Are you religious? If so, when did you start believing? If not, why not?

I grew up in a Christian household. I went to church (Methodist), wore the white robes and lit the candles with the super long fire thingy (acolyte lighting), and said the blessing before eating any meal. I said my prayers before going to sleep every night.

Sometime around middle school is when we stopped going to church every weekend as a family. We had moved houses, so our church was further away. I’d go to FCA on Fridays in middle and high school, but it was primarily for the free Chick-fil-A. I’d listen to the guest speaker and almost always thought (this guy is full of bullshit). Not sure if it was because most of the speakers were Baptist, but I’d say this is the beginning of what turned me off to religion.

I also noticed that a lot of the other kids who went to FCA and said they were Christians were just terrible kids. Lots of the kids had that upper middle class “I’m better than you” attitude, which was funny because my dad made lots more money than most of them. Also, one of the coaches for my sport was also a pastor, and his whole demeanor was a huge turn off for Christianity as well.

I then went to college - I attended a religious institution of a denomination I wasn’t raised in, and frankly it was a heaping pile of bullshit. We had to take religion classes that required us to memorize bible verses, and getting one word wrong from that specific version of the Bible made the whole verse wrong. We had religious congregations that were required to attend daily, and there was punishment for not going.

There were some great people at that college, but the whole forced religion thing turned me off from Christianity even more.

Sometimes I’ll go to the church I went to growing up, but it’s depressing to go to. The majority of the former congregation is either dead or have stopped attending. A good day now might have 20 people, whereas there used to be around 100. The people who went when I was a little kid were amazing people. These were the people who you’d think of when you thing of “southern people of God”. The beautiful thing is we also had a lot of minorities and immigrants. There were a few African families that would come and wear their bright African clothes. Amazing people with huge smiles and even larger laughs.

Since graduating college and becoming an “adult”, I’ve attended a few different churches to meet new people and just see what’s going on. I’ve found at every single church, the whole sermon is almost always centered around forgiveness and how it’s ok to not live righteously.

Not that I haven’t sinned, but I find the majority of modern Christians to not follow the word of God. One of my best friends goes to church every Sunday, yet she supports abortion and even went to a drag show brunch. She’s not dumb and makes good money, but when I asked her how she thinks those things are ok, she said that God forgives and there are bigger things to worry about.

I’d love to hear thoughts from people of all religions, as well as those who aren’t religious.

For example, Isaiah is a user on here we all love, and I think it’s evident from his posts and comments that he’s what a lot of people would consider a “good” person. We also know he’s Catholic and claps baddies. Isaiah, do you just tell in confession that you clapped cheeks, and the pastor or deacon (I’m not that familiar with Catholicism) just says ok?

I wouldn’t say I’m a Christian, and I don’t know if there’s a god. What I do know is that I believe religious values set a good framework to live a life of morality.

This post discusses religion which I believe was a topic that was supposedly banned with the new censoring, but I think Patrick has loosened up on such topics as long as they don’t go off the deep end. Hopefully this stays up.

 

Hey Bro. May I first say that my life was irrepairably damaged by bad Christians. I'm currently a hardcore Catholic but thought Christians were the dumbest fucking people on the planet for about the first 20 years of my life due to some of things that you describe. Nothing has done more damage to Christianity than hypocritical Christians.

That said, one thing that made me come to peace with things and my fellow Christians is realizing that we are all on a path. It's not like you become a Christian and now you're this perfect human being without error and without hypocrisy. We all fail. My question is simply am I a better person this year than I was last year? This decade better than last decade and am I continuing to get better? Remember that even the apostles who directly knew Christ denied him on his way to crucifixtion. No one is perfect and you shouldn't expect them to be so. If you do, they will fail you 100% of the time.

The real question is whether you are improving. Take your friend for example. Is she trying to get closer to God and learn more and become more or has she decided that everything is forgiven and she doesn't need to do anything else? We can be wrong theologically as long as we are trying to get better. Where we truly fail is where we make excuses for doing nothing with our lives and remaining spiritually stuck.

Even today, I disagree a lot with other religious denominations but I don't get upset about it. I just remember that these are our brothers and sisters on the same path. They may be somewhere else on their journey but we are still on the same journey. God bless and hope this helps!!

 

“If it weren’t for Christians, I’d be a Christian.” - Mahatma Gandhi

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Interesting quote but can't that be said of most major religions? Or essentially any group?

It's a generalization of a whole group based on negative outliers. It'd be like saying "I don't want to be a Muslim because all Muslims are terrorists".

