2020 Election - Trump vs. Biden
Personally expected Biden to end up being the Dem nominee. What are everyone’s thoughts of Biden up against Trump?
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in the words of a wise man, “gold jacket, green jacket, who gives a shit?”
I think Trump will win. And I’ve been openly and vehemently against Trump. I stand by my decision. I don’t think Biden is a good candidate. I would refrain from saying better than Trump. I believe he’s less worse on things that matter to me.
My fear is Trump’s hateful rhetoric and how it empowers people. You can choose to blame the people and not Trump, which is somewhat fair. But remember, “There are no adults.” Everyone is childlike. I’ve just seen a lot more racism, anti Semitism, anti Hispanic talk since Trump was elected. This is backed up by hate crime data on the FBI’s official website website.
I think Trump dropped the ball on COVID, although admittedly I underestimated it myself. I’m not saying I would be a good President, I know I wouldn’t. But it’s not my job to be a good President, it’s his job.
Edit: also the division in this country is pretty crazy. Just the staunchly red vs blue. We’ve become the Romans. The opulence of the wealthy and the despair for those who are not. I’m not bashing on America. It’s a wonderful place to live if you have an income above a certain threshold. But I think we need a dramatic change. I also have zero faith in our higher government institutions. I fail to believe that Congress, Senate, or WH has any interest in mind other than their own. It only happens to help the public when interests are aligned, but this is sheer coincidence. I think if those in higher government could profit off the plight of the average American, they’ll drive it into the ground. But again, I’m extremely jaded against it and believe in more decentralization. I know my biases (and possibly faults)
I might get dragged for saying this on WSO, a fairly pro-trump / pro-republican site, but at this point, I’ll crawl through glass to vote against Trump. Biden was never my preferred candidate, but he’s MILES better than the orange imbecile currently in the Oval Office. But at the same time, I live in a blue state so it not like my vote will count much
The Chinese govt lets the world get infected, you have a President willing to hold them responsible and your alternative doesn't know where he is half of the time.
Makes sense to go with Biden.
How does he plan on holding them accountable? What can possibly be done? You realize we’re entirely dependent on them as a result of our own policies for fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. We can’t go to war with China, that would be ridiculous. We can’t withhold trade without hurting Americans. I’m curious to hear your thoughts.
You can't withold trade without hurting Americans? Are you serious? The debate over whether trade with China is beneficial to the US is over. It ended with a recession caused by it, and the US taxpayers having to salvage the entire economy and you have 16 million unemployed as result of that. I think Americans have been hurt enough by not witholding it. You still want it to continue? How many deaths? How many unemployed, how deep the recession must be? How long do you want to stay quarantined? How many freedoms do you want to lose, all in the name of trade with China?
Navarro said it right, buy American. You must undo what has been done for the past 20 years and that has been shifting Western manufacturing to China. And no, you will not be hurting ''Americans''. The American poor will love you for that, because your higher consumer prices are result of their wages. Sure, the upper class will be a little less happy and a little poorer, big deal. I'd pick that over 1 more week of quarantine.
Also, as always, South Park was waaaay ahead of time:
Fuck the Chinese government.
But this can't be legislated. No President can force anyone to "buy American" and corporate America has long since shown itself wholly unconcerned with being good corporate citizens. Trump's stand on China is one of the few things I support him on, but at the end of the day it's meaningless because the only way to fight the problem it represents is to either further regulate businesses or change human behavior on a wide scale. The latter is impossible and the former is unlikely.
That is the basic position of a lot of the American left at this point; we've spent forty years fetishizing businessmen, paying attention to stock price instead of wage growth (or anything else) as the benchmark for success, and effectively dehumanizing the concept of the workplace. Look the Trump Administration's response to COVID-19; it was driven by a desire to prop up the Dow, rather than for concern that citizens might die unnecessarily. Democrats aren't innocent either, but this is in large part a Republican view, and it's caused a lot of problems.
So please don't sit here and tell us there is no alternative but to "buy American." There are plenty of other ways to enfranchise workers, to raise wages and quality of life, without asking human beings to change their nature. If labor had a bigger say, none of this would have been an issue, because labor wouldn't have agreed to outsource jobs and manufacturing capability to Asia in the first place.
I find it horrifically disingenuous to hear self-professed free market conservatives sit here and advocate for meaning ourselves off foreign manufacturing, to the extent of considering literal war, when it's their policies that have led to this impasse in the first place. The solution is easy - give workers a say in corporate governance and all these problems get solved. Maybe not overnight, but to do what you want requires a paradigm shift. If you want labor to stay in the US, then you have to accept that profit margins will be lower and share prices as well. You can't run a company for the benefit of shareholders and workers simultaneously; it's a zero sum game.
Let me make myself clear: I’m not an advocate of our dependence on foreign nations, including China. I don’t have a solution, it’s not my job to come up with one. Even if I did have a solution, 99% chance there’s a lot I’m missing because I don’t have experience with supply chains/ import- export/ and foreign policy. Assuming the 1% (which is high imo) chance I do get it right, posting it on WSO wont do shit anyway.
I do think buying American is a good cause. It allows us to be more independent as a nation. But we won’t do that. By and large, people don’t give a shit. They’d rather have a new phone each year. They don’t wanna pay 5x for that phone. So buy from places with cheap labor markets.
I think you and I agree on the basis of things. I think we disagree on the solution. Or rather, I have no clue what a solution could be. I do not think Trump is an effective solution. I could be wrong and I’ll be the first to say he solved it, if he does. But I’m not holding my breath on it.
Edit: Also, I don’t think it would raise wages of poor Americans. I think it’ll grow the divide. But again, as stated above, what the fuck do I know? I’m taking guesses just like you
Its is too early to say who will win but I will be voting for Biden. In general, politicians are self serving and somewhat unethical humans. With that said, the current POTUS is self serving/unethical on steroids. There is no way I would vote for someone with these extreme characteristics.
I don’t think either candidate, if elected, would truly run the WH in a traditional executive manner, therefore this election is what group of politicians/advisers would you like in the WH, “New Republicans” à la Trumps gang or a traditional Dem grouping that Biden will bring into cabinet.
I think Trump has adopted a very similar style to the Bush/Cheney dynamic, with his close advisers in the WH (Kushner/Ivanka) and his advisers outside the WH having a large say in policy, whereas Trump, mush like Bush, is a talking head. I think Biden’s obvious mental deterioration is a clear signal that his potential stint in the WH would be very similar, with much of the heavy lifting left to his cabinet and advisers.
Therefore, I ask you the question again, which group would you prefer to have calling the shots in the Oval Office? (because I really see neither of them having the capability of leading in an executive manner themselves)
BumP
bump
I'm going with Biden because, although he isn't as sharp as he once was, he's still very much brighter and more responsible than Trump. In addition, I would count on Biden to surround himself with smart cabinet members and advisers rather than a crack team of yes-men. While I do not agree with everything on his platform, I agree with his stance on things like climate, transportation, immigration, and healthcare.
As an aside, one area where I think Trump has really failed is foreign relations. He touts himself as being tough on China, then draws out of the TPP and launches a failing trade war. He gets laughed out of G7 and NATO meetings, and he clearly lacks the respect of first world leaders. I think with a Biden presidency the United States will go back to being leader of the free world and the country will have a more positive global influence.
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