Are you pro-life?
I just watched an abortion video.
Within 2 min, I went from being pro-choice to being pro-life.
I understand the pro-choice argument, but thing is, you're carrying ANOTHER person and that person has rights.
Trending Content
| +92 | Are you “less ambitious” for having long term goals outside of NYC | 22 | 2d | |
| +57 | How to sound more eloquent? | 26 | 1d | |
| +40 | WSO Ranking On Resume??? | 10 | 2d | |
| +35 | Interviews Are So Fake | 23 | 5s | |
| +33 | 2024 UK Election - Tories finished? | 20 | 10h | |
| +29 | Being Christian in investment banking | 14 | 4h | |
| +26 | Is my boss gaslighting me? | 3 | 5d | |
| +22 | Ideas for things to do with a free semester before starting ft? | 9 | 1d | |
| +20 | Sabotaging Peers to Get Ahead? | 34 | 3d | |
| +19 | What's going on at Columbia? | 16 | 7m |
Career Resources
Pro-life. You're not me, so idgaf
What? Are you also going to stop eating meat after you watch videos of an abattoir?
I do know some people who have, though, so I guess it's not that far-fetched...
Well, thing is, during that video, I could see the little thing still moving (as he was alive).
And that innocence just killed me. I mean, it was a f*cking murder.
Didn't know they give abortions that late
Plants move. Animals move. Why don't you feel the same about killing them?
Life is precious. Intelligent life is even more precious when you realize our current situation (i.e. alone on this small planet, lost in a hostile universe)
So what you are saying is that if the fetus has downs, it should get aborted? Because the average iq of down syndrome kids is right on par with the iq of dogs and parrots.
Go watch the video. I sent it to you.
Then give me your feedback.
Retarded comment. He's stating the fact that it moved to argue that it's a human, not an organism. Following your statement to its conclusion would entail calling someone a hypocrite if they have a problem with murder in general, since hey, plants and animals move too.
And I'm pro-life generally but not die-hard, but statements like those are just stupid regardless of what you think though.
Retarded response. plenty of non-human things move, movement is not a proof of "humanity". The necessary condition for an organism to be considered "life" is the ability to sustain in ambient conditions. Until the fetus is able to breathe air and digest sustenance, it is no different from a monster tumor.
(get ready to have your mind blown) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratoma
What it probably boils down to is - do you think a fetus is a living human being? If you do, then you're probably going to be anti-abortion. If you don't, then you'll likely be pro-choice. And if you think that there's some arbitrary sort of line during the pregnancy where the fetus becomes more human than clump-of-cells, then chances are that you will support abortion before that point, and oppose it after.
Are second/third trimester abortions really legal? Because that is beyond is fucked up.
They are only legal in some cases (called still born abortion, won't go into details, but it's nasty), in which the birth of this child (c sect or other wise) is detrimental to the mother's health and life threatening.
Depends on exactly how far along the pregnancy is, Jeff. 21 weeks or less and the fetus isn't considered viable on its own, or something like that.
I believe in the right to choice up to a certain stage of pregnancy. I agree that aborting a fetus that is 4-6+ months along is wrong, but, like Angus said, at a certain stage the fetus isn't viable on its own and doesn't have a lot of brain functionality. When to exactly draw the line, I don't know. Leave that to the experts.
Not a personal attack or anything, but I've always struggled with the idea that "life is precious/priceless". Everyone says that, and it's nice to think it, but if you truly believed it you would have to sell most of your possessions and start giving to charities that help feed starving children. Hell, I could easily move to Brooklyn and use the $500 in rent savings each month to save like, what, 10-15 lives?
abdel, what about cases of incest or rape
Minor's are allowed to only with parent's consent, or court motion (in case of incest when parent may not approve, for some sick reason).
I agree that abortions should be allowed for cases like incest and rape but I don't see why victims of those crimes would wait till their third trimester. They have six months to make that choice which should be plenty of time. An abortion past six months is just cruel and inhumane as a baby is almost formed.
Abdel, do you mind sending me that video also?
