Quick Background: Non-target, non-finance major (major is in the b-school though), 3.7 GPA, D1 tennis athlete
Dilemma: Got into the FT recruiting late and I am currently trying to network my way into a few middle market investment banks and see if they have any spots open. Also considering the MS in Finance program at Washington University in Saint Louis and some other programs. Spoke to a lot of people about my options. About 60% say to continue networking and focus on prepping for the GMAT to take it in 2 months to meet the Feb 15 deadline for WashU (aka don't worry about prepping for technicals, focus on GMAT). 40% say focus on networking but don't pursue a MS in Finance program, instead just try to find relevant work experience (if not in IB then some other finance role).
What do I do? Any advice? I personally think I should focus on the GMAT and get into the WashU program if I can. I already visited the school and talked to people there including the Assistant Dean and I love the place and program. I don't want to really just get *any* role for the sake of experience. I have developed a decent sized network and I feel as though I can leverage that more after the MS in Finance program. Plus, this time I would be ahead of the game and try to join in on the FT recruiting from the start. Obviously, after 3-5 years of experience, I will go back to get my MBA.
Let me hear other opinions though. Be honest please. I want unfiltered opinions. Thanks
Not sure if I can tell you what to do, but this is what I am doing... similar situation (had 1.5 years of study abroad that kept me away from a finance internship/ got me into FT recruiting late / didn't know I wanted banking 2 years ago)
I am delaying graduation by a single semester. This will allow me to -Do a part-time internship this spring in a related area -Do a summer internship (fingers crossed) in banking -Either get a return offer or hit the ground running for FT recruiting in the Fall. -Pick up honors in my second major
I had a lot of people suggest this. However, the idea of getting a MS in Finance does sound interesting. That would wipe out my spring and summer internship though, as most places won't take someone for summer internships if they have graduated.
So, curious on other's thoughts as well.
Best of luck!
Focus on GMAT and get the Masters. If a really good job comes your way then reconsider but at the moment (if you don't HAVE to work right away) if it were me I would focus on the MS, especially since you're targeting a great school.
@pacman007 That's what I'm thinking too! Thanks man! I appreciate it
Will money be an issue? Could you delay graduation?
Because you're coming from a non-target I feel as though your network in Finance might not be that strong. You're also a prime candidate for a top MSF program being from a non finance background with good grades and hopefully an over 700 GMAT.
My only advice would be to look at other MSF programs besides Wash U. I was potentially looking at MSF programs and I identified Duke and UVA as having the best programs with the strongest networks in both finance and consulting. Wash U is still a great program, but its seems to place more regionally than the bigger names.
@mrharveyspecter First off, is the name a reference to the character in Suits? If yes, then kudos to you sir. Secondly, my network in Finance isn't too strong in the NY area but relatively strong for MM banks in the Midwestern region. I recently spoke to the MD at a top 4 BB so hopefully I expand my network in NY as well. I'll definitely look into those other programs you mentioned. I am starting my prep work for the GMAT in a week. Thanks for the advice mate and the money would not matter. If I do choose to continue my education, I would want it to be the Masters program. Are the Duke and UVA programs more quant based btw?
Yup absolutely a reference to suits. I was going to try and post in character, but thats too much work. Nope the Duke and UVA are more MBA lite type programs. Duke is actually management based, so its less finance intensive and more a general overview of business related topics. UVA has specific finance and marketing/consulting tracks and has a more pure finance curriculum. Vanderbilt is another good program, but also places slightly more regionally.
Out of all the MSF programs I looked at Duke and UVA stood out the most, mainly because of the quality of the name of the school, deep alumni network, and great OCR. Both those schools get all the big names to come to campus and I'm sure you could find someone to network with at almost any bank in the world. They are also slightly bigger programs ~100, which I liked vs the 30 person classes at some of the other schools. Good luck with your search.
And this is based on what exactly? So many broad/sweeping statements about MSF's that have absolutely no grounding in reality. WUSTL's MSF outperforms both of those programs in every objective metric, and this is especially true for banking. People seem to be relating the strength of a school's MSF to the strength of its MBA program. There's really little relation between the two and this is especially true for Duke's MMS and UVA's MIC (not part of Darden). Also, the OP wouldn't qualify for UVA's MIC since you have a business degree and experience.
OP, I'm currently attending Wash U's MSF program and I'd be happy to answer any of your questions. I can tell you that this years MSF program is on track to have its strongest year in terms of IB placement and that we're a target for consulting (approximately 20% already placed into MM IB).
