DeSantis or Biden?
Say if the 2024 Presidential Election came down to Biden and DeSantis. Who would you pick?
What would be your reasons?
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I'm biased since I'm a conservative.
Voted Trump twice but will not vote for him again under any circumstance. I support DeSantis 100% in 2024 and will max out my personal donation to him and do whatever I can to help.
DeSantis has the qualities I'm looking for: highly intelligent, knowledgeable, ideologically conservative, savvy, disciplined, articulate. Unlike Trump, he will make the right hires and leverage power effectively to execute his vision.
I think that supporting free speech and expression is critical, which disqualifies DeSantis in my eyes. It's okay to disagree with other people's perspectives on things like sexuality, gender, and race, but his approach is to make any discussions or ideas he doesn't like outright illegal. I think he's a wannabe-tyrant who doesn't have any respect for people's rights and prefers to pass policies intended to upset people he (and his base) disagrees with, vs focusing on policies that he thinks will make the world better
I don't think Biden is exciting to anybody, and I don't think his administration is making particularly good decisions (e.g. student loan forgiveness, parts of the infrastructure bill), but if anything the biggest criticism somebody could give him is he doesn't get very much done, which I'm okay with from a president
I'd be really excited at the prospect of a Romney-esque republican candidate, but unfortunately after Trump I think the party is veering strongly away from the ideals of small government and sound economic policies into a party that focuses on bullying and anti-woke gotchas
I would not consider that an issue of free speech because what we're seeing with the cultural marxist CRT takeover now is not organic, but a well organized cultural agenda with many players involved, endorsed by the government, to promote degenerate values and pervert society to destroy the social fabric of the USA. Our own government is helping this through funding programs/curriculums and laws. DeSantis is suffocating their agenda by not complying with their demands.
I feel like 'cultural marxist CRT takeover' is a boogeyman that doesn't really exist or is overstated. I coach high school debate and feel that I have an above-average pulse on what high schoolers are learning in school (to clarify I'm helping out with afterschool activities, not a teacher / school employee), and it seems like history classes etc are mostly the same boring stuff they've always been
I also don't see how ideas being pushed by people with agendas makes them fall outside the protections of free speech
Idk man I feel like cultural marxists are overstated. Like I kept hearing how academia was super far left, but then I went to college and none of my professors were that political and the vast majority of students were centre in their political beliefs.
Watching CRT cause people to have a mental breakdown has been interesting. I was in college before the term became super politicized and it was just seen as a way to think about things a bit deeper.
It's so much more than that though. He's pushing through a defamation bill that would radically lower the bar for suing for defamation because he thinks the press is too liberal and needs to get sued more. The FL state legislature is literally saying it's intended to be in direct conflict with the Supreme Court's 60 years of case law on defamation.
The law would reduce the standard of "actual malice" to include allegations that are "inherently improbable", which is absurd, who is to judge whether something is inherently improbable or not? People do things all the time that seem unlikely, that's how humans work. If everyone operated as "probable" then there wouldn't be any malfeasance but we all know that's not the case.
It also says that any anonymous source is assumed to be false. That's so insane and rips away one of the fundamental bases of journalism. Accusing someone of discrimination is acceptable basis to be sued, and it applies to not just the press, but also any text posted on the internet.
That's an insane attack on free speech, and clearly a targeted attempt to shut up his critics. I hope if the law passes people just use it to sue his team non-stop since they'll be just as likely to violate any of those terms as anyone else.
That is a complete mischaracterization of what DeSantis did and a misunderstanding of the scope of government.
Let's take the "don't say gay" bill for instance. Nowhere in that bill does it mention that you can't say "gay." That is a total misnomer. It simply prohibits the teaching of sex ed to those below 3rd grade, something most reasonable people support. Also, the AP African American studies controversy. DeSantis did not oppose the teaching of black american history; rather, his objection was that the course deliberately injected non-historical teachings such as reparations, BLM, queer theory.
Public schools are taxpayer funded, and as such, the state legislature & governor (who were elected by the people) have the right to create laws governing school curriculum. Just as Florida can do this, a blue state such as California is free to choose its own path. To say that DeSantis is "suppressing" free speech is inaccurate.