As an adopted kid, it'd be pretty fucked up if I weren't pro life. That said, I think the entire fucking species should stop breeding, like, right fucking now.
100% agree. I became pro-life (within reason) a few years back. I have no problem with early (
Steve Jobs was supposedly pro-choice, he certainly had no qualm supporting all those pro-choice Politicians. I guess he truly believed that what he created at Apple was nothing special.
Didn't the shakers try to do that? Didn't turn out too well for them.
Intelligent life is precious. The majority of people are not intelligent. I think abortion is kind of dumb since people have countless measures so they never get to that point, but I don't want the government getting involved in personal choice.
How do you feel about national healthcare? Caring about an innocent life shouldn't end once they are born.
Watched the video. So... because it looks like a baby and it's alive, you're against abortion?
Me, I see it a little differently. I think abortion has a net positive effect on general welfare of the population.
I am anti abortion. However, I would be for a society what was pro choice if it acknowledged that it was killing babies, and that had voted specifically on allowing for the killing of babies until the whatever week of gestation, JUST SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE FACED THE GRAVITY OF WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
Pro-life and vegetarian right here. What I can't stand more than anything are vegetarian liberals who are pro-choice/anti-life and like to make their positions known.
Because you can only be for or against anything? There is no in between? If you watched a gruesome vidoe of open heart surgery, would you be against that too?
Are you for or against raises: What if it's your raise? What if it's a union boss? What if someone is being promoted? It's not so cut and dry, now is it, there are other considerations.
Beyond general elections, reality is more complicated than simple up/down votes.
I'm pro-choice, but encourage life: abortion is a major proceedure and should be treated as such, and I like children. When people are stupidly anti-choice, I just tell them I'm pro-death and that they can suck it.
how about this rape/incest thing
i'd like to know if it is about protecting life or punishing women for getting knocked up
If it was about protecting life, how about start with the mulititude of other areas where life is being wontonly abused: start with the miserable failure of a healthcare system in the US, them move on to diet, substance abuse, smoking, crime, and poverty. Then, move on to war and ethnic cleansing, several million people died over the last few decades and they barely made the news. Use this in a debate and watch them change the subject or get nasty because there's really no way around this logic.
Pro life....
There was a political cartoon a while ago in some periodical and it was a man upset that God (this isn't a deity conversation) never sent someone to cure aids, cancer, war and poverty. Then the diety from above goes " I did and you aborted them"
I've seen that, but it also could've been the next Hitler. See my comment above about who actually usually needs these procedures. The value of life for these children in most cases is not that great.
Also, to everyone saying you're prolife bc of abortions after 2nd trimester, that answer is irrelevant because there is actually a cut off point. You can't say you aren't pro choice if you think it is okay before the 2nd trimester because that is really the only option.
Pro death.
Pro abortion, pro war, pro suicide, pro assisted suicide, pro death penalty, pro whatever makes the line at Starbucks shorter
I like you.
I'm pro life and this is fantastic. +1
i-pro-life...respect for life
Pro-Choice up until a certain point in the pregnancy. I don't think late term abortions should be legal unless:
--the mother's life is at risk --the babby is extremely fucked up / won't survive after birth (I don't know the technical terms, but the general reasons why late term abortions actually happen). As I understand it, these two points often go hand in hand.
That said, a clump of cells is not a human being. If you take care of it early, it's fine. And I don't want to hear the "it's the possibility of life" argument, because it's total bunk. If you believe that, then stop jerking off.
To add: the entire argument that life begins at conception is complete and total non-sense. It's based on pseudo-science Catholic church crap and should not be taken seriously in the abortion debate. "omg the sperm is in the egg, it's a human life!" Bullshit.
Lastly: it's not going anywhere. So, why not keep it legal and safe instead of having to force women into dangerous black market abortions. Plus, we've got WAY bigger fish to fry than worrying about whether or not 1,000 celled zygotes get sucked out through a vacuum tube.
Technically we still are a clump of cells
In a situation involving me personally, I will certainly be pro-life (although that's a little empty, since I'm a dude). I would never vote pro-life, however. Ironic how a bunch of old white men think they can tell women what to do with their bodies.
