The title pretty much says it all. Curious who here will be taking a COVID vaccine when distributed and who won't be.
Personally, I am quite a good bit skeptical at the safety of putting something into my body of which the long-term potential effects are largely unknown, and I know there are many others who feel this way. That said, I am not very educated on the science behind vaccine development and how vaccines actually work in the body. I would love to hear the opinions of any healthcare analysts or professionals on this board.
Prolly not yet. I’m 19 so the risk/reward doesn’t seem great. At the same time, we don’t know the long term effects of COVID either, so I’ll probably take it in a year or two once the vaccine seems pretty safe.
Colleges might start mandating it for students though
For most people, it will not be as simple as "do you want to take the vaccine?". Likely all prominent colleges and employers will require it in 2021, so not sure it's even worth discussing. That being said, as a young healthy person I will gladly take the vaccine as early as possible. In order to get herd immunity, we need widespread inoculation - those with certain underlying health conditions may be excluded so others need to step up
I'm not saying it's riskless but I would 100% take a small risk if it means helping save lives and get things back to normal
I agree entirely. It’s not riskless but also worth considering the potential consequences (esp long-term) of actually contracting COVID. I think the risk of long-term complications of the vaccine is significantly lower than the risk of long term effects of COVID.
This is likely the correct take. If you want to get back into society in 2021 you will probably have to get a vaccine; otherwise, you'll probably be waiting in your apartment until 2022 to re-enter society.
By the time I have access to the vaccine over 10MM people will have taken it and that would be a sufficient sample size for me.
The main benefit for getting it would be for society and normalcy.
Yes. I am not an anti-vaxxer.
As woke as you may be, I feel like this is a bit different. Being skeptical of and potentially not taking a covid vaccine is far from the same as refusing to take, say, a Polio vaccine. I am no scientist, but a covid vaccine now seems rushed, and the side effects and long term implications may not be understood. Like a lot of people have stated here, the risk to reward for a younger person doesn’t really seem worth it in my opinion seeing as how the virus is not likely to do much to us anyway.
"I'm not scientist, but a covid vaccine seems rushed" is classic anti-intellectualism. You don't really know if it is rushed or not, but it seems that way.
Miss me with the "woke" nonsense too. Go make a caricature of someone else.
Yeah you don’t know anything about the science or the process, so who are you to say that this was rushed?
The technology has been in the making for a very long time and they extrapolated existing research on SARS-cov-1 (SARS back in 2003, remember that?) and MERS vaccines to develop the SARS-cov-2 vaccine. Bill Gates has been pushing vaccine development issues for YEARS and started funding mRNA vaccine platforms back in 2015.
Vaccine development is slow af because, sadly to say, no one really gives a fuck about infectious diseases going down in the non-Western world. There’s no jackpot to be had for developing a vaccine that would help poor people or small subsets of the global population. There is a lot of money and glory at stake with Covid 19, hence them actually putting effort and care into developing a vaccine for it
If you believe that this was actually built from scratch and rushed out over the course of a few months, you are an idiot.
Here's my question....is it really rushed? Was talking to a friend who mentioned that the Ebola vaccine took 5 years and this one is less than a year. True, but the minds of 7 billion weren't working on the ebola vaccine.
Of course you had to put the "I am not an anti-vaxxer" statement in there - couldn't just say "yes". Your blind assertion of far-left ideology is anti-intellectualism at its finest. Mindlessly following a progressive agenda does not make you "intellectual". In fact quite the opposite when you can't formulate your own ideas and opinions. There has been no vaccine approved by the CDC yet, rather large amounts of media conjecture and hype. You really don't know if the vaccine is ready or safe yet, but it seems that way. Keep reading the news, Champ.
This shit, I swear.
Again, go make a caricature of someone else.
It's CRE what do you expect
I’m not trying to be rude but I don’t understand how this is even a point of contention. We have been to hell and back as a society, 240k+ people dead, economy to its knees, poverty...this was the end goal, the vaccine.
If you are planning on not taking it and you: do coke or any other drugs, supplements not approved by FDA (which are all of them), smoke cigarettes, etc...you are a total idiot, unequivocally you are an idiot. Look into the science behind the Moderna vaccine, they are not injecting you with anything sinister.
When the vaccine becomes generally available it’s going to be a travesty if we balk getting back to normal because not enough people have been inoculated or something. Let’s move on with life already.