Of course, there are plenty of valid critiques of DeSantis if you are on the more liberal side of the political spectrum. But to say that DeSantis is a closet fascist trying to strip away people's core constitutional rights is not an honest argument.
You can disagree with me without calling me dishonest. I disagree with your characterization of the 2 bills you mention -- but also want to note that you're strawmanning my position, I never advocated for the arguments you're refuting
Let's start with "Don't say gay" -- I agree that the bill is typically discussed and presented in a way that is unclear or misleading, and most people don't actually have an idea of what it says. But it doesn't "simply prohibit the teaching of sex ed to those below 3rd grade" -- it does a lot more than that. (A) it isn't clear what is or isn't allowed below 3rd grade i.e. what constitutes instruction about sexuality or gender, and (B) it also includes exceptionally vague guidelines around what is or isn't appropriate for all students regardless of age. I think this article does a good job describing the ambiguity and reach. My perspective is that this bill was written to be intentionally vague in order to create a chilling effect on instruction because teachers will be vulnerable to lawsuits any time they discuss even adjacent topics
Let's go 2nd bill. His bill ("Stop W.O.K.E. Act") goes far beyond banning "non-historical teachings like reparations, BLM, and queer theory". Let's focus on the pamphlet highlighted in the link under the "Education will not include" section. (A) The 3rd bullet outlaws discussion around the idea that privilege and oppression can be tied to gender or race. (B) The 4th bullet bans discussion around the idea that pure merit or colorblindness can be a racist / sexist. These are both topics that have robust literature worth understanding, even if you ultimately disagree with the conclusion. This bill doesn't just ban teachers from saying "everything BLM says is correct", it would also probably ban things like "current or past policies meaningfully contribute to higher poverty rates experienced by black people" or "maybe certain types of standardized testing aren't as unbiased as we think they are." These are legitimate academic positions and debates, and it seems wrong to make one side of them illegal
Let's go to the 'state funding' argument. These bills are categorically different than normal state education standards. Normally education standards establish topics that need to be taught and metrics to assess sufficiency against them. Instead of saying things like "Students need to learn about xyz", these bills are saying "it's illegal for teachers to discuss controversial topics" -- this is suppression of speech, especially when combined with how overly broad the bills are (and keep in mind state governments need to comply with the 1st amendment)
Black Lives Matters and discussions around reparations are part of history. Banning teaching those things is actively suppressing an interpretation of history which is sympathetic to those movements or claims. If we said "no more teaching about why Confederates wanted to betray the Union, we're only going to teach that white Southerners were huge bigots who should have been thrown in prison to a man" you'd have bigots across the South literally up in arms.
Mr DeSantis, and you, are insisting that your own whitewashed version of American history is the only valid one.
Lol. Would you say the same thing if Mr Biden passed an Executive Order teaching that we can't mention the Bible in schools? "Rules for thee, not for me" - the mantra of conservatives.
Mr DeSantis can try to do whatever he pleases. But he and his supporters need to be prepared to be called authoritarian shitbags when they do, because that is what they are.
It is perfectly accurate, and you certainly don't see any blue states demanding that their schools prohibit the teaching of anything. I'd be glad for you to point me to one.
It's not even questionable that Mr DeSantis is trying to strip away people's core Constitutional rights. The most important right of all, that of citizens to exercise a vote, was stripped away last year, with Mr DeSantis's signature at the bottom of the bill. Ex-felons cannot vote without paying outstanding fines and violations. They have an additional hurdle to exercise their franchise that others do not. Like it or not, it's not only honest but accurate to say that Mr DeSantis supports a tiered system of rights for American citizens.
Facts hurt, I know. Which is why you see most appeals to fear and emotion from the right, not the left. It's why religious people vote Republicans, and most academics and scientists vote Democrat. If you think logic and reason have a place in public discourse, you're pretty much a liberal by definition, at this point.
Well one candidate has solid political experience and seems like a decent person. Yes he’s very old and his current administration has not done much, but that’s where my bar currently is. I simply want a president that doesn’t actively destroy America. Since Biden has had zero cheating scandals involving porn stars, isn’t being investigated for tax fraud, isn’t being sued by multiple people, doesn’t constantly lie for no reason, doesn’t embarrass us at international events, doesn’t say xenophobic things and doesn’t keep claiming any election he loses is rigged, I’m happy.