 

Legit question that's not a distinction withou a difference. Are you actually asking about religion? Or are you asking about spirituality in general?

Edit: can't help but notice the sheer abundance of Catholics in here. Not to hijack, but anyone else get the feeling that Catholicism is making a major comeback lately? And for the by and by, I'm one of them too.

The poster formerly known as theAudiophile. Just turned up to 11, like the stereo.
 

I think they’re intertwined, and although someone can be spiritual without being religious, spirituality itself is a belief system of sorts. I think my original question could be better phrased as “do you have a belief system you structure your life around”

 
Arroz con Pollo

I think they're intertwined, and although someone can be spiritual without being religious, spirituality itself is a belief system of sorts. I think my original question could be better phrased as "do you have a belief system you structure your life around"

Arroz has opened the door to philosophy, so come on in. I would argue that the idea of a belief system is what religion is. Versus spirituality, which is based on things like faith. IE, "I can make this jump" (figuratively and/or literally). Just simply believing in something greater than yourself.

The poster formerly known as theAudiophile. Just turned up to 11, like the stereo.
 

Legit answer.

No one is too far gone. Priests hear many ugly, horribly, disgusting things in confession. I would bet anything Isaiah says isn’t going to shock them.

I believe in the notion that people are inherently good. I believe in that notion because I choose to believe in that basic goodness of people. I choose to believe that not all sins are committed by bad people. Finally, I try to understand that some very, very good people do some very bad things.

 

As a proud but lapsed Roman Catholic, I found your post very interesting. My estranged uncle fits the description of the bad Christians of whom you speak in ways you cannot imagine. He is a bully with an abrasive, abusive personality, ready to hammer you and anything you say into the ground, all the while portraying himself as a pious individual with more faith than anyone else. My mother has described her elder brother as "the type of person who would cut you off and give you the finger in the church parking lot, just to get a spot in front." He is an ardent supporter of the pre-Vatican II liturgy (the Tridentine Mass in Latin) and each of his six children (five boys, one girl) are named for various popes or saints. Though I have only met him a few times in my life given our estrangement from his side of the family, I can say without a doubt that he is an absolutely horrible person to be around.

Personally, I believe that my own faith was started the very moment that I was baptised. During my childhood, I spent much of my time with my beloved Nana and Auntie (God rest their souls), the devout sister duo that I consider my shining stars of the Catholic faith. But it was after their passings that I became more interested in the faith on my own, with their guidance on earth and from Heaven that inspired me. At this point of my life, and likely until the day of my death, Christ will be the most important person in the world to me. One day, as I change my ways from the lapsed ways of sin that I've committed, I will strive to become a far better person that I am today, tomorrow, or whenever. The desire to change one's ways, coupled with the ability to admit one's problems, are the first steps to becoming a better person. I believe that, if we just begin with these steps, everything can fall into place soon enough.

One of my personal dreams in life, after I have made my money in finance, is to become a diplomatic official accredited to the Holy See. This follows another dream of becoming a knight of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, whose higher ranks have been open to American citizens since the 1990s, so that I can help the poor and the sick of the world through my service.

“Strive for perfection in everything you do. Take the best that exists and make it better. When it does not exist, design it.” -- Sir Frederick Henry Royce, 1st Baronet, Co-Founder of Rolls-Royce Limited.
 

I grew up Catholic. Went to Catholic school through high school, etc. I got away from religion in my 20s (not that anything bad happened or anything, I just didn't have strong faith), found it again when I was at a really low point in life through a divorce. Now I mostly like bible-based churches; I like going to hear a good sermon that gives me brain food for the week. Love listening to Joel Osteen and his great talks. I met him and attended service at his church in Houston and that was great, but I'm not really into praise music. 

I think it's healthy for all of us to have faith and I respect that people can practice it in many ways. I may not attend church all the time but in every city I've lived, I always look for a "prayer spot" where I can go and sit and reflect and talk with God. I also believe in the fact that God sees everything that is coming up for you in life and you have to accept that plan (that's faith). So whenever I'm in a tough spot, I pray and I turn things over to God and accept any result that may come. I've done that twice in my life and it's given me amazing results doing that. 

 

I've had a similar journey - to cut a long story short, was raised protestant/pentecostal, have since become somewhat estranged from my faith now that I'm in my late 20's.

The main items that turned me off:

-Prosperity gospel. I think this is not biblical and theologically contradicts the idea of generosity and humbleness.