Haven't read the whole string of comments yet, but I'm a poli sci minor. Had a class where we dedicated an entire section on this. In essence, it is not a person. It is not a viable life form as it is unsustainable outside the womb. Also, it is the women's choice. Domestic affairs are private and personal, no regulations should prohibit their actions. Furthermore, if you're the father, wouldn't you want the option of abortion? Even though you can't choose, if you decide YOU don't want a kid either, wouldn't you rather abort than end up paying child support for the next 18 years when you might have other things to focus on? People shouldn't have children till their ready, financially and emotionally. If you have one before that, all your doing is fucking up the kid's life and your own.
This is true and unfair to men, however I respect the logic behind it. If you knock up some crazy chick who wants the baby when you're both 19 and you plan on going to college and having a career, it can really screw things up. But I guess equal equity in this case is not really an option.
This would be an interesting thing to research, have there ever been any cases regarding a male trying to get out of child care on grounds of his lack of choice in the matter?
Wow, so you've had a section of one semester of your minor in a bullshit subject talk about abortion and now you can inform us of the truth? The adults are talking, let us know how sophomore year goes.
To those throwing around the rape/incest argument, those account for less than 1% of abortions in this country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States
Anyone that has seen video of a fetus before birth but thinks that there's some magic moment where they go from non-human to human is delusional.
I'll be pro-life and willing to legislate women's bodies the minute men start getting snipped for unpaid child support.
Have a nice day!
Positives far outweigh the negatives and I agree with TNA in this case, any situation that limits the amount of government intrusion on personal freedoms is best.
Also, there are something like 5M kids in the foster system currently. Telling someone they should have a child and put it up for adoption if they can't afford it/don't want it is retarded.
For all you pro lifers, what about in cases of rape? The same thing happens to that poor defenseless fetus, what do you do in that case?
Also to point out to people, a lot of people abort because they are unable to provide or not ready (e.g. teen, low income, etc). Allowing them this option is vital. Is forcing them to have the child really going to be the best thing for that child? Granted adoption is an option, but it is not always possible in certain circumstances. I know that the study was sort of proved null, but the micro study on abortions in Freakonomics is still very intriguing and valid in my opinion.
Only during the work week.
Pro-choice. Only for first trimester abortions though.
abortion is an issue that i won't touch with a 10 foot pole.
Pro-life. And I am astonished at the false comparison of Angus. If an animal moves, it means the animal is alive. So what? But if a human moves, it means the HUMAN is alive. It is wrong to kill innocent humans. The OP is asserting that it is a human and it is alive, and he claims what he saw in the video as evidence. What do slaughterhouses have to do with anything?
Maybe a touchy issue, but aborted embryos are an important factor in stem cell research. Repairing paralysis for example, or healing AIDs, cancer, MS. The list goes on. These are benefits of this perhaps otherwise considered unacceptable act.
False. Aborted embryos aren't used, don't let the obsessed pro-life jeeeeeezus crowd fool you.
"Embryonic stem cells, as their name suggests, are derived from embryos. Most embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos that develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro—in an in vitro fertilization clinic—and then donated for research purposes with informed consent of the donors. They are not derived from eggs fertilized in a woman's body."
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics3.asp
Shit has nothing to do with abortion.
Good post. Did not know this.
Also, question for everyone:
When you say you are pro life, does that mean you'd support legislation prohibiting all abortion?
Or is this more of a personal moral stand point you choose to observe?
I find that there tends to be a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to this issue. People will beat their drum and yell Pro-Life all day...until their thirteen year-old daughter gets pregnant.
I completely respect everyone in here's views and support of pro life.
However, there is one snag which I find socially disturbing, this is the best rhetoric I can use to explain it.
Pro choice is not an imposing view, it merely is an allowance, or a negative liberty (gov't can't impose) on society.
Whereas pro life is the opposite, it is the imposition of legislation on the choice of the individual and how they conduct there private/ household lives.
Both are respective opinions I think, but pro life should not be legislated.
I completely respect everyone in here's views and support of pro-choice.