The other candidate definitely isn’t as evil as trump, but he is close. Yes he may be polished and doesn’t act as deranged as trump. But have you guys been seeing the laws he is passing? He is literally banning talk of being different in schools and because Disney didn’t back his anti gay law he took retribution against them.
For all you republican die hards, aren’t you super anti government? Isn’t taking revenge against a company like a super anti-republican thing to do? Even Mike Pence (the pathetic VP of the trump era) said that was a super hypocritical move lol.
Edit 1: forgot trump also encouraged the capitol riot lol. So any president that doesn’t try to overturn democracy is also a winner in my book.
Edit 2: To any fellow Dems / Centrists / Repubs who are anti left but can also acknowledge the current state of the right is nowhere near traditional Republican values, when any die hard “republican” tries to espouse densantis or anyone else, they will attempt to pretend trump is a non factor or downplay him. Don’t let them. Don’t let them forget the votes for trump to run this country. Don’t let them pretend those 4 years didn’t happen.
Wait so the bar is all personality issues, not blatant acts of unconstitutional governmental overreach? I guess im not shocked considering the left of this country are the moral busy bodies now.
Also do yourself a favor and actually read the laws to which you are referencing and don't take MSNBC's opinion of them as fact. The laws are incredibly tame and pretty much only require parental notification. If you think the law actually made saying gay illegal you are in more of a bubble than you claim other people are.
My bar is literally a president who does not act like a dementia patient, lie bizarrely about the election and encourage his followers to storm the capitol if he loses.
Thats it. That’s my bar.
And you whine about government overreach lol. Your boy Ronald attacked Disney because they disagreed with him. Many the hypocrisy is off the charts with you guys.
This genuinely sounds like a troll pretending to be a lib. Wow. “Isn’t actively trying to destroy America”
The Left’s entire platform is “the US is extremely flawed, racist, and destroying the globe due to climate change. Therefore, you must give us more power and we will fix it all.”
They hate America as it is. Openly! Ask them!
For those who say Biden hasn’t accomplished anything, can you elaborate more on that? Please educate someone like me who doesn’t follow politics. Here’s what I’ve heard/know he’s done in his administration:
CHIPS act, Infrastructure bill, PACT act helping veterans, got us out of Afghanistan (disastrous exit but he got it done when all previous administrations just said they would), got us past COVID, United NATO for the Ukraine war, etc.
He’s old, boring and borderline has Alzheimer’s (half joke), but the guy has gotten things done and without spreading hatred and vitriol to those who disagree with him.
1) Your last statement is an outright falsehood. He has on multiple occasions basically called entire swaths of the country terrorists, insinuated that people who disagree with him should be arrested, among other things.
2) The CHIPS act was a hugely bipartisan agenda so that's not really a challenge, the infrastructure bill is a massive driver of inflation so not sure that is a success in poltical terms even if it turns out to be an economic success in the long run, getting past COVID had more to do with appathy than anything else people just stopped caring and are openly ignoring government propaganda, uniting NATO I would argue has far more to do with Trump's actions in the previous administration and actually getting the freeloaders in Europe to pay up.
If Trump had passed an infrastructure bill and a CHIPS act you would be calling him God. Instead they passed under Biden and you’re saying it was a layup supported by republicans and how he had no role to play.
Inflation came before the infrastructure bill spending, so it was not the driver, no.
When did Biden call huge swaths of the country terrorists? You mean those who stormed the capitol on Jan 6? What would you call them, patriots?? If someone broke into your home with weapons, would you call them criminals or free speech patriots?
I just can’t understand either sides - left or right - that have to think this way. I guess this is why I’m moderate. On the left I hate the extreme AOC / Bernie Sanders / Liz Warren kind of mindsets and on the right it’s Trump and Q Anon.
He's done a lot it's just boring and he isn't saying constant funny shit like Trump. In the first 2 years he has done more than Trump's 2 years (where he had all 3 branches of gov).
