Anybody here been fired before? Whats your story, what happened after (Finance Related)
Just tried to watch Margin Call and the scene where that guy is being fired after 19 years was way too real for me to sit through and it almost gave me a mini panic attack.
How many of you have been through or seen something like that happen to someone you know. Is it easy to bounce back? Especially if you're not from a top school with lots of alumni you can call up for a new job. In my current position, I literally cannot think of more than maybe 2 people I went to school with who are now in finance and they aren't in a major hub location wise. My family is piss poor and rely on my for the most part, so if i get fired now as an A1 I am royally fucked, this is why I always make sure to speak to recruiters once in a while even though i don't want to move. I think if i can make it to VP, I would have enough saved to hold on for a while.
**My second hand story:
When I interned at a US BB, a director gave a story after training where she said she knew another director who spent lavishly with multiple homes, vacations, expensive schools and a boat etc. When he was let go due reasons unrelated to his performance which she made clear can and does happen sometimes, his monthly expenses were so high that he could not go a few months without making his usual salary and he had to clean out his retirement just to stay afloat because he was leveraged up to his eyeballs and at his level of pay, it is not uncommon to take 6+ months to find a new gig, she ended the story saying he did not live long enough to get a new job due as he could not handle the pressure from the world crumbling around him. She basically alluded to him "permanently hurting himself", this was in 2017 and I think it just happened shortly before we came in because she seemed really sad saying it and warned us to be wise with our money.
**End of story
Tales like that freak me out and make me want to save as much as possible yet I have a strong kinda morbid interest to hear about how people were able to bounce back from those situations or were not able to weather the storm.
Curious to hear any tales.
First off - that's horrific about that director. You see these things happening more and more nowadays. I won't go all boomer on everyone, but I really do believe that social media and the rapid need for keeping up w/ appearances are literally killing people. Not to mention the amount of serious depression and anxiety that comes within the financial world. Pair those two together - BAM. Not a great outcome.
That being said, I'll turn to your question. I have fortunately never been fired, although once I put a co-worker's birthday cake in the microwave intentionally and thought that was gonna be my last day. Regardless, I wouldn't needlessly stress about being fired. If you're gonna be let go, chances are you probably know why. It could be an isolated event that you fucked up on, it could be consistent poor performance, or it could be a market downtrend that is just plain unlucky. But from your post, it seems like (and if I'm wrong, please correct me - just don't want you to worry) you may have some preliminary anxiety.
That anxiety is natural, especially from folks in your position. I get the lack of alumni network and your family's financial situation. This shit is stressful. But like I said, needlessly worrying about it won't do you any good. This isn't meant to be a lecture, I've just seen so many people in your shoes. I don't have a story about being fired, but I do have a story about a particularly worrisome co-worker.
Guy is a genius. He is the youngest SVP at my old REIT, a 31-year-old dude who directly oversees 50+ employees, over $1 billion in commercial property, and has countless people up in the c-suite that respect him. His decisions are sound, logical, and they are just. Yet he is consistently and constantly worrying about being let go. About underperforming. About letting down the people who work for him, letting down the people he works for, and letting down everyone. He has all the praise in the world from everyone that's important (to his career at least), yet his self-image is piss poor. He overworks himself, doesn't eat, and just won't let himself be happy.
It's heartbreaking to watch, truly. I have so much respect for him, and that sentiment is shared among literally hundreds of people. I wish that he would understand his self-worth, and realize how important he is to those around him. Like I said - this isn't a lecture, and I'm in no way comparing this man to your post. Just an example of how needless anxiety can truly make someone unhappy. If you are good at what you do and you LIKE what you do, you're gonna be the man. Being the man is good.
This entire spiel is crazy off-topic, but hope you see what I'm getting at. Don't freak out about watching Margin Call, just try to enjoy what you do, and don't be afraid to work your ass off in the process - not too much, though! Cheers.
Thanks you have a great way with words and yes I do have anxiety unfortunately, last year I was told I was among the top new hires and felt inside like they were only saying that because I was black and they were secretly plotting to throw me out, so I know what you mean, I need to let myself be happy/proud.
I think because of my background I feel on some level I do not belong here. And you are right about social media, now that I read your post I did some deep digging and realized most of the expensive shit I buy and indulge in are in some way or form to show off for the internet, from expensive dinners and hotels to renting super cars for no reason, ashamed to admit that but it is an online forum where we come to learn so be it.
This and that scene from Margin Call made me think, I need to cool down and reassess my spending habits.