However, there is one snag which I find socially disturbing, this is the best rhetoric I can use to explain it.
Pro-life is not an imposing view, it merely is an allowance, or a negative liberty (gov't can't impose) on a person's right to life.
Whereas pro-choice is the opposite, it is the imposition of legislation on the right of the individual and gives someone the right to take a child's life in their own hands when they fully are aware that sex will possibly lead to pregnancy.
Both are respective opinions I think, but pro-choice should not be legislated.
You see where I'm going with this? It's not that I'm even that pro-life, which I'm not, I'm just trying to point out that this argument falls COMPLETELY on someone's opinion of whether the fetus is human and I'm playing devil's advocate with you.
If the fetus isn't human --> government is taking liberty away from the woman.
If the fetus is human --> government is allowing a woman to kill the human.
This is why libertarians are divided on the issue. If the fetus has a right to liberty and life, you're staunchly pro-life. It's EXTREMELY socially disturbing then that somone would advocate the legality of murduring. If the fetus isn't a human, you're staunchy pro-choice. Perspective is everything.
I'm very confused by your formatting choice. But, this argument has nothing to do a fetus is or is not a baby before a certain point. I do not advocate abortion after I believe 2nd trimester (or 1st), as it is a viable life form. I find it strange for someone to consider it "alive" before that point when science indicates it is not self sustaining or viable, hence not alive.
I would have to say I am pro-life, but sit on the fence as to whether or not I care enough about what other people choose. I grew up going to church so it's something that I wouldn't want to do, but I also understand that you can't legislate morality.
There are a couple issues that are critical in the abortion argument. First is when life actually starts and the inevitable follow-up 'but' questions (as mentioned above)...but what about rape and incest. Clearly the second part doesn't have an easy answer but I often wonder about the first. If a person is alive until their heart stops, wouldn't that indicate that they are alive once their heart starts?
Now, I'm not arguing a certain position here, so much as just raising some questions. If I shot you, I will likely be charged with attempted murder. If I shot you and your heart stops, I will likely be charged with murder. If the heartbeat determines death, should it also not determine life?
As for rape and incest, I don't know where I saw it, but recall reading that rape and incest abortions account for less than 1% of all abortions...so while it is an issue to some, it's more of a straw man when it comes to the abortion argument.
Personally I think adoption should be an option for all pregnant women who don't think they want their baby but sadly, in nearly all cases, it's rarely encouraged. I recall reading about the adoption statistics for Planned Parenthood and they are, almost literally, nonexistent...almost every woman that walks into Planned Parenthood pregnant looking for her options ends up aborting her child/fetus/cell/embryo.
Anyways, I do think there is a cause for concern when you factor in the aspect of moral decay. What has a society come to when it doesn't protect it's most vulnerable, the young and the old? The irony in all of this is how people, mainly the left, champion the right for women to choose but fail to realize that in doing so the woman is giving up her most sacred possession, her womb. As is pointed out in this video, is there any other person on earth that should be more safe than a child in their mother's womb? It's like there has been such a severe push for women to assert their rights that they are almost leaving behind the characteristics that make them a woman to begin with. Just food for thought.
Anyways, this video was sent to me recently and is rather great. This isn't your standard abortion hit piece but it does make you think about where you stand and your choice about a number of things...
Regards
You also need to determine quality of life (a whole other subject). But if someone's heart is beating, but brain dead forever and can't eat, move, talk, blink, etc, are they alive? Would you rather exist this way? Or be "unplugged"? I would prefer the latter myself.
Yeah, I think by any definition of the law, they are alive. At any rate, that doesn't typically apply to abortion cases, but if that was a consideration, where does it stop? Birth defects? Missing limbs? Down syndrome? Genetic predispositions for incurable diseases?
The ultimate question is how do you know what quality of life a person can have when they are just a fetus...or ever, for that matter? Wilma Rudolph was diagnosed with Poliomyelitis as a child and was told by doctors that she would have to wear leg braces the rest of her life. Well, she didn't have any on when she won 3 gold medals at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome. Catch my drift?