“Doesn’t follow politics” yet is all over it
I couldn’t give a flying fuck about CRT, wokeness, LGBTQ, etc. I really do not give a fuck since I think for myself unlike many other people who argue over these trivial topics.
I care about a clean energy transition and a good social welfare system. Unfortunately, the Republican Party is against any energy reform and against protecting our social welfare system (which is funded by blue states and depleted by red states btw)
Biden isn’t a better choice either: He could have protected abortion rights through executive action and he didn’t. He could have legalized marijuana through executive action and expunge ALL marijuana related offenses, but he didn’t.
There are a lot of situations that could have been and can be remedied through executive action but will not happen as it does not fit the agenda.
The argument here is picking a lesser of two evils. I respect De Santis, he is an exceptionally smart man and has the credentials that you would think a president should have. The thing is he is a climate change denier, he does not believe in the transition to clean energy being an important factor of our livelihood and he does the bidding of his party and secular fan base, instead of the general population.
Sadly in this case Joe Biden is the only one that has at least done something relating to my previously mentioned points ( climate change, energy transition, and social system) so I will be voting Biden.
TLDR: Idgaf about transgender, Wokeness, or CRT. They are all meaningless to me and I really can’t give a shit about any of it. All I care about is energy sustainability, a clean green healthy planet and a good social system for when people are struggling. Biden has my pick, however, if Bernie Sanders were running he would get my vote.
There are politicians today who want to allow kids to be sterilized and castrated, and you don't give two shits about that? To have no moral compass on this issue I think is worse than actively pusuing this pervetion because at least you know what is right and wrong. You don't seem to know or care what is right and wrong.
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." Revelation 3:15-16
What? No one wants kids to be harmed or injured like that lol.
Been reading too much conspiracy websites lol?
Also, I love when faux Christian’s like you spout Bible verses lol. Trump is literally the most in Christ like figure I have ever seen.
Cheats on his wife, never does anything charitable, lies, eschews taxes, and let’s not forget absolutely nasty to the poor.
If you’re going to quote a book written so long ago, shouldn’t you support the candidate who mostly closely follows in the steps of Christ?
Isn't Biden a clearly more Christian man than trump? How does your conspiracy website reconcile the fact trump behaves in the most anti Christian fashion imaginable?
Trump, DeSantis, and republicans (religious) extremism is harmful to all of us, including you. When religious beliefs are used to guide political decisions, it leads to policies that are not based on reason, evidence, or OUR needs. Instead the policies are rooted in outdated religious doctrines that are simply just not applicable to modern society.
The Bible (and all religious texts) contain passages that promote discrimination against women, minorities, and people of other religions.
For example:
1 Timothy 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
Using religious beliefs as a basis for public policy simply leads to discriminatory and unjust outcomes. We (You) and our politicians should base decisions and legislation on principles of fairness, justice, and human rights that are consistent with MODERN standards of ethics and MORALITY
Additionally, morality shouldn’t be drawn solely from religious texts as they are outdated (like condoning slavery) and do not reflect modern values.
Furthermore, religious beliefs are personal and are not shared by everyone in a diverse society(I’m a non-believer). It is unfair and undemocratic to impose religious beliefs on others through public policy. In a pluralistic society, political decisions should be based on the principles of democracy, human rights, and social justice, not on religious beliefs.
Don’t lecture me on “what is right or wrong” and morality when you draw yours from the Bible basically.
Per your example, castration is sometimes necessary in cases where babies are born with both a penis and a vagina. The legal medical recommendation is to run blood work and identify what sexual features and characteristics are most predominant ( does the baby have a uterus, testicles) and most developed and then proceed to remove the underdeveloped segment. Republican legislation and policy bans this procedure.
If you’re daughter got raped and pregnant, she would have to forcefully have a child that she does not want and was forced to have due to republican policy. Abortion is banned due to religious extremism by the conservative segment of our congress and should be a RIGHT.
I don’t care about “this and that” because at the end of the day, everything is boiled down to education, and my children’s education will be based off of what I teach them and how I nurture them throughout their childhood. I’m going to teach them they have to pursue a career and higher education, they must be respectful and mindful of people’s situations, and that they should not let themselves be manipulated by perceived emotion by having principles based on fact and SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTED theory.
