I think I’m going to give up
Target school, 4 internships in PE and Asset Management, and decent grades, and haven’t been able to land anything FT. Just about to finish my summer courses now, and am about to finish undergrad without a job. I’ve made it close every-time to a final round to the managing director, but hear the same “we moved onto another candidate” theme. I think I’m just not meant for this. Maybe I’m not what they want. I hate giving up, but I just don’t know if I’m gonna be able to get through in this industry. I have what they want on paper but it’s not enough. I network, get referrals, make it to a final round but it’s never enough.
I remember my last interview at an asset management fund, I was speaking to the founder and partner, connected very well, left thinking finally I got it, only to see some dickhead from my school with ZERO experience get the job. Fucking crushed there. I thought to myself how the fuck does this happen.
Sorry man, that's a tough swing. Keep your head up.
You ever get feedback from these interviews? That might help.
I’ve paid for finance interview prep, got mock interviewed, done everything I can. It’s gotten me only to the final round but they always choose someone better over me. I just want a fucking job. It’d be easier to give up if I got no interviews but I’m so close every time!
You shouldn't think of them as "better". Maybe they were a better fit, but thinking you are inferior somehow is not fair to you. That shit is demoralizing and right now you need to persevere. You got into a target, banked 4 internships and have good grades, you should be proud of that.
You ever reach out to your interviewers and ask for feedback? It'll help you understand where you fell short from their perspective. Plus it shows maturity and helps keep dialogues going. Have had friends tank interviews, reconnect with interviewers and bank other roles in the firm. It just leaves a positive impression.
Plenty of FT opportunities still out there. Many FT applications don't open until late summer or early fall. Remember it only takes 1 firm
You have relevant experience and right education background, which make you better positioned than many folks who are trying to break into the industry. Are you specifically targeting the buy side and BBs? If so, I would recommend diversifying your job search and move towards MM shops.
Before you give up, always remember you only need to succeed once to succeed. Unlike Eminem who only needed to fuck up once to fuck up.
If you are truly passionate, do a similar stint / go to LMM and then come back with more experience. I graduated into market crash and got my offer rescinded... Did one year LMM and jumped to a much bigger shop later
what did Eminem do?
You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow - Lose Yourself
I've been exactly where you are, except that when I finished undergrad I had no internships and little to no relevant experience. It definitely was depressing and I felt like I wasn't made for finance at all.I'm not sure why you haven't landed a job yet. My best guest is that you're over-qualified (yes, for some strange reason, some ppl get rejected because of that). Typically 1-3 internships is what undergrads seek.After I finally found a job I realized a lot of things. The most important one though is that it's best that you don't rush it and to make sure you don't get a FT you think you're gonna love, but at the end it's something you wish you never signed up for.Many ppl who graduate with a FT secured at a well-known and prestigious company find themselves wanting to leave before or right after their first year because of how brutal and inhuman it is. You'd think these people have their lives set up right after college. Unfortunately, it is only the beginning for them.Keep applying because there is a firm out there that's willing to hire you with great perks and a good wlb, you just gotta find it. For anyone who doesn't hire you, it's their loss. Wish you the best in your job search!
are you graduating this summer or are you about to go into your senior year this fall? If the latter, I wouldn't be discouraged at all as opportunities will come through throughout senior year. If you're graduating soon, I would broaden my search to consulting, big4 (transaction advisory), or those finance rotational programs at a F500. At least you'll have a job and can try to lateral to IB afterwards. If you gain modeling experience at said job, the lateral process will be pretty straightforward as bodies are always needed to fill leaving analysts. Even if your first job has no relevant experience (i.e. marketing or FP&A), you still leave the door open for MBA and can recruit in finance after that.
You are clearly a bot that can’t talk to people if you have this much experience. Work on being less autistic
This is coming from a non target, no network or connections that got IB and s&t offers. You just have people problems clearly
I just find it hard not to be robotic. I worry about saying something that may come off too chill like idk.
I feel like that’s it tbh
Bro stop preparing so much, obviously prepare but make your interview a conversation and make them laugh, that’s why I’ve gotten offers. Be casual but formal. Show that you will work harder than anyone else. I’ll dm you and we can hop on a call and I’ll give u tips
Had a buddy that was in the same shoes as you. He was so well prepared it was too much, and he never got the offer despite making it to every superday. Finally started to be himself and he converted the next one no problem. Just don’t overthink it, you probably have all the knowledge, just be yourself and don’t come over as a finance robot. You got this, don’t give up!
I think that’s it tbh. I have been acting a little robotic tbh. I’m just gonna be my laid back self and just see where it goes. I think I’m just trying too hard to show them I know my shit versus sorta letting them figure it out themselves, know what I mean? That could possibly be the reason for the lack of the rapport.
I think that’s it tbh. I have been acting a little robotic tbh. I’m just gonna be my laid back self and just see where it goes. I think I’m just trying too hard to show them I know my shit versus sorta letting them figure it out themselves, know what I mean? That could possibly be the reason for the lack of the rapport.
I think that’s why I’ll do. I’ll relax a bit more and try to be a bit more casual. I think what I’m trying to do is try too hard to show them I know the stuff which is destroying opportunities for rapport and casual convos. I’ve reflected a lot and realized it.
Look into corp fin. IB / buyside isn't the be all end all
maybe just continue FT at places you interned at. PE and AM is where people go after IB and you already landed jobs there before IB and are crushing about not being able to do IB.
is it not possible to get a FT offer after internship?
Hoping this could be of help to you or someone in this thread.