Regards
Forget fetus, I don't even consider babies human until they are able to walk me through a DCF.
Laughed out loud in work, bravo.
Pro choice, only first trimester abortions.
Here's the video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db9_1335502312
Watch it if you have the courage.
Two things you forgot to mention:
It's an abortion video, no need for NSFW.
This is what I forgot to mention:
haha
Gross. The lady needs a bush-whacker. Also in the case of the video that fetus is at least 6 months along; nobody here advocates 3rd trimester abortions unless absolutely necessary.
I'm pro life, but fetus consumption cured my paralysis.
Well sure, in absolute terms, all lives are equal (plants, humans, etc.) in the sense that if we're thrown into space, the universe won't make the distinction between a human and a plant. He'll kill us both.
However, if we apply that reasoning to everyday's life, then one shouldn't have a problem with eating fellow humans or even a human fetus. I mean, if we discover that some of our body parts are tasty, why not have a slaugherhouse for humans?
Also, I'll be able to kill people out in the street for no reason and I won't be thrown in jail. I mean, if I can walk on an ant & kill it, why not run over humans & kill them?
Anyone to adress this?
How's that, cupcake?
Fuck talking about abortion. R v Wade won't be overturned ever. Unless there is legislation that will start legalizing late term abortions, I am just not going to talk about it. It is a lose lose for anyone involved in that conversation. We will all figure out who was right or wrong when we are dead.
In the meantime, we should really be just focusing on the economy.
Haha, I like this. But it is just an academic discussion exploring different aspects of the two camps. I don't plan on gaining anything from this except hearing well structured debates from both sides and analyzing their critiques and premises of their platform.
THIS, abortion is a distraction issue IMO. While the electorate is split 50-50 arguing pro-life(best branding name ever) vs pro-choice the politicians rape our freedoms and bank accounts.
I always avoid abortion debates like the plague and try my hardest to not even mention anything about it around co workers. There are zealots on both sides and people get legit upset if your on the other side.
Now back to the NFL draft
o wait, if I'm pro choice, this means that I'm allowed not to give tips.
Who cares if the barman/maid isn't paid enough. He/she can starve to death, who gives a shit.
I know that Nobama is being sarcastic, but traditionally, it is young, underage, low income individuals who have had unwanted pregnancies that result in abortion. Some of this may be due to the social taboo of teenage sex in America. I'm certainly not condoning sex among middle schoolers, however I'm simply saying that it does happen sometimes and these kids cannot be held as morally and responsibly accountable as their adult counterparts.
This is what I was talking about, although I didn't find the video I was talking about. Just to be fair, they are allegations at this point.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art49020.asp
Also interesting...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9102589/Abortion-investiga…
Regards
Honestly, if you are willing to abort the baby anyways, you might as well let the mother go insane and drown the baby in the tub. At the end of the day you don't have to worry about the baby and you can put a twisted, deranged person behind bars.
Surely you see how 'depression' can simply be used as a reason, even if there isn't proof?
It's interesting because the initial contact at the office appeared to steer her in the direction in which she would be able to get the abortion, even though the expecting mother expressed that she merely wanted to abort the baby because it was the wrong sex.
The article states: When the woman said she wanted an abortion because “it’s a girl and I have a girl already, and I really want a boy”, the counsellor told her that it was illegal to have a termination for that reason. However, when the would-be patient asked if they had to mention the reason she had stated, the counsellor said: “I mean, if you want to tell me something different, another reason why you don’t want to continue with this pregnancy … I can put that.”
Clearly the worker was implying that they could ignore the stated reason for the abortion and choose one that was more appropriate and legal.