Calm down there chief, someone take a shit in your cheerios this morning? WUSTL has a great program, I just said it places more regionally than other schools, which is 100% true. Duke and UVA have a much more expansive network on Wall Street than WUSTL.
What about the biggest objective metric... job placement. Congrats WUSTL places a few kids to MM banks a year. Kids from Duke MMS and UVA go to GS, MS, JPM, and MBB. The best thing is, if you decide you want to work for a specific company while at a Duke or UVA chances are there are a number of alums who can help you out.
I'm sure WUSTL is having a great year for placement, but can you tell me how many kids place into front office positions at Bulge Brackets in NY? How about MBB? Last time I checked it was none. The OP should know that if he chooses WUSTL that it essentially decides for him that he will be in the midwest somewhere. I looked at WUSTL, but my decision was that if I was going to pay 50k for another year of school that I was going to go for the top.
tl:dr No need to get butthurt Esuric WUSTL is a fine school if you know you want MM IBD in the midwest. If you want to dream a little bigger, you need a better network, which is offered by schools like Duke and UVA.
@Esuric thanks for the response man. I appreciate it. That's awesome about the IB placement. When you mean IB placement, which firms are you talking about? Any NYC ones?
i would say MS, an extra year will help polish you up. Maybe set you up for things after IB, which most undergrads who go straight aren't prepared for. At the same time if you short on money then getting the job ASAP is better. Depends if you want to take the hit on some more tuition
@zeroblued I definitely agree with you. I'm currently on the hunt for a summer internship before the MS program. And I don't mind taking the money hit for a year or so if it lands me a job!
what type of jobs are you realistically looking at through your current network? what type of network does st louis have in the region/field you want to be in?
@td12 I am looking for an IB analyst position at a MM firm. I spoke to someone at Raymond James and someone who used to be at RW Baird and they both said I was bright enough to pick up the technical skills on the job so it wouldn't be an issue. I am hoping that is the case. Saint Louis does not have a great network but WashU does recruit pretty well in the Midwest region and as I mentioned to one of the users above, Im growing my network as much as I can to expand into NY as well. What do you think mate?
when does recruiting close for those firms? are those individuals saying that as a general observation or do they have positions open that youre applying to? if youre getting that type of positive feedback from current bankers at firms you are applying to then i would do everything in my power to ace those interviews. forget school if you can get the job you want w/o it IMO
oh gotcha. tough call bro. i have no idea about how often people renege on their offers, so i don't want to give you bad info.
sounds like you have your ducks in a row so i'm sure it'll work out. good luck!
@td12 Haha tell me about it. It's tough just because I need to know how to focus my time. With tennis, individual research and school, it's tough enough to make time for technicals or GMAT prep, let alone both.
Haha thanks mate. We'll see how it goes! I'm enjoying the challenge
1) I think your stats are good. Being an an athlete helps also. The fact that you aren't a finance major won't really hurt.
2) The GMAT is going to be key. Focus on that if your intentions are going into banking.
As far as your situation goes, I just don't know. You have good stats and are an athlete. If you can't land a job right now I have to wonder what is the hindrance. I say this because it isn't your grades and the fact that you played a sport only helps you. Is it a lack of networking or interview prep (are you getting interviews?). Did you decide later you wanted to work in finance late in the game?
I ask this because I want to make sure whatever held you up during UG isn't going to hold you up during the masters.
Now for schools. WUSTL is a great program and sounds like you are really into it. You are obviously going to want to pick a couple other programs in case you don't get in. I'd say off the bat you have a decent shot unless you tank the GMAT. I would recommend UVA, but I don't believe you are eligible:
"students who have an undergraduate major in business or equivalent coursework are not eligible to apply."
Check out some other schools so at least you have a fall back option.
I personally would consider UVA > WUSTL. The Masters in Commerce is closely related to an MSF and the placements are some of the best I have ever seen. WUSTL is a great program, but there placements are on par with most other programs. Very good.
@TNA thanks for your response mate! The problem here is twofold:
I have had interviews at Edward Jones, NISA Investments and such but no real IB firms. I do well on the behavioral parts of these interviews since I have perfected my story and it's a truthful one so it makes it easier to retell and adapt to situations. I struggle a little with technicals due to lack of real experience and a finance degree, but that's no excuse. I'm working hard at it to find some time where I can study apart from tennis, school and research commitments.
And while I agree Duke MMS is a good program with good placements, many of the MMS students are Duke UG's and top school UG's who didn't study business. Talking about their placements as if everyone who attends the program will have similar results isn't exactly correct.
I think Duke is absolutely perfect for someone with a liberal arts background. I know business students go into the program, but just saying I think the liberal arts background is the best.
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