It's a point of contention because as I alluded to, the long-term side effects are completely unknown. We know what the short-term side effects can be, but whether there are negative long-term impacts remain to be seen. It should be the choice of the individual, not governments or the state, to take the vaccine, based on whether they feel comfortable or uncomfortable. I don't think the government should be in the business of telling me to put something in my body (especially when they tell me there are other substances I can't). I am not an anti-vaxxer by any means; but based on what (admittedly little) I learned about the drug discovery process from the biotech deals I worked on in IB, the Covid vaccine seems to have undergone quite a cavalier process. Maybe I am wrong and based on how this MRNA vaccine tech works maybe there are minimal/no long-term effects - that is why I asked for the opinions of healthcare analysts and professionals who are more knowledgable about this stuff than you or I...
This the wrong board for that then ... go post on a medical or doctor board if you want any actually qualified opinions
The national government is not going to be mandating vaccines. But your employer and colleges probably will.
What I am trying to understand is: "that is why I asked for the opinions of healthcare analysts and professionals who are more knowledgable about this stuff than you or I..."
What HC analyst who spends their time spreading comps and googling biotech terms is going to know more than the FDA and all of the scientists involved in the development of these drugs? We are lucky enough to have the world's brightest minds in science and medicine working on this stuff. By the logic of not knowing long term side effects then society will not be able to be sufficiently inoculated until what, 20 years?
At the rate of ~30mm per month in Jan or so I think we will have data that is beyond plentiful. What are the long term side effects of COVID? I would assume more harmful than MRNA.
Welcome to Wall Street Oasis.
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Not every thread needs to be a political battle. Go find a better outlet for your energy.
The majority of people who don't want to take (because they are younger and don't fear the disease) won't even have access to it in the first batch, so it doesnt even matter that much. The first batch will go to healthcare workers and the elderly, and then after there is evidence of the vaccine being widely regarded as safe, young people won't be hesitant to take it.
Yes.
Yes absolutely. You are a fool or just trying to pretend you’re smart by being skeptical if you wouldn’t take it.
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It is "rushed" because America removed all the BS government bureaucracy associated with normally releasing a vaccine. It has the same amount of time in clinical trials.
Assuming you are young and healthy, you likely will not have the ability to take the vaccine until it has been given to other groups first. My doctor said he expects hospital workers to receive it first, other medical workers and high risk groups to receive it second, and others to receive it after. I can see being a bit skeptical, but by the time you can take the vaccine millions of others will already have, so all adverse effects should be known.
99.999% of the population has no understanding of the science behind the vaccine, so anyone who spends 10 minutes on google searching could end up either further for or against their initial convictions, whatever they are
Whether I take it will likely depend on if it's absolutely required for travel/concerts/work/etc. If it is, then I won't have much choice
I don't think it will be "required" by XYZ, but I mean look at the difference here. With MRNA specifically things are pretty controlled, by the time it is available to us we will have 10s of millions of data points, possibly 100s. I know that the likelihood of becoming seriously ill from COVID if you are young/healthy is low, but I think that is a way less controlled bet than taking a vaccine that has been through the entire regulatory process along with that many data points. To each their own though.
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It's constitutional for the government to take all of our kitchen knives away and make us wear bubble wrap all day because a bunch of deluded retards have anxiety about nothing
Underrated comment
quite a few people in my family have been vaccinated and nobody has reported any issues; therefore, yes, I will be taking it once the vaccine becomes available. This will take a while for my group since I am under 40 years old and have (luckily) no underlying health conditions.
Mr. President and his top advisors basically said we should infect ourselves to get herd immunity, so I will take no chances with this vaccine and instead, I will go out there and get myself infected. MAGA!!!
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Will probably wait a couple of months to get vaccinated.
I’m all in favor of vaccines (and generally regard anti vaxers as lunatics), but don’t want to put my convictions and trust in science over my instinct that tells me to wait and see a little bit - at least until I see several million people getting vaccinated and not developing any health issues over a prudent period of time.
Have several friends that
There is a misconception going around...you need to wait a few months anyway as you are likely not in the group the vaccine will be available to during this and next month. At that point tens of millions of people would have been vaccinated. There is much less of an issue here than people think.
The fact that these are the first successful mRNA vaccines ever (Pfizer and Moderna) gives me pause. I have no problem taking the Oxford vaccine however which relies on drug technology that has been well documented.
I've never been a first adopter, I'll wait for a later revision of the vaccine. Even if I wanted it right away, I wouldn't be able to get one.
It’s not really rushed, idk why everyone keeps saying this. The basic research for these vaccines was done back in 2003 with efforts to create a sars 1 vaccine. This is when the “spike protein” was identified as a way of stopping a coronavirus from entering cells. Research this more if you are interested in getting a more detailed understanding.
