies -> require consulting/banking/other tech experience
F500 rotational programmes -> rare in the UK vs USA
Law/Actuarial/Real Estate -> no interest

How do I get experience - and what in - if I just can't get into a banking/consulting/Big4 grad programme?

Should I move country and try elsewhere? Doesn't seem like you can even have a career in the UK anymore as a British grad.

Did you do an internship in anything after Y2?

regional IBD is almost non-existent in England. Those who apply are actually quite strong applicants who prefer the geographical location.

Jun 2, 2014 - 6:46am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
timpson:
cujo.cabbie:

Been told to consider other careers by my network if IBD is not working out. I've been researching a lot and am hitting a dead end on what alternative options there are for a UK graduate? Can someone give me a few ideas please?

Regional IBD opportunities -> require a specific EU language
S&T/AM/other 'market roles' -> i'm really not a 'markets' person though
PE/HF -> typically require experience as they don't want to train you. A few offer grad opportunities but typically are filled by people with prior top notch internships.
Consulting/Big4 -> applied/rejected
Tech companies -> require consulting/banking/other tech experience
F500 rotational programmes -> rare in the UK vs USA
Law/Actuarial/Real Estate -> no interest

How do I get experience - and what in - if I just can't get into a banking/consulting/Big4 grad programme?

Should I move country and try elsewhere? Doesn't seem like you can even have a career in the UK anymore as a British grad.

Did you do an internship in anything after Y2?

regional IBD is almost non-existent in England. Those who apply are actually quite strong applicants who prefer the geographical location.

Yes I did at a top notch F500 company. They were not hiring but said they would keep my CV on file and contact me if anything crops up. Most of their roles require 2+ years experience and the grad roles are very technical/require a specific skillset which I didn't gain from my degree. If they were hiring I would have taken the job and I wouldn't be in the situation.

Regarding the second line - are you saying people with international experience are at a disadvantage? Quite the contrary has been said on WSO previously hence I'm curious.

Jun 2, 2014 - 8:30am
[email protected], what's your opinion? Comment below:
cujo.cabbie:
timpson:
cujo.cabbie:

Been told to consider other careers by my network if IBD is not working out. I've been researching a lot and am hitting a dead end on what alternative options there are for a UK graduate? Can someone give me a few ideas please?

Regional IBD opportunities -> require a specific EU language
S&T/AM/other 'market roles' -> i'm really not a 'markets' person though
PE/HF -> typically require experience as they don't want to train you. A few offer grad opportunities but typically are filled by people with prior top notch internships.
Consulting/Big4 -> applied/rejected
Tech companies -> require consulting/banking/other tech experience
F500 rotational programmes -> rare in the UK vs USA
Law/Actuarial/Real Estate -> no interest

How do I get experience - and what in - if I just can't get into a banking/consulting/Big4 grad programme?

Should I move country and try elsewhere? Doesn't seem like you can even have a career in the UK anymore as a British grad.

Did you do an internship in anything after Y2?

regional IBD is almost non-existent in England. Those who apply are actually quite strong applicants who prefer the geographical location.

Yes I did at a top notch F500 company. They were not hiring but said they would keep my CV on file and contact me if anything crops up. Most of their roles require 2+ years experience and the grad roles are very technical/require a specific skillset which I didn't gain from my degree. If they were hiring I would have taken the job and I wouldn't be in the situation.

Regarding the second line - are you saying people with international experience are at a disadvantage? Quite the contrary has been said on WSO previously hence I'm curious.

By regional, I was talking about areas in the UK outside London. Also, there must be some sort of flaw in your application or interviewing techniques. As stated before, some of your posts come off as you are entitled to a good job because you went to a target. That's not the case at all.

Jun 1, 2014 - 8:35pm
deBerg, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Anyone got any insight into insurance/reinsurance? I've spoken briefly to various people who seem to be earning pretty good money and work great hours, not sure if they're the exception however...

Jun 2, 2014 - 9:01am
above_and_beyond, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Is it just me, or is cujo.cabbie = charles-perry = hopesanddreams = techtoIBD ?

Btw, I just looked up three random UK companies (namely Shell, Glaxo, and Rolls-Royce) and all have graduate schemes and I bet plenty of other UK firms do as well, so I don't know what you mean with "UK companies don't have these kind of programs".

Jun 2, 2014 - 10:02am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
above_and_beyond:
Btw, I just looked up three random UK companies (namely Shell, Glaxo, and Rolls-Royce) and all have graduate schemes and I bet plenty of other UK firms do as well, so I don't know what you mean with "UK companies don't have these kind of programs".