-Acceptance of situations because 'God has a plan'. This isn't an excuse to do nothing - you still need to make the most of what you've got, stay hungry, yet stay humble and keep a growth mindset. So many religious people I know use this as a cop out for not improving their lot in life or for enduring shitty situations.

I really enjoy theologically Christianity and think it can be a source of strength and self betterment. However I am disappointed with the modern church and personally struggle to find my faith and really 'believe'.

The main 'religious excersise' I still practise as much as I can is being thankful, grateful, and not taking anything for granted. I take every opportunity I can to acknowledge how fortunate I am to be where I am today - and always try to be better for tomorrow. 

 

I think you just might need to explore other denominations that focus less on prosperity gospel etc. Very little to none of that in Catholicism for example. Also, Catholicism is really the birthplace of theology - you basically can't study it without at least 1,500 years of Catholicism. Might be something worth digging into more.

 

Yes sinning is bad, but I try to focus on the good works I do for others. 
 

-

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

I can never see pictures on the app. One of the worst things about the app. Also still can’t quote messages and it’s been like this for months now

 

1 Peter 4:8

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

I’m not religious, but sometimes wish I was. Its scary as fuck thinking that when we die we cease to exist and knowing that the only certainty in life is death. I acknowledge the fact that we have no idea whats real though.

I grew up in a no bullshit household and was raised to formulate my own opinions. We were never brought to church or did any of that stuff. I’ve just always figured that if I cant prove it, I cant fully have faith in it I guess.

 
MrPermaBear

I'm not religious, but sometimes wish I was. Its scary as fuck thinking that when we die we cease to exist and knowing that the only certainty in life is death. I acknowledge the fact that we have no idea whats real though.

I grew up in a no bullshit household and was raised to formulate my own opinions. We were never brought to church or did any of that stuff. I've just always figured that if I cant prove it, I cant fully have faith in it I guess.

“Life is important for it contains the seed of eternity.” - St. Francis de Sales

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 
MrPermaBear

I'm not religious, but sometimes wish I was. Its scary as fuck thinking that when we die we cease to exist 

Nirvana - Lake of Fire 


"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 
MrPermaBear

I grew up in a no bullshit household and was raised to formulate my own opinions. We were never brought to church or did any of that stuff. I've just always figured that if I cant prove it, I cant fully have faith in it I guess.

Were you brought up in a household where you formulate your own opinions though?

Maybe, if you went to church and then your family told you to believe whatever you want, you could say that. But it kind of seems like they held you back from hearing certain opinions and were not allowed to even peripherally experience religions which billions around the globe get to.

 

>I've just always figured that if I cant prove it, I cant fully have faith in it I guess.

Yeah, I have struggled with this a lot, and still do. In the end, it is called faith because it concerns aspects of reality ultimately not graspable by our human mind. However, there are several very good arguments for setting aside these doubts. Some are more intellectual in nature, as the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, others more existentialist, like the writings of Sören Kierkegaard. In the end it all comes to power - can you overpower your arrogance for your intellect, your anxiety over the nature of reality, and your fear of the Nothing? Can you fill your heart with love? And I think then, believing will come easy to you - and to all of us.

...and the Truth shall set you free
 

I went to Catholic school growing up, but after college my faith was really weak in my early to mid 20s. Then I went through a series of events that caused me to take a deep look at the Catholic faith and I returned like the prodigal son. I even spent a year with a Catholic community and they invited me to join permanently for life, but I didn’t feel called to live there forever. 

I believe the Catholic faith is the fullness of the truth. There is deep history and beautiful art in nearly every church, especially in Europe. If you ever have general questions about the faith, I suggest you go on Catholic Answers as they have solid apologists there.

AMDG

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 
Most Helpful

I’ve never mentioned this on WSO before, but I was considering becoming a priest for years. I interviewed with many different parts of the church including a community in Canada, the Australian Jesuits, the Irish Jesuits, Carmelites in DC, EWTN Franciscans in Alabama, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, and the Pauline Fathers (Polish).

I went through extensive interviews and had to take IQ tests, psych tests, and also had to talk about nearly every sexual act I’ve ever done. Lots of scantron and computer personality tests. The closest group I almost joined were the Franciscans at EWTN. It wasn’t because I wanted to be on TV or anything, but really got along with the brothers there and they had a pool to swim in and a nice gym, heavy bag, full basketball court, and really good food and a chef.

Overall I’m happy to be a lay person now and feel very blessed and was able to meet with many leaders in the church. I’m excited for the Catholic sacrament of marriage. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎

I went through extensive interviews and had to take.... psych tests, and also had to talk about nearly every sexual act I've ever done"

Well, we know where things went wrong...... Jokes aside that's pretty awesome. Would you ever think about becoming a deacon?