Would everyone feel better if we said this was 17 years in the making?
And when was the last time we threw this much WORLDWIDE effort, $, time, etc. into a vaccine for a single issue? It's not like it's one random pharma company coming outta nowhere, it's dozens of different companies putting ALL their time and effort into this issue. It doesn't surprise me at all that we have a vaccine, and a badass one at that, this quick.
Yeah exactly. When everyone in the world is trying to solve this problem good things happen.
The rapid spread of the virus also “helped” as the vaccine trials reached statistically significant incidence rates in a few months.
it is rushed as the reason vaccines take so long is because of the rigorous safety testing required rather than researching or creating the vaccine. how much money is put into creating this vaccine is irrelevant. injecting a shitpile of money into a vaccine isn't going to make time move faster
Few points here:
1. The people in this thread gloating that they aren't anti-vaxers... just stop. No one asked you. You knowing that 1+1=2 (aka taking an approved vaccine would be safe) is not impressive. You're in the majority.
2. While the federal govt likely won't mandate people take the vaccines, it'll likely be mandated by certain portions of the private sector. Think a concert for example or maybe a business convention. Those very last areas where they simply won't happen without a vaccine... will clearly require a vaccine. Now would a local club or bar? Probably not -- I don't see them having the infrastructure to do this, but ticketmaster?... i can see them doing this initially in a despserate effort to get govt approval to throw concerts .... aka generate revenue once more
3. I know not every drinks alcohol or smokes or texts while driving .... or even idk, eats fast food on a regular, but if you do ANY of these things. You know for a fact the science is well-established those things will lead to both short term (in the case of fuckin dying while texting + driving on highway) and of course longer term health impacts. If you're pounding hard liquor on weekends, you shouldn't need to be worrying about a vaccine. You're already fucking your body. we know that
// end rant.
Also, if you're a Cowboys fan, the long-term health impacts of what's occurred this season have already set in.
Everyone knows that prolonged adderall use will wreck you yet many of the same analysts who take 3 days’ worth of doses in a 24 hour period and probably snort or parachute it for fun on the weekends are going to vehemently protest vaccination because they are young and invincible. Go figure.
Absolutely - not.
typical retard response from someone who can't think for themselves ^^^
Question: Is a cardiologists opinion on this vaccine valid?
100% the second it’s available. Between the two it’s been tested on almost 70k people. If it kills me, it must be my time. I don’t get why people are scared of it.
Because humans are inherently selfish, some confoundingly so. This pandemic has revealed a whole lot about people and much of it is honestly disheartening
No
I've already had covid so jokes on you guys im not taking it
Yeah and then maybe I can finally train Muay Thai again.
The vaccine was obviously rushed. Usually a vaccine would take years to develop.
Despite that, some of you guys will take it even though the chances of you dying is nearly zero.
That's right listen blindly to the fake scientist, media and politicians just like you do everything your MD tells you to do without question.
Keep supporting big pharma despite being Liberals.
This is why I don't buy cars anymore. The Model A took 8 years to develop (after the Model T), and then they completely rushed the Model B out in 2 years!!! They're telling me that cars today take (sometimes) less than a year - I definitely don't trust those.
Please spend even three minutes to look up the purpose of vaccination efforts. They are not designed to protect the healthy or lower risk who don’t need protecting.
You get the vaccine because you give a shit about people who are not yourself. Not everything revolves around you, you goddamn donkey
Looks like the media brainwashed you into thinking you're a hero and a selfless person if you take the vaccine, support lockdowns and stay home all day.
You ain't a hero; you ain't virtuous; you ain't pro-science.
You're just good at doing what other people tell you to do.
Yeah that's right, keep stroking your ego and validating yourself.
In your quest to be a good person, you unfortunately contributed to the destruction of our freedoms and liberty.
Hell no. Only about a third of drugs progress from phase 2 clinical trials to phase 3. A proper phase 2 trial generally takes around two years to complete, and y’all can do the math on that one.
This means that you’re taking a vaccine that likely wouldn’t have been approved in the first place. I don’t have any industry research on vaccines vs. treatments etc. and phase 2 success rates, but anything this politicized is something to be concerned about. I’ll take my chances with the disease that’s about as deadly as the flu. At least, that’s what the CDC was estimating before they took mortality estimates offline since they showed that the number of deaths we’ve had in this country couldn’t be accurate versus the number of estimated cases we had.
While I’m sure these types of vaccines are safer than the average drug, I’ve already had covid (and was asymptomatic, so it was virtually impossible for me to spread it anyway). Therefore, I don’t see a positive risk/reward ratio.
also I’ll do everything in my power to try and dodge my employer from forcing me to get it, but if I have to bite the poison bullet then I guess it is what it is.