Sadly, Trump and De Santis don’t share my views on issues I believe are crucial for society
I respect Biden and his presidency due to his focus on green and clean energy initiatives. However, Republicans repeatedly oppose these beneficial measures as evidenced by their rejection of the Green New Deal, efforts to roll back environmental regulations and defunding the EPA. This counteracts ALL progress towards mitigating climate change and protecting the environment.
Bidens social welfare initiatives aim at helping struggling individuals and families, not cutting them from funding !!! However, Republicans have historically and continued to oppose such measures, including food assistance programs, affordable housing initiatives, and healthcare reform. Their obstructionism undermines efforts to reduce poverty and promote social welfare.
Finally, Biden's efforts to combat climate change are AT LEAST commendable, I’m not saying they’re the best since a lot can be done through executive legislation, but Republican policies such as: deregulation of the fossil fuel industry and withdrawal from international climate agreements hinder progress. Their policies prioritize corporate interests over environmental concerns and exacerbate the negative effects of climate change which affect our daily lives and future livelihood !!.
In conclusion, Bidens initiatives are steps in the right direction, but the opposition from Republicans to these initiatives underscores the importance of electing a president who can work collaboratively with both sides of the aisle to effect real change.
I dont believe Trump or DeSantis are capable of such so are unfit to be our president in my opinion. At least Biden is barely moving his foot in the right direction lol
Desantis + VP Nikki Haley 2024
I'd prefer Nikki Haley.
The positive sentiment about Biden is kind of baffling. Given the fact that only ~20% of Dems want him to run in ‘24 I figured people would be more honest with themselves and others about how his presidency has gone so far.
Too much money on this forum. When you’re from the elitist circles that New York rich play in, of course you vote your own into power.
The name of this website is Wall Street Oasis.
Citation needed
Guess it’s 37%
https://apnews.com/article/ap-norc-poll-biden-2024-presidential-prospec…
“That’s according to a new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research that shows just 37% of Democrats say they want him to seek a second term.”
My vote would be against deSantis so therefore I would vote for Biden. deSantis is a smart guy but I get the impression he likes to pander to the types of people who think like those in the Panhandle.
Spoken like a true out of touch elite. Vote against the peasant vermin!
Probably about 75% of WSO would be
categorized as elite. By the way, both rich and poor people have voted for Biden. why would I want to vote for someone who panders to a group in which I have very little in common
This makes zero sense given that DeSantis won re-election by over 19 points and won Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, Osceola, Hillsborough, Pinellas, Duval counties. It was the biggest win in a FL governor race since 1982 and the biggest GOP win since 1868. You don't get such a result by just appealing to panhandle types.
DeSantis is going to get clobbered in the primary anyhow people definitely overstate his chances especially if he is going against Trump.Between the two Biden. Not amazing choices obviously but Biden is an actual adult. DeSantis is crying about CRT and "Woke" like a moron.
Yea, Biden never talks about “equity’s initiatives does he….says the guy who hires a new first every day. First transgendered, first BDSM, first pedophile to have ever held X cabinet position
Oh he’s certainly an adult, he’s over 18 for sure
Are we seriously at the point of defending the rights of pedophiles grooming children? Libertarians, stand the heck up for what is right. No one’s free speech is under attack here….you just can’t talk to minors about your sexual fetishes
Libertarians wouldn't care about drag shows...
I don’t care about drag shows. They’re a group of mentally ill perverts, but if they’re adults I’ll begrudgingly live in a society that allows it in the name of freedom.
But they can’t do drag shows in front of children?
Kind of shocked at all the hate on Desantis and the downplaying of how left-wing ideology has destroyed America in this thread. I’d love for Trump to win again, and if not him, then 8 years of Desantis.
Look at the Biden administration - the president cant even speak in a complete sentence. There are transgender people high up in the government now - I can’t take anyone seriously who argue in any aspect that a transgender person is mentally sane.
The same people in this thread bashing Desantis and republicans are the same people who will downplay the government’s extreme overreach in reacting to Covid. The same people who will just gloss over the fact that AMERICANS lost their jobs and companies due to a virus that leaked from a Chinese lab. But oh, heaven forbid you said that’s what happened at any point over the last 3 years, because if you made that claim, you were spreading misinformation and were being racist.