Regards
"Tired of the bullshit, a female Democrat shot back with a bill that would limit vasectomies in the state. The author of the No Child Left in Ballsack Act is Yasmin Neal, a Democrat from Riverdale. In a statement to the media, she said,
Thousands of children are deprived of birth in this state every year because of the lack of state regulation over vasectomies. It is patently unfair that men can avoid unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly, while women's ability to decide is constantly up for debate throughout the United States."
http://jezebel.com/5887293/smartass-state-lawmaker-proposes-vasectomy-l…
[quote=guerrillagrrl]"Tired of the bullshit, a female Democrat shot back with a bill that would limit vasectomies in the state. The author of the No Child Left in Ballsack Act is Yasmin Neal, a Democrat from Riverdale. In a statement to the media, she said,
Thousands of children are deprived of birth in this state every year because of the lack of state regulation over vasectomies. It is patently unfair that men can avoid unwanted fatherhood by presuming that their judgment over such matters is more valid than the judgment of the General Assembly, while women's ability to decide is constantly up for debate throughout the United States."
http://jezebel.com/5887293/smartass-state-lawmaker-proposes-vasectomy-l…]
This is why women shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a decision-making body.
Don't want to read this thread because I'm sure it sucks but...Abdel was never pro choice and he is full of shit.
depends on the case for me... not gonna call myself pro-life or pro-choice, but I'm sick of whores using abortion clinics as their morning after pills
this..every circumstance is different
you have that much experience with that?
prolife
.
For anyone who hasn't read Freakonomics - an interesting video:
[quote=caneman9]For anyone who hasn't read Freakonomics - an interesting video:
]
I believe there have been quite a few refuting claims to this study (one even in which Levitt admits a fallacy to his conclusion), but I find this fascinating and actually think that this study is actually legitimate and for the most part correct.
two biggest pro choice arguments I hear and have a difficult time refuting:
^^ In both of those scenarios I do not understand how you can argue pro-life. That being said I am still on the fence.
1: morning pills (think it's up to 2 days)
2: well, we might as well eliminate all the 'retards' on this planet. We cain't let them suffer.
There's a lot of controversy about morning after pills, from what i understand they are not easily accessible everywhere. Moreover, abstinence-based education does not teach teenagers - who are the most likely demographic to have risky and/or unplanned sex - about contraception and morning-after pills. Unfortunately, in this country we have the political climate that allows buffoons like santorum to get enough support to go as far as he has gone. Is contraception better than abortion? You betcha! But until we all agree to teach our teenagers and young adults about safe and responsible sex (like they do it in sweden), we need measures to correct mistakes further down the line. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070318/26sex.htm
I definitely see no problem with encouraging abortion of defected feti. It still should be up to the mother to decide, and if she wants a retarded baby, nobody can tell her different; but as a society we have NO REASON to prohibit a mother from aborting a defective fetus.
those are pretty horrible points you made there, Abdel
How are those points horrible?
If a girl gets rape, the first thing she has to do is:
chek for deseases then pop a pill. That's pretty standard in those cases.
To the subject about abortion if we know that the unborn person will be retarted, I only pushed his argument to its limits to test its validity and clearly, it is not valid.
except sometimes, getting violently penetrated against your will by another human being that you've never met may make you very distraught? leaving you unable to think clearly?
people who think this shit is so black and white are fucking annoying. not everybody thinks the way that you do while you're sitting in your computer chair staring at a screen NOT having just been raped.
@Abdel
1 - Somehow I don't think after a woman was raped the first thing on her mind is "welp better hop down to my local safeway in the next 24 hours and get a Plan B" Probably in a pretty fragile state not to mention the pill is expensive if not subsidized in some states
2 - By saying you would allow that baby to come to term your essentially punishing the child for the mothers actions. Your cool with that kid being in a vegetative state the rest of its life? Fairly easy to say from someone who is likely 100% healthy.
And fairly easy to say from someone who wasn't aborted...
And fairly easy to say from someone who should have been aborted...
This is why I can't take a definite stand. Nobody knows what either side is truly feeling, and you'd be pretty fucking stupid to act as if you did. It depends on the case, not everything has to be so fucking black and white.
black and white. just like that.
I know what you're saying but my point is, that girl will carry ANOTHER person and that person has rights.
It's like you are saying the government should have more rights than tax payers, because it started parasitizing off of us, so now it is our duty to keep feeding it to the detriment of our own well-being...
Just because a "person" has a right to life does not mean that he/she has the right to use another's body in order to survive. Nuff said.