 
NoEquityResearch
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎

I went through extensive interviews and had to take.... psych tests, and also had to talk about nearly every sexual act I've ever done"

Well, we know where things went wrong...... Jokes aside that's pretty awesome. Would you ever think about becoming a deacon?

Yeah I have thought about becoming a deacon after marriage. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Aside from the 5 years I dedicated to studying religion and becoming semi religious for that period, I would have to say no. I was going to do a line by line rationale for why I am not religious but all of it can be summed up in the following way:  I have had much better experiences with non religious people compared to religious people.  As a result, I feel more comfortable with a non religious crowd. Given that I rep the liberal wing of WSO, these views should not be a surprise to anyone 

 
financeabc

 I have had much better experiences with non religious people compared to religious people.  As a result, I feel more comfortable with a non religious crowd. Given that I rep the liberal wing of WSO, these views should not be a surprise to anyone 

This could be a whole other conversation of its own. The OP mostly centers on hypocritical Christians which are plentiful but hypocrisy among liberals, I mean wow. Let's just mention Hollywood as a start. And how about "virtue signaling" which has become almost synonmous with the modern Left. Some of the hypocrisy in Hollywood and among liberal leaders would make Joel Olsteen blush.

 
NoEquityResearch
financeabc

 I have had much better experiences with non religious people compared to religious people.  As a result, I feel more comfortable with a non religious crowd. Given that I rep the liberal wing of WSO, these views should not be a surprise to anyone 

This could be a whole other conversation of its own. The OP mostly centers on hypocritical Christians which are plentiful but hypocrisy among liberals, I mean wow. Let's just mention Hollywood as a start. And how about "virtue signaling" which has become almost synonmous with the modern Left. Some of the hypocrisy in Hollywood and among liberal leaders would make Joel Olsteen blush.

Tbh, I did not even read the topic other than the title to it.  I should have read it because it is kind of interesting.  I had similar experiences as a kid.  I did not want to write about it initially because I felt people would think I am bashing Christians. The Christian school kids I grew up were pretty wild and a lot of them were bullies.  I kind of doubt that their personalities were the result of being raised Christian. Their bad behavior was more likely the result of the majority of them being under educated and ignorant.  I did not know many religious Jews until I got older and can tell you that non religious Jews have almost nothing in common with religious Jews.  These interactions with religious people made me become much less interested in religion. 

Regarding virtue signaling, liberal people do not have a monopoly on it.  Plenty of Christian people wear visible crosses and plenty of religious Jews wear visible Jewish identifiers as well. To me, this is an extreme form of virtue signaling because they are doing it all day. 

 

I would define myself as nominally religious, although my faith waivers quite a bit. There was definitely a period in life where I was significantly more religous than I am now, and also periods where I entertained atheism, so I've been far from stable minded or consistent on this.

Something that I've really struggled with as of late is how many churches are turning into businesses. You slightly touch on this when you wrote

Since graduating college and becoming an "adult", I've attended a few different churches to meet new people and just see what's going on. I've found at every single church, the whole sermon is almost always centered around forgiveness and how it's ok to not live righteously.

The fact is there seem to be a lot more pastors that are interesting in running a church like a business, rather than having a calling to preach firm, no matter the outcome. My pastor growing up (who is now dead), used to tell numerous stories in sermons about how people got angry with him and would leave the church. He almost said it in a joking manner, and never saw the person who was unable to handle his preaching as $$$ that he could have had, had he watered his preaching down. I didn't even realize how much of a true man he was until years after his death, but now I've come to appreciate him even more. However, many preachers do see that individual leaving as extra money that would come to the church and work it's way into that individual's salary.

So, now church sermons have become a matter of maximizing the number of attendees in a congregation, by making messages as watered down and accepting as possible, while just including a little flavor of God and some verses here and there to still make it feel like a church service. Whether you and I like it or not, forgiveness and making feel people good about themselves sells much better than telling people they are wrong and need to repent and change. 

As my professional focus has shifted into finance, I've started to pay a lot more attention to how preachers preach about donations and giving back to the church. And that too has sickened me. I see a lot of preachers using appeal to emotion and inaccurate characterizations. Here are some examples:

"God has done so much for you, shouldn't you just give a small fraction back to him?"

"God always rewards those who give back to him, step out by faith even if you don't have the money."