You got a good and level head on your shoulders. Just by admitting that you have the tendency to show off, that just means you're already better than 99% of the fuckheads out there who have Ferraris but also a credit score of 477. The showing off thing? Yeah, we all do it. Don't worry. When I was in my mid-20s, I was so desperate to prove to undergrad and high school friends that I had 'made it', and bought so much shit that I didn't need in an attempt to make myself feel better.
Didn't work. I had an Audi & a nice watch but was constantly feeling the need to prove myself. We all do it, it's natural. Finance is a big dick-swinging contest a lot of the time, this is the number one industry where you're gonna find all kinds of people who feel the need to go bigger, better, faster - regardless of foundation. But like I said, good for you for realizing that. Good luck my man, you got this shit. Be well!
He probably would not be that successful if he was not constantly obsessing about always trying to improve and about what could go wrong. You don't do good work by being laid back.
By my third year out of college I had been fired three times. All three were the direct result of an egregious drinking problem. Each time I thought it was the end of the world. At one point I had been out of work for 7 months and was walking dogs and considering joining a pyramid scheme to pay rent. Fast forward several years and it’s almost all behind me, basically a rounding error in the course of my career.
Getting laid off or fired, especially early in your career, isn’t ideal but it’s far from being the end of the road. And, as someone else noted, if you have an ounce of self awareness you can usually see these things coming from a mile away and can prepare accordingly.
Did you make the connection between being fired and your drinking problem at the time? Are you doing better now?
I was never a subtle drinker. I reached the point where I was starting my day with booze so there was really no other reason but the drinking.
I’ve been sober for a number of years now and my life is infinitely better, professionally and personally.
I got laid off 1.5 years after starting my first job. Company was merged w/ a competitor, changed the CEO, laid of 30% of staff.
I was panicked in the moment but was able to get an offer from a new firm launched by some of the executive alumni almost immediately, and also got interviews with several household name competitors. Decided to join the new firm.
I was terrified in the moment but honestly I should have been more self-confident. If you work hard things will work themselves out.
There is a big difference being laid off versus being fired for cause.
My dad was laid off in 2008 , family lost their house, and never financially recovered. Part of it was the recessions fault, but the other part (and I didnt realize this at the time) was we were living way beyond means.
Since I started working I've been saving like a hawk. Getting laid off or fired really dont think would phase me one bit. Also never been easier for 'gap' work between jobs. Cant live in fear like that just have to prepare yourself.
.
Also there are two skills you should have. The first is being good or even 'good enough' at your job. If you do this you will usually be fine, but there can be market downturns where you will be screwed.
The second, and they often arent even related, is the ability to get a job. How to build a powerful action and results oriented resume. How to network with people you dont know. How to get foot in door for jobs - because if you dump your resume on some online portal you will often be screwed. If you learn this skill, and it really isn't that hard, then you wont be too worried if you are unemployed.
If that story freaks you out, you need to change your spending habits. Losing my job for 6 months or even a year does not scare me at all as I keep my spending pretty low key.
two points:
1. have you ever been to a retirement party for someone whose been successful or an award ceremony honoring someone success and the person talks about how lucky they are. Sometimes, having kept your job or being successful is more luck than we like to admit. I've been directors get fired or let go just because their vertical blew up or hasnt had anything going on in it for a while, thats out of your hands.
2. If you watch American football, they have a saying, "more time is spent worrying about the blitz than the damage the blitz causes", another way to put it for finance, "more money has been lost worrying about market falls, then from actual market falls." Getting fired/let go is something to think about, but don't spent more time worrying about it than dealing with it when it happens.
Also, financial, theres a saying would you like to live like a king for a short time, or as a prince for a long time. If you make $50M a year, but your expenses are $50M and $1, you're still paycheck to paycheck essentially. A lot of people looking at how much you make, but its about how much you spend and how much you keep.
How difficult is it to make sure that you have at least 1 years of consumption in savings? I save a lot more than I spend...meaning that if I lose my job I could stay afloat for years. Also...unemployment insurance gives me up to 80% of my salary (incl. bonus) for up to 6 months, if I lose my job.
I’ve worked with tons of guys that have maybe 1 to 3 months cash in the bank. Incredibly common. Goes for people making $50k to $2m+ a year. It’s actually kind of impressive how some people manage to rack up serious spend without kids/family to support lol
I think this is especially common in NYC. In other places, once you're making a certain amount of money you can buy the nicest local house, eat at the nicest local restaurants, and spend as much as you want at the nicest bars without bankrupting yourself. There's just a cap on how much you can spend. But in New York you can blow an unlimited amount of money.
When I asked one of our go-to lawyers about coming onboard full time he told me his breakeven was $800k.