I come from a good school and majored in finance, but after undergrad I took an untraditional route for a few years (great opp, just not finance). When I decided to leave that career for finance, I had no idea how incredibly hard the move was going to be. I knew I needed to build up my technical skills, so I did WSO's entire premium modeling course and learned all of the main interview questions forward and backwards. Without a day on the job I learned how to build every model from scratch and how to answer any accounting/corp fin problem you could throw at me, because I knew I'd have to compete with people who had years in the seat. I then networked my a** of. I have this all logged in an excel spreadsheet somewhere, but over the course of my first 5-6 months I sent around 500 emails and made over 300 networking calls. I got no's from just about every single one--I was crushed. However, after over a year, I finally made the 1 connect that would land me in my current seat.
While our stories are very different and I recognize that, I want you to recognize that these jobs are very hard to get and you absolutely, 100% can get them if you work hard enough and go about it the right way. Do not give up.
Now, on how to go about it the right way:
Ironically, I've now had to give dozens of interviews on behalf of several teams on my floor. I think they see my ridiculous amount of time spent recruiting as good experience there. While I'm interviewing, there is a very simple set of questions I'm looking for you to answer:
1. Can they do the job well? - Are you smart, do you know how to model, can you answer technical questions, can you handle the hours, etc.
2. Does this job make sense for them? - I want to know a) If you really researched the job and know its ins and outs, b) if you know yourself as a person and the qualities you possess align with those of someone who'd be successful in the seat, and c) you want THIS team. You should know the coverage. Have opinions on the space. Be familiar with anything that is front page Google-worthy on the topic. Have an air-tight story as to why you want to be in this industry specifically.
3. Would I enjoy working with this person? - Enjoy yourself during the interviews. Smile and laugh. Start and end each interview with a personal/non-work related conversation. Ask the interviewer about themselves and find a way to connect over a similarity. I've lost multiple recruits on this phase.
I don't care how impressive your competition is. If you can answer these 3 questions better than the next person, you'll win the seat. If you think you have 1 and 2 down, work on 3. If you're failing at 3, it doesn't mean you're not an enjoyable person to be around necessarily, but more likely you don't know how to express yourself in an interview. Interviewing is an art. I'd suggest seeking out your most socially adept friend. Have them to the qualitative person of the interview and get their honest feedback on how you come off. I'd even recommend reading How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Happy to PM if you have any other questions!
Hi man. I’m going to shoot you a pm. I found this incredibly helpful. Looking back I think I’m just failing interviews and coming off too hard to the point where I’m not focusing on building enough rapport with the interviewers. I feel like I try too hard to show that I know my stuff versus building a rapport which is just as important. I’m going to take sometime to re evaluate my approach and make sure that I do things differently. Like someone else said here, they had a friend that for whatever reason couldn’t get offers until they started being themselves and letting them self go which resulted in an offer. I need to do that.
I also want to say I’m clearly good enough on paper to make it to final rounds. It’s not an easy accomplishment and tbh I think I should give myself more credit. I just need to just keep my head up like you said and change my approach. I’m really glad I have such nice people here in this thread who are so optimistic when I was on the brink of giving up. It’s been tough man. It’s been my dream to get into this industry. I went to the target school, banked 4 internships and I’ve just been snuggling to convert. I’m not going to give up though. I’m going to change my approach and do things differently!
Wondering what do you mean by "decent grades"? Maybe what is decent to you is not enough for recruiters, especially in such a competitive environment.
But assuming your grades are good, if you have 4 internships under your belt, that makes you a very good candidate and gives you an edge over most grads, so I wouldn't give up yet. As someone mentioned above, there are some firms who still haven't opened their FT recruitment yet, you could also widen your range options, there is plenty of options beyond PE, BB and EB, you can apply to Big 4, and MM shops, get experience and then lateral to your target companies.
Alternatively, you can maybe do a Masters in Finance program, that will upgrade your Resume and give you another year to apply again.
Update: He didn't give up and now works for a 3 person junkyard business brokerage. Man shoulda quit!!!
This you? Man I’m living rent free in your head bro. Rent free. You’re wild.
Associate 1 in IB - ECM
Oct 2022
I've worked at a few shit boutiques. The hours are great, like under 60 a week, but comp stagnates once you get past the Associate level. Up to the Associate level it's great though. Analysts are cheap enough that your Analyst comp wont be THAT much worse than the BBs at a boutique. I was an Analyst II and made $90K a year in salary and got a $30K bonus. Allegedly the bonus could have been up to 100% but we had a shit year. For the 55 hours a week I was working, this was fine with me.
Even at the Associate level, comp wasn't insultingly bad. $115K and up to 100% bonus. The issue was that it was clear there was ZERO progression past the Junior Associate level. We only ever had one VP (most boutiques run really lean with a few MDs who work on commission and then a few analysts/associates for support), and he made like $225K-$275K/year. Barely higher than the Associate I was working with gets paid. Moreover, you aren't going to build any network or connections and trying to progress to a senior-level, relationship banker coming from that background would have been MEGA difficult.
I also think after you get too senior to lateral to a better bank as an Associate you become less and less attractive for lateral opps in general. No one minds hiring an Analyst/Associate from a boutique as long as your excel/powerpoint skillset is on point. But nobody wants to hire a senior banker or even VP that's coming from a boutique for the aforementioned reasons (no network, connections, etc.) You also may or may not get adequate training & learning opportunities. I had a great Associate, thank god, because my MDs were fucking morons. Literally senile, glorified business brokers who worked on commission and had sinfully low success rates on their M&A deals.
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