Remember kids, get the vaccine!!! It stops transmission, and if you’re vaccinated, you can’t get Covid!!! Myocarditis is fake news, and we should put all our faith into big pharma, as they have no track record of shady tactics.
Not once have I seen an argument against Trump’s presidency that isn’t based on “he said mean things”. Joe Biden can’t even say things off a teleprompter.
For those hating on Desantis, I bet you would bring up his “don’t say gay bill”. My response would be, firstly, the bill has nothing to say about being gay. Next, have you seen the videos of books that are in school libraries? There are legit pornographic books depicting gay sex between CHILDREN. What the hell is wrong with you to try and downplay this?
Trump had peace in the Middle East. He had a strong economy. He was a strong leader. I would LOVE for him to run again and win.
Life isn’t fair - a lot of hate for trump is because he’s a successful billionaire who doesn’t apologize.
Okay, you don’t like transgender people…Should we go back to the good ole days when lots of groups were marginalized and worse? The reason some people don’t like Trump is because he acts like an uneducated snake oil salesman.
He doesn't act like an uneducated snake oil salesman, he IS an uneducated snake oil salesman.
You gotta stop watching Fox. Wow you’re deep in the rabbit hole. Touch grass for once.
TV Person /= Real Life
(Does not equal)^
I do agree with you that a transgender person is not “sane”. However, its important to knowledge that gender dysphoria is a REAL mental health issue that leads to anxiety, depression, self-harm, eating disorders, substance misuse and other problems. Its imperative to TREAT this issue and not foster the dysphoria.
My argument against Trump and DeSantis are that they are climate change deniers and against energy reform and transition. Trump is responsible for printing 25% of all USD in CIRCULATION in 9 months and has the audacity to blame a GLOBAL inflationary crisis on Biden LMAO. Hes a a goddamn liar and I dont want him as my president, however he is fucking hilarious and a great entertainer, ill give him that. I love to watch him.
Touch grass Jesus.
Here's a wonderful complete sentence from Trump (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-sentence/):
"Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I'm one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you're a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what's going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what's going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it's all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don't, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible."
So you just blatantly hate a group who will never impact anything in your entire life.
No one ever said the vaccine or masks 100% stop Covid. They help reduce transmission and severity. This is not up for debate. Do you not wear your seatbelt because it is not 100% effective at preventing all injuries in a crash?
Not sure what peace you're referencing and if any, it had nothing to do with Trump. Are you talking about the strong economy he inherited from Obama who rebuilt after 2008? Are you talking about the trillions of dollars he injected into the economy which was applauded, and then right after he left office, you went right back to saying we can't increase the debt ceiling?
You mean the money he inherited and all the businesses he's run into the ground? Or downright fraud?
I'm honestly shocked by the "Biden is okay" sentiment in this thread. Would have expected a very anti-biden thread.
Very shocking. Especially given his threats to our career. Woefully misinformed populace.
Anybody hear back for first round for PWP?
Let's see, over the last 40 years the US has had better wage growth, GDP growth, stock market returns, employment gains and reduced budget deficits under Democratic presidents so I'll go with that side. I also think politicians should be spending their time trying to address real issues that don't include drag shows, classroom bookshelves and whether or not someone is gay so pretty much every member of current GOP is out.
Well the only two Democrat presidents we've had were Clinton and Obama. Clinton's policies look more Republican today than Democrat and Obama presided over an incredible slow economic recovery even with 0% rates. I'd say the policies of Reagan, Bush, and Trump were better for the economy than Obama's.
Then you would be arguing against the facts. Typical republican, data doesn't support them so they will just make shit up.
bad question - depends on what a person has gone through typically throughout life and where their heart aligns in certain issues. No answer just vote baby wooo I love voting
Biden
I'm surprised anyone would make their decision based on candidate, given the two vastly different visions that Dems and Republicans are laying out for the future.
Republicans can never offer any solutions or progress to their voters, (the only meaningful bill Trump passed with unified government was a tax cut for the rich) so every decade or so, they latch onto another culture war. AIDS crisis in the 80s (you can get AIDS from a toilet seat!), the gay crisis in the 90/00s (they'll prey on kids!) and now the transgender "crisis."