Asymtomatic also spreads
Yeah I should probably edit that out now that I looked it up again. Shit changes every couple days. Wouldn’t be surprised if it changes. Thanks.
If you already had covid and still have antibodies, wouldn't that just render getting the vaccine moot?
Anti bodies aren't permanent but your immune systems "pockets" mRNA material into memory cells than can quickly reproduce them if needed. Actually, I had a recent antibody test and do not have the antibodies. Kinda interesting!
Isn't a new flu vaccine developed each year?
Whatever it takes to get back to normality. I'm sick of this shit.
Seems like quite a few people on this thread really enjoy the "new normal". I don't understand how,
I plan on taking the vaccine as soon as it’s made available to me. I’m curious how many people (whether they plan on getting vaccinated or not) have taken even 10 minutes to read & understand how these vaccines were able to be developed so fast. The below article (while published during the summer) gives a good overview of these factors - the nature of the disease itself (an acute coronavirus infection), new technology, but importantly money and less regulatory red tape.
Per the article, vaccine trials are typically slow to progress because companies want to see candidates successfully pass through each phase before sinking funding into the next one... COVID vaccine research & development has basically been backstopped with funding by governments until they find a viable cure or vaccine. Additionally, regulatory bodies have removed much of the red tape associated with trials and approvals. I’m never one to blindly trust government, but think about how catastrophic it would be if government officials and big pharma companies approved a vaccine they didn’t truly think was safe to be distributed en masse to the entire world - I don’t believe that is in their or civilians’ best interests long term. For me, the decision is easy - finding a vaccine has been the primary focus of top scientists and big pharma titans for almost a year, funding/resources have been nearly infinite, and there is a global incentive to get it done right so society can go back to normal and the economy can stabilize. I can understand people’s hesitations around lack of studies re: long-term effects, but I’m willing to take my chances given the aforementioned + potential long-term negative effects from actually getting infected with COVID itself.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/30/a-huge-experiment-how-the-world-mad…
That "red tape" your talking about is what prevents drugs with unacceptable side effects from making it through phase II trials
Genuinely asking/interested to learn, do you have any sources to support this? That would have been my first inclination too, but everything I’ve read has said something along the lines of the following (noting this is about the Oxford vaccine but have seen similar points for Pfizer/Moderna vaccines too): “Dr Mark Toshner, who has been involved in the trials at sites in Cambridge, said the idea that it took 10 years to trial a vaccine was misleading. He told the BBC: "Most of the time, it's a lot of nothing." He describes it as a process of writing grant applications, having them rejected, writing them again, getting approval to do the trial, negotiating with manufacturers, and trying to recruit enough people to take part. It can take years to get from one phase to the next. “The process is long, not because it needs to be and not because it's safe, but because of the real world," Dr Toshner said.” https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55041371
Gonna wait for the J&J not taking the mRNA one - I'd rather continue to socially distance than try a new technology that hasn't been tested for long term side effects. This is the personal advice I've received from subject level experts in my personal network that are at high levels in biotech.
Go take biology 1 before u spout that nonsense. Viruses aren't alive buddy boy
+
a bit of background. the fastest vaccine ever produced was the mumps vaccine, which took about four years. why it takes so long is because of the testing required, which requires TIME (which no amount of resource can slow nor fasten). obviously, this is for the reason being you are injecting your body with stuff that can cause any random adverse effect which may only be identified through TESTING (ie. time).
now, the Pfizer vaccine is a mRNA vaccine– which has never even in history been used on humans or even tested. amalgamate that with WHY vaccines take so long (testing=time), the obvious route is to test it even MORE than the traditional way of creating vaccines because... we literally dont know shit. it is brand new. Pfizer themselves have stated that the current trials are not designed to detect a reduction in any serious outcome such as hospital admissions, intensive care use or death. so. ...
the Oxford vaccine is more traditional, but again there is the issue of testing=time.
so, in my and other people I have discussed with who happen to be specialists in the field, yes, the vaccine is rushed.
you may say yes but unknown long term effects of covid etc etc but... but....
1. we dont know anything about COVID (clear exaggeration but u know what I mean) so da fuq do we know how to vaccinate it.
2. COVID strains and the biological cellular mutation structure is still changing so by the time the vaccine is produced the virus it treats may not be the original virus it was
3. we dont know all adverse effects. need testing=time. may be worse than contracting covid.
omg and please stop comparing oranges to apples. a vaccine is NOT like drinking alcohol or snorting coke. and to all the people shitting my comment– comment with logical arguments against my post or fuck off
Ladies and gentleman, this entire comment came from a man who thinks that the world of life sciences believes viruses are alive.