I should have been more clear. These rotational programmes do not offer rotations in departments like corporate strategy, business ops, corp finance etc. They are much more 'generic'.

Jun 2, 2014 - 12:12pm
G.M.Trevelyan, what's your opinion? Comment below:
above_and_beyond:

Is it just me, or is cujo.cabbie = charles-perry = hopesanddreams = techtoIBD ?

Btw, I just looked up three random UK companies (namely Shell, Glaxo, and Rolls-Royce) and all have graduate schemes and I bet plenty of other UK firms do as well, so I don't know what you mean with "UK companies don't have these kind of programs".

It's the same guy. He writes the same way too. Additionally, whenever people throw monkey shit at him he has other accounts to deliver himself bananas. Without the other accounts the monkeyshit count against him would be around -3.

Anyway, this guy is a narcissistic troll. The threads are always about his issue and he should go voice them somewhere else -- or to himself.

Jun 2, 2014 - 7:10pm
CreditAnalyst85, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Some people can't be helped. He's clueless, entitled-sounding, and arrogant. He's not even aware of it and then argues in disbelief.

Don't waste your time guys.

Jun 3, 2014 - 6:43am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
CreditAnalyst85:

Some people can't be helped. Don't waste your time guys.

If you believe this then why spend your time reading through this thread and/or posting? People on WSO have a mind of their own and don't need to be told when to post/when not to.

Anyway can we stop derailing this thread and stick to the subject - what alternative career options are out there. I'm sure the ideas will help many students who are looking at other options.

Jun 3, 2014 - 8:22am
DickFuld, what's your opinion? Comment below:
cujo.cabbie:
what alternative career options are out there.
Here are a few off the top of my head:

Computer programmer School Teacher Bus driver Lobbyist Farmer Ski instructor Supply chain analyst Marketing associate Assistant brand manager Junior portfolio manager Commodities trader Stock broker trainee Clerk Security guard Air traffic controller Astronaut/Cosmonaut Petroleum engineer Social worker Economist Blogger Movie critic Oboe player Zookeeper T-Shirt manufacturer Cashier Stay at home Dad Nurse practitioner Patent troll Cold caller Automobile sales Plumber Taxi driver Shoe shine guy Food delivery Massage therapist Sandwich artist Receptionist Flight attendant Baker Beer distributor Firefighter Compliance analyst Financial advisor Credit research Credit ratings analyst Food inspector Chemist eBay salesperson Horse trainer Bookie Food critic Philosopher Interpretive bongo drummer Travel guide Plastic surgery consultantFinancial analystTruck driver Pilot Efficiency consultant Enterprise risk manager Bank teller Butcher Shoe repair Electrician Police officer Mutual fund wholesaler Advertising sales Railway safety advisor Bouncer Doorman Bellhop Professional gamer Dishwasher Bartender Loan officer Treasury analyst Fund of fund research Mayor Military infantry Barista Bike messenger Tailor Journalist Barber Cook Operations analyst

Jun 3, 2014 - 11:36am
cujo.cabbie, what's your opinion? Comment below:
thebrofessor:

have you ever done a Myers Briggs test? that could help...

Nice suggestion - thank you.

Jun 3, 2014 - 11:41am
thebrofessor, what's your opinion? Comment below:

just make sure you have it evaluated by someone who knows their stuff. my MBTI (myers briggs type inventory) had a list of famous people with every combination (relevant to me, you have your dominant and then some other similar ones) as well as common careers for people with that combination. for example, John Rockefeller was ESTJ, which is common among tycoons, sales people, CEOs/founders, etc., and they say good jobs for those people are sales related, interactive, challenging, etc.

different careers lend themselves to different skill sets, and while that test isn't a silver bullet, it might open your mind to things you've never thought about before.

Jun 3, 2014 - 11:53am
ArcherVice, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I realize this is off topic but my backup plan was to open a Tiki Bar in Cancun.

Go into Tech, London is one of the hubs. The higher ups in tech make as much or more than the higher ups on Wall street, despite popular opinion to the contrary.

I know someone in a sales role at Oracle and another at Amazon. Guy at Oracle makes 250-300kish, Amazon makes around 150k but is much younger than the guy at Oracle. In short, the money is there and its an awesome industry to be part of. Get it done hombre.

  • 2
Jun 15, 2014 - 1:00am
Emgi, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Jun 17, 2014 - 11:23am
WickedJumpShot, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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