-3 kids sent to NY for liberal arts
-Ridiculous house
-Divorced
-Detached house as a "man cave" but it was insanely overkill
-Boat, ATVs, etc all the toys. Japanese whisky collection, really anything you can think of.
This was in an LCOL state...ridiculous lifestyle. It stressed me out hearing about it.
Vegas is like this too for vacations lol.
How do people with serious earnings (400k+) end up in a paycheck to paycheck situation in your experience? Even with nice cars, vacations, etc. that is hard to blow through. Main ways I can think of:
- Divorce / alimony
- Private school for kids
- buying too much house, very easy in HCOL area
- vacation home
- boat
Mainly its attitude. $10 is a lot of money if all your expenses are $9, but not a lot if all your expenses are $11. Add/subtract 0's to the end, its the same thing. A lot of people see a paycheck and think they can spent it all, its a mindset because they tell themselves they will "catch up" on savings on the next paycheck.
For some people, $400k is the cost to fill up their yacht, for others, its lifetime savings or 10 years of living. If you're in the middle, people get hung up on "I make $400K", as if its unlimited money. Paycheck to paycheck is mostly poor money management, unless you make below the poverty line. If you're driving all over town or browsing the internet to save $5 on shoes, you make $400k there's probably a better use of your time. However, $400k can be spent quicker than it can be earned. Mortgage payments, car payments, school payments, country club payments, I make $400k I need some good suits, mine turn to treat at dinner, golf trip, ski trip, family trip where you have to pay for extended family because you appear to be doing "well", tickets here, tickets there, I make $400k of course I'll get the family Canada goose jackets...stuff like that.
Best practice is at least six months of expenses in savings for these kinds of scenarios. Like ResMan said, eventually the savings can become organic by simple earning more despite having an elevated and relaxed spending habit. Otherwise, it's definitely a good idea to make an active effort to build those savings in the first couple of years in the workforce. Then just step it up as your income and expenses grow so you can watch your anxiety shrink in equal measure.
Yes, from a corporate job that I absolutely despised. It was the kind of job where you'd get yelled at for showing up at 8:01 or leaving at 4:59, or if you were caught on your phone at any time whatsoever. Finances were also pretty tight at the time because the salary was garbage too, but it ended up being a blessing in disguise and I found a new job within about a month.
Back after graduation I picked up some contract work while job searching and I remember the manager got mad at me for being on my phone, after I finished all the work for the week in about a day. They had just been hiring people that didn't come from a IB background and were about 100x slower than me and weren't use to people doing a good job.
I was "fired" from an unpaid internship. Basically, me and the guy directly supervising me did not get along from the very first day. Honestly, I think it's because he thought I was gay.
Anyways, 2/3 of the way through the summer I told him over email I would be leaving at the end of that week. He responded by emailing come to my office where he basically said you can't quit because you're fired. It had me feeling kinda shitty for a few days, but a week later I ended up getting an IB SA offer so I forgot about it quickly.
Two summers later, HR at a BB internship said a red flag came up in my background check and some guy interrogated me for about an hour about whether I quit or was fired. I had email proof saying I quit, so not sure why this was a big deal. No other background check ever flagged it. Firmly in the past now as I am a FT analyst at a different top BB in a top group so do not let stupid shit like that make you believe you're less qualified.
Sorry to hear that guy had to piss on your parade just for their own fee-fee's, but mad props to you for keeping the written proof.
Ducimus explicabo incidunt qui est autem. Nobis ut nihil earum molestiae aspernatur adipisci.
Est id libero esse perspiciatis nihil at. Aut accusamus eos aut omnis molestiae quae ipsam. Laudantium quod quis atque aliquid atque et optio.
Recusandae occaecati eligendi commodi dolore rerum. Magni aut repellat facilis. Distinctio voluptate repellendus impedit esse praesentium iure.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Minima iure esse qui quia. Aut dolores amet deserunt. Culpa adipisci minus quam sunt impedit. Asperiores voluptas impedit doloremque modi cum molestiae perferendis.
Tempora ratione similique ipsum reprehenderit. Voluptatum vel cumque corporis quos aliquam. Molestiae consequatur consequatur ut quis qui. Amet odio rerum cumque aut architecto ullam. Quibusdam et facilis et officiis exercitationem quam. Ratione sint vero placeat quia sit voluptas ex. Veniam veritatis temporibus et quia quod eos quisquam.
Itaque tempora voluptates tenetur expedita sint. Est eaque quas nihil facere. Suscipit neque autem voluptas nemo sit accusantium. Necessitatibus excepturi labore numquam non sunt amet.