Welcome to WSO.
no.
a bit of background. the fastest vaccine ever produced was the mumps vaccine, which took about four years. why it takes so long is because of the testing required, which requires TIME (which no amount of resource can slow nor fasten). obviously, this is for the reason being you are injecting your body with stuff that can cause any random adverse effect which may only be identified through TESTING (ie. time).
now, the Pfizer vaccine is a mRNA vaccine– which has never even in history been used on humans or even tested. amalgamate that with WHY vaccines take so long (testing=time), the obvious route is to test it even MORE than the traditional way of creating vaccines because... we literally dont know shit. it is brand new. Pfizer themselves have stated that the current trials are not designed to detect a reduction in any serious outcome such as hospital admissions, intensive care use or death. so. ...
the Oxford vaccine is more traditional, but again there is the issue of testing=time.
so, in my and other people I have discussed with who happen to be specialists in the field, yes, the vaccine is rushed.
you may say yes but unknown long term effects of covid etc etc but... but....
1. we dont know anything about COVID (clear exaggeration but u know what I mean) so da fuq do we know how to vaccinate it.
2. COVID strains and the biological cellular mutation structure is still changing so by the time the vaccine is produced the shit it treats may not be the original shit it was
3. we dont know all adverse effects. need testing=time. may be worse than contracting covid.
I WILL NOT TAKE ANYTHING.
Not even a bump of coke if I offered it to you for free?
I am in a clinical trial for one of the vaccines, so next month I will either get a vaccine or a placebo.
no
TBH, I would, but I'm not sure I'm ready to come back to wearing suits and attending inperson meetings again. I've really enjoyed this whole work from home model. Can we open up the bars, restaurants, and shops without all coming back to the office?
Why are you getting MS for this?
nah I have antibodies for the short term
I don't need to read Robert Gordon - the entirety of America's productivity slowdown is here in this thread....
Man this thread got angry and political real quick. It's probably healthy to have a little skepticism about a vaccine that was developed so quickly but I think on a whole everyone wants this thing to work. I think most people just recognize that new stuff usually has unforeseen errors in it whether that be PS5s, Teslas, wind turbines, or vaccines. Everyone wants to be on the cutting edge but no one wants to be serial #1.
Right, the thing is we have a really strong understanding of computers and cars. We invented and designed them, after all. Yet we STILL screw them up. How is it not in the realm of possibility for us to mess up a vaccine that uses tech we've never gotten right before?
I work with some pretty smart people (about half of them have PhDs in math / physics from top schools) to build ML-related software and when we're under pressure to do things really fast, we make mistakes. Even with fairly extensive QA and non-prod testing environments, we get it wrong sometimes. This is with a tightly controlled environment that we fucking built. So do I think the vaccine will work? Mostly yes and I'll definitely get it when I'm allowed to. Do I want to be the first? No fucking way. I'm also a little concerned about dosing all of our healthcare workers first, but maybe because they know a lot more about this stuff they're fine with it.
Given I'm posting anonymously my selfish view (ie internet alias, not the anonymous moniker wso provides) is that I just want the vaccine to be taken by most of society so that we can return to the level of normalcy we've been used to. The gov't, both state and fed, will feel much more lenient in opening / keeping open businesses and generally not wrecking everyone's lives via limited capacity or total stay-at-home. Also super excited not to wear a mask out
Pew only had 51% of Americans saying they would take a vaccine back in September. That has climbed to 60% but it's not a fringe view. 62% of Americans still feel uncomfortable at being among the first to take the vaccine.
Skepticism about these vaccines isn't limited to your typical anti-vaxxer squad. Things like the CDC flip-flopping about masks... the way research studies on HCQ and remdesivir seemed to be strategically published, retracted, corrected... insiders at Pfizer and investors in the Moderna vaccine selling the news on their results... is it really that hard to blame people for their skepticism? I for one, am a lot more comfortable with the idea behind the J&J vaccine, at least until we have some more data.
The whole "I trust the science" line is preposterous. The science on covid has been changing at warp speed over the course of the year, and much of public officials' dilemmas were more about risk management than anything else. Did Belgians do so poorly with Covid because they didn't trust the science? Was the Swedes decision anti-science or just a different tactic (a stupid one imo fwiw)? Yes, the outgoing administration fanned the flames of some absurd ignorance, but saying "I trust the science" is not a solution in of itself.
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