"When you are giving, think about the fact that Jesus died on the cross and has made you a new person" (variant of 1)

They always seem to phrase donations (or tithing) as "giving to God", "paying back to Jesus", etc. to extract as much money as possible. This is not accidental as I see this time and time again. They are using an appeal to emotion and characterizing the donations as "going to God or Jesus" when in reality it's going to the church treasury and used to pay the bills and salary for the staff including the pastor. But see saying something such as "Give what you feel comfortable and are able to give so we can keep the lights running" invokes a logical response where the individual determines a) whether they are financially comfortable to give and b) how much do they feel is an adequate amount to help with electricity/mortgage. I think it's safe to say that the amount donated with the combination of a) and b) while the practical and correct amount for the giver, is going to be lower if not significantly lower than what someone can get using the fake emotional appeals above. 

Finding churches where the pastor doesn't run it like a business is getting harder to do, but I'd encourage you to branch out of the popular churches in the white collar neighborhoods of your city, and try looking for smaller sized churches similar to your home church. Those aren't all good either, but I'm sure with some looking you should be able to find something. Even if you aren't religious anymore, I think it's worth a shot purely for the social aspects, and the moral guidance that you mention (which I too think is valuable even if my faith falters from time to time). 

Array
 
IncomingIBDreject

Something that I've really struggled with as of late is how many churches are turning into businesses.

Could always become a plumber and find literal piles of cash in the walls. Synergies my dude! But seriously I totally get your point and agree. Then there's that other d-bag that claimed he needed tithing to buy a newer private jet "to spread the gospel"? I know of a couple of mega-churches that deservedly earned mocking nicknames like "Six Flags Over Jesus" because of that behavior.

The poster formerly known as theAudiophile. Just turned up to 11, like the stereo.
 

Can't quote, but the priest at my church has often said he doesn't care about money and will only preach the truth we need to hear. Ironically, his congregation has grown as people are tired of lukewarm Catholicism. Fr. Altman has given him a nod on one occasion as a church militant fighting for the good word.

 

God does forgive, but in order to need forgiveness, you have to have transgressed.  People who claim to be Christians and live lives that are knowingly transgressing against God, because they know he'll forgive them, are abusing the nature of God's forgiveness, aren't interested in living according to God's word, and it's shocking to me that someone who believes in an all-powerful God would intentionally live lives transgressing about him. 

To answer the original question, I do believe in God and have since I was old enough to understand the concept of a god.  I firmly believe that human beings have a deep intuition that there is a god, which doesn't have to be the Christian God.  Throughout all of human history, societies have believed in god or gods of one form or another.  The existence of a god has been the number one question for humanity since the dawn of time.  Aristotle, the greatest mind in the history of the world, even came to the conclusion that there must be an unmoved mover for the world to make sense.  I believe that an intuition, that nearly all people have had since the dawn of time, must be directionally correct.  Before I understood any of that; however, I personally had a deep and abiding intuition that there must be a god - even when I had no concept or beliefs about the nature of god and his involvement in human affairs.  I don't know there's a god, just like atheists don't know there isn't a god; however, I don't believe that atheists are instilled with an intuition that there is a god...they develop their disbelief through tragedy, hard times in their lives, and lack of tangible evidence.  However, I'm a strong believer in deep-rooted intuition and even when I'd like there not to be a god, or am confounded/angered at his inactions, that intuition has never gone away

I come from down in the valley, where mister when you're young, they bring you up to do like your daddy done
 

Yes, I am. I was raised in the Catholic Church, the whole package as well, First Communion, altar boy service, Confirmation, etc. However, that never stopped me from sinning, and I have only very recently started to come back to church more and more. It's been a bit of a process and I'd put most of the thanks on the life-changing experience of interpersonal, burning love which I before only knew more abstractly from my family and nature (we Germans do love our forests). Also, my life is now a bit more "settled" and I can incorporate the walk to church more easily into my life. I'd also say reading Chesterton and CS Lewis helped a lot, as well as understanding how Catholicism is neither sour nor cold, but in practice extremely life-affirming and human-centered. Again, this is a life-long work, but I now understand that not only it will improve my chances of seeing the Eternal Beauty, but also make me into a more harmonious and fully realized human being.

...and the Truth shall set you free
 

Life is hard, man. Faith is hard. Setting your eyes away from the world is hard. And I consider myself lucky that I had all of these things early on, the Church, my very faithful mother, etc. But actually living it, not just saying the words, really living it every day, that's the hard part. And it's a journey that never stops, not until the coffin is nailed shut. 

...and the Truth shall set you free
 

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16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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redever
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success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”