Pro-Choice.
She did NOT choose to be in that girl's body. That girl DECIDED to invite/force her in her body knowing that she couldn't survive by herself.
It is as if I force you into my place, break every bone in your body so you cain't move around and survive on your own and then tell you:
''hey man, this is MY place, so I can do whatever I want. You have a right to your life but not a right to be here. Therefore, I'm killing you. ''
that is a beautiful analogy
First, let me say that I do not think it's morally "ok" to have an abortion if the mother engaged in sex voluntarily with the INTENTION of getting pregnant. In this case your analogy is correct.
However, if the mother engaged in sex voluntarily, or involuntarily for that matter, WITHOUT the intention of getting pregnant you can't possibly claim that she invited/forced the person inside her body. Thus, the mother did NOT grant the person a right to use her body in order to survive, and therefore having an abortion is morally permissible.
Furthermore, your assuming that every girl that gets pregnant "DECIDED" to get pregnant. When in fact a study show that 49% of all pregnancies in 2006 were unintended.
http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/UnintendedPregnancy/index.htm
threads like this make me appreciate prestige threads a lot more
Pro-life. I would honestly never vote for a politician who is "pro-choice"- which, by the way, is the most PC term for killing babies out there.
That said, I think abortion in cases of rape is ok. The psychological harm that giving birth to a child of a man who assaulted you is probably insanely high. Furthermore, the child would probably HAVE to be set up for adoption, since he/she would be a psychological burden on the mother- probably being unintentionally abused/resented. Abortion in cases of incest is retarded. It was either consensual sex- so why force the child to die? Or rape- which I just said abortion should be allowed.
Another case where I think that abortion is ok, but is more controversial, is in cases where the child has a terrible, painful, disease that would result in a VERY SHORT LIFE anyway. I would posit, Tay-Sachs, SCID, and Lesch-Nyhan Syndrome as possible contenders. While I put this forth, I also would caution it's implementation. Because on the list of "painful, life-shortening, diseases" that some abortion advocates list as ones that should be allowable for partial-birth abortions (which are illegal in most cases) there is one that I have.
Personally, as a Cystic Fibrosis afflicted child adopted from a 19 year-old unmarried waitress, I feel there were a lot of opportunities for abortionists to get the better of me. That said, I still LOVE my life and thank God every day that I have the opportunity to live. There are times that are difficult, but even if I don't get my transplant and die in the next few years I would still rather have lived than not at all.
What about cases in which the mother's health is in danger?
Forgot about that one. I think that's valid too. In my opinion the priority of medicine should be in preserving life- if the mother is gonna die, be crippled, etc. it should be up to the mother to decide if she is fit to do so (aka. conscious, sane, etc.)
I just wanted to quote the original post so everyone knows Abdel was full of shit when he said this. No, he didn't watch a video and no, he was never pro-choice. It would be particularly weird if he actually was pro choice yet his mother had told him he was almost aborted.
Have you watched the video? It's brutal. I posted the link in page 2 I think.
In regards to my mother almost aborting, thing never told torn me. It actually was the opposite, I use to tell she should have aborted so I wouldn't have to wake up everyday in this world full of keynesians.
I don't give a shit about the video, not even getting involved in this debate. I was simply pointing out that you were being deliberately manipulative in your original post (and have been throughout). You were never pro-choice, you just thought it made your argument more legitimate.
I think too many are focusing on the rape hypothetical. Can't almost all of us agree that regardless of the morality, that LEGALLY, there should be an exception for rape?? That's why I think disussing rape is getting off-topic because I see that as almost a given. We should be discussing the case that occurs 99% of the time, when a woman has sex knowing that there is a risk of pregnancy (however small), gets knocked up, and then faces the choice whether to abort or not.
yeah, you would think that the rape aspect would be a given with any half-intelligent human being... apparently not with abdel
I don't see an argument = invalid statement.
The problem with this is that any girl can get pregnant through consensual sex and then scream rape when she finds out she is preggo.
Seriously, as a guy, you do not want abortion to be legal for only cases of rape and illegal for anything else. You will start to see a lot more charges of rape...
