Here's what's up:
I'm from a state school (think Rutgers, Amherst, etc...) with a 3.8 High School GPA, 1300 SAT.......2.02 college GPA and a lot of very good reasons why. This finance thing wasn't even on my radar until the 2008 crash (I was thinking military OCS or keep my college job as bartender) and I still made it into a boutique back office and I'm leveraging the hell out of that towards BO / MO in BB.....sooooooo here's my question:
Is IBD ever happening for me, or is the low college performance just too big a recruiting block to get over....and if so, what then? what MBA route is viable/worthwhile?
I know other people have done this, but what are THE MECHANICS of digging out of this hole? (and yeah, I'm offering cash compensation and loyalty to those who point me in the right direction)
What people will probably tell you:
a) No. Longest road ahead of you. b) Network the hell with all you've got for all you're worth. c) If you already made it into a boutique, albeit BO, you've still got a shot in that you're in the industry. d) Consider an MFE perhaps, simply to get a brand name that overrides your 2.0 and demonstrates a more recent turnaround. A good MBA would be exceptionally hard to get into with your undergrad performance.
I'd simply say network and best of luck to you.
there are no good reasons for a 2.02 and please don't try to defend yourself by listing them on an online forum, because that would just be too pathetic
No judgement here, just wondering: Can you even graduate with a 2.02? I mean, on a 10-point scale, that would translate to a 5.05, whereas 5.5 is usually regarded as a passing grade.
This question gets asked so often, so I'm going to respond and hopefully this will be searched and helpful to others in the future. If others disagree with any of these points or want to add on, please do. Also, what was your major? 2.02 in EECS > 2.02 Poli Sci, though a 2.02 is still bad.
1) Network like crazy, talk to anyone you can, take them to lunch, meet for coffee, etc. You're not going to move to FO but still, have people in your firm like you. Put in your time, do a great job, and focus on getting into B-school cause thats' going to be your best bet into a BB FO. 2) Kill your GMAT... absolutely kill it, 700+. Sign up for Manhattan GMAT or Veritas + a private tutor if you have to. Get at least a 700.
3) Take some extension classes online from a REPUTABLE university... calculus, statistics, finance, accounting. Ace them -- I repeat, ACE them. Also whatever else you really did poorly on in college. The quant courses are probably your best bet though to impress adcomms. 4) Invest in an admissions consultant to help you get your application tight. You will not get into H/S/W, or most likely any top 10. But, if you can be a very compelling candidate minus your GPA, there's a chance for you yet... although bleak. Consider applying to a school's PT program if there's no chance you'll get into their FT program AND the PT program has a trackrecord of sending ppl to IB. 5) Do something, anything, to show leadership in work. Volunteer for special projects, etc. Get involved in industry groups or volunteer for a politician, community org, etc. Something to differntiate you from all the other folks applying who have better grades than you (and unfortunately, more typical pre-b-school work experience.) 6) Since you were thinking ab going to OCTS, consider joining the Reserve and get an interesting MOS (i.e., Navy Intelligence Officer, etc.) B-schools LOOOOOOOVE military guys. 7) Apply to b-school and go to the best school you possibly can. Kill your 1st quarter/semester classes -- generally accounting, finance, econ and OB. Go to every corp presentation (NOT JUST BB!!!!), every DOJ, ask intelligent questions, set up informationals, leverage preexisting relationships, do mock interviews, and rock them. 8) Be happy for any offer you get and understand you can be successful even if you work at a boutique or MM firm.
A Posse Ad Esse + qwertyzap - THANK YOU! I just got more useful info from you than all career services offices put together ever.
I hate saying this over and over but please don't join the military to get into a better BSchool...for the love of God
No! Military was just one plan amongst many until life came along and then here I am in NYC. But I do think about joining EVERY DAY, especially when some limp dick tool says 'happy hump day' (what the FUCK are the mondays???) ...I'm just the first to NOT do it in my family.
Honestly, even though I'm pretty much on the bottom of the totem pole, my quality of life is WAAAAAAAYYYY better than I'd ever dreamed two or three years ago. This work/life balance thing is foreign to me though, so I keep my other job as a bartender and that's why I'm looking for a more intense work environment here in the city.
Seriously, it's a trip walking down Wall and being 3 feet from Jim Cramer, all this history, and seeing all the $$$$ flying around.
Who in their right mind would do military after working on Wall Street??? I'm the first in my family to NOT do the military and the first to work in the city....and I don't come from money, so my family would KILL ME if I left here to go 'build democracy' (or watever the hell it is we're doing over there at this point). Marine Corps mentality was huge in my upbringing, but honestly, serving at this time of life doesn't hold any fascination with me, and my family is going to need money (especially my mom). My perception is that it takes just as big a d*** to survive and dominate here as it does in the military, just much more mental and much less physical (and no dodging bullets). But what do I know, I'm the new guy. Either way, the two years I've spent here have opened the realistic possiblity of getting finance corps, plus my bartending background helps with intelligence corps (apparently, recruiters think pouring drinks in clubs and seedy dives gives me privy to listen in on a lot of backdoor dealing at the local level - and they might be right). Infantry is a given, so why not go for the fun stuff?
As for reserve: how on earth does one balance that with working front office? The hours are insane to begin with....does having to be away for a three day weekend once a month and potentially for 6 - 18 months at a strech make it impossible to do banking AND be in the reserve? If I did go in, it would have to be for the 4 years and then out.
Happypants, I've read some of your posts and you seem to have a service background from what I can gather: what's your take on all this? If you already have a thread, let me know and I'll look through your posts.....
As to the first point, (regardless of what people say or what federal law states) having the Guard/Reserve on your resume has a negative effect. Trust me. As for the other point, if you have questions, feel free to PM me. There are other guys here with experience beyond my own so seek them out as well.
Why would you do that??
Military voluntarily? there are a LOT of good reasons but I'm kind of getting sidetracked. The reason I'm on this website is to figure out how to fix my mistakes and get back ahead of the grade curve (where I spent most of my life prior to college)
If you're curious though, google military officer or just meet some of those guys and chat with them
OP, even if you can't get into finance, there are still other goods jobs out there for people who didn't do well in school (entrepreneurship, startups, sales, etc). Not saying you can't do finance, just that it's not the end of the world if you can't.
econ, you are very right, I've turned down several interesting things, but why not try? And if I fall short of BSD, I'll still be better off than I was had I not tried
I'm a bit lost here ... what does OP stand for? aa and since we are at it, what is OB (i infer it must be some kind of a B School course or something)?
OP = Original poster OB = Organisational Behavior
thanks qwertyztap!
What's wrong with joining the military after wall street?
In fact, doing that would only strengthen your future employability as it would show both your capabilities in finance as well as your diverse background. Also, 4 years military life would make 18-hour i-banking workload look like kindergarten, especially if you go through ranger training, living in a swamp in northern Florida in the middle of nowhere, and OCS training. Also, having your Basic Combat Training sergeant yell at you every 5 seconds and making you do 100 push ups whenever he feels like it would make working with your future managing director and prospective clients a lot easier, no matter how demanding they can be.
I've been in one of the top SA programs on the street (think GS, JPM) and eventually got offers last year for full time (corporate finance). At first, I took up the offer but later decided to join the army and go to Officer Candidate School instead because it's either now or never. My advice is that before you ship off for basic training, take your GMATs and fill out some top MBA applications (for deferred entry) so that they can be smooth transitions for you when you want to return to the street 4 years later.
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