Abdel..you suck
Lol you act like rape is clear-cut as well.
How will a legal abortion be determined then? A successfully prosecuted rape? What if he denies it and claims right to being the active father? What if she says he raped her but he denies it and demands the fetus be carried to term? By the time a rape would be proven as such the kid will be in 1st grade.
Exactly. This is why I stated that it would essentially have to be no abortions at all or yes to everything. If there are exceptions people will circumvent the situation...as alleged in the link I provided a few pages ago.
Regards
Yes but you seem to be arguing for pro-life. (Just skimmed, sorry) I am firmly pro-choice.
If you are not going to be around with a knocked up single mom in raising the kid, you have zero say in whether she should get an abortion or not.
Plus abortion leads to lower crime rates.
Life occurs with life experience. How can a fetus have life experience? Stop trying to project your own feelings and values on an unborn fetus.
I believe some people have called that claim into question...so it's not that cut and dry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Impact_of_Legalized_Abortion_on_Crime#…
Regards
Yes but by that logic we should (as some abortion enthusiasts have suggested like Peter Singer) be able to "abort" babies until they're about 5 because they're not real people yet and don't have memories. He advocates a "trial period." The point isn't about life experiences per se but what constitutes life and the slippery slope argument - the whole attitude that if we can control other humans' destinies and speak to whether their life is valuable, where will this lead philisophically, etc.
Illo deleniti voluptas quasi culpa quia sint et quasi. Consequatur recusandae reiciendis blanditiis tempore ut voluptatem. Laudantium nihil accusamus mollitia. Dicta velit quos laboriosam aut doloribus quis.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Soluta impedit porro at repellat consequatur enim magnam amet. Aut non laboriosam facilis magni voluptatem non. Voluptas adipisci omnis earum sint sunt porro nulla vitae. Cum omnis saepe aut velit. Nobis ut accusamus voluptatem beatae quo.
Eos et quis omnis. Dolores sit qui voluptas ipsa nihil. Aut molestiae ut et rerum. Occaecati non iure repudiandae accusamus quia molestiae id. Quia nam possimus ullam quas nesciunt error.
Est earum necessitatibus corporis in adipisci voluptatem eos commodi. Adipisci reprehenderit ut tempore ut sunt.
Ut impedit eveniet ratione quia voluptas enim quos. Doloribus ipsam porro pariatur iure facere est neque autem. Iusto omnis ut aut totam repellat quam incidunt aut. Magnam nihil vel eum eveniet ut.
Assumenda odio quidem voluptatem numquam. Doloribus corrupti quidem veniam. Ad velit aut placeat voluptas ea autem.
Eum similique reprehenderit illum et laborum perspiciatis eveniet. Sequi quod molestias id et repudiandae est rem. Aut illum aliquid adipisci.
Repudiandae dolorum ipsum sed nostrum aut ratione voluptatem ratione. Nulla est ut officia labore ut suscipit. Et nisi velit iusto quasi et. Dignissimos perspiciatis perspiciatis velit quasi quisquam ipsum. Eos est tenetur consectetur error repellendus provident ea at. Deleniti sequi sint est aut a.
Enim debitis impedit nemo repellat doloremque ea. Et et nostrum voluptates dolores et quos quam. Ut quod doloribus adipisci est dignissimos.
Nisi laboriosam natus voluptatem et. Repudiandae nesciunt quasi nisi maiores.
Quia sint ipsum quos maxime. Assumenda eum sint asperiores accusamus quibusdam voluptas. Itaque ad id ut enim. Dolor nemo illo sint exercitationem corrupti eum. Quas quia possimus et est veritatis.
Dolores id odit nostrum dolore quia ipsa. Iure reprehenderit consequatur quo. Natus est ad soluta. Aut nam repellat in quas.
Incidunt illo eos totam repellendus est. Autem mollitia et corrupti id necessitatibus. Sit minus id voluptatem similique. Aut maiores consequatur in temporibus ut sunt quam. Est voluptas ut odio. Ipsam dolor ut non dolores odio cum adipisci.