All the GOP politicians and Fox News (but I repeat myself) drum up the "hysteria" to distract away from their nonexistent legislative agenda, and their base of lonely, angry seniors and the latest crop of self-hating, bitter College Republicans eat it up. Why is it so hard for "small-government" conservatives to leave people alone?! Glad to see some of the young WSOers in this thread are catching on!
Meanwhile, the Democrat party, albeit quietly and with a leader who is 30 years too old, keep putting up wins for the American people in infrastructure, climate, healthcare, voting rights, and have restored America's standing in global relations after the game show host decided to go play foreign dignitary and salute Kim Jong Un.
I won't say Desantis is worse than Trump; he's not. But he's 80% of Trump with less of a pottymouth, and we have way too many Republicans rushing to elect him and pretend it marks a "return to normalcy". Here is the moment I determined Desantis was a non-starter:
Given I'm a proud, lifelong conservative I'd vote for Ron. With all due respect to the guy in office now, the methods of forceful "change" that the Democrats have created are just another nail in the coffin for what was once the greatest country on earth, and seeing what's become of it is one of the many reasons why I'm going to renounce my citizenship one day.
In my honest opinion, what we need is another Herman Cain: a friend and ally of the taxpayer, a man that'll get things done, not some Washington wishy-washy that hasn't the foggiest idea of what will help his countrymen. If there was another man like that in office, we'd be in a different world.
And in case the self-indulgent politicians have since forgotten, which they seem to have done decades ago, we're not supposed to be subjects to a king anymore; we're supposed to get a leader that has a vested fucking interest in what we need, not one that only cares about himself and his party.
Please describe these "forced" changes.
As a proud, lifelong conservative you almost certainly voted for the guy who encouraged and supported, and continues to encourage and support, an armed coup to overthrow representative democracy in this country. It is mind blowing to me that anyone who voted Trump in 2020 can look in a mirror and say "I'm a proud conservative so I'll vote for DeSantis." Mr Trump made little secret of the fact that he would not step aside willingly if he lost in 2020, and people voted for him anyway. He came out and said, prior to the election, that any result which did not result in his victory was illegitimate. That is what being a proud conservative got you. You chose unthinking party affiliation over the concept of democracy. How do you not look around and think "the people who agree with my policy positions [such as they are, mostly those are nonexistent] are the people who don't believe in democracy" and then rethink your politics?
We had that guy. He launched an armed coup to keep himself in power. This is exactly the fucking platform Mr Trump ran on in 2016, and exactly why he won. How do you sit here and think "hey, that rationale got us a guy who accomplished nothing, who did more to undermine the concept of free and open democracy than any other human in American history" and then turn around and vote for the same damn thing!
So... the kinds of people that Republicans in particular have been voting for for years? Remember, this is the party that had eight years to think of a viable alternative to the Affordable Care Act and instead of crafting one, decided that the most important thing for the country was dismantling any accomplishment of a Democrat instead of actually crafting policy that would help Americans. There is no other interpretation for the farce that played out in 2017. Or are you referring the various politicians who, in the face of an armed putsch that threatened not only the future of democracy in the United States, but their very lives, decided that they were better off kowtowing to Mr Trump instead of holding on to their principles?
The closest thing this country has to a king is Donald Trump, and that is only because your average conservative voter is more interested in being fed emotionally reassuring lies and half truths than in doing any work themselves. He's a symptom, not a cause. Republicans are not only not against having a king, they are actively begging for one. To at least give Mr Trump his due, he isn't in it for the good of his party over the country - he's in it to enrich himself at the expense of both
Let's get something straight, shall we? I didn't support President Trump until he was the last man standing. Originally I supported Bush (shudder) and then John Kasich. This was largely due to Trump's opinions of minorities and to his feud with the Holy Father prior to the election. But that was a long time ago; now I don't subscribe to rhetoric from either side of the aisle, and I'd rather support the libertarian point of view. (Reagan 2024 would be a dream come true for me.)
Trump wasn't the Messiah. Everyone who thinks/says he was suffers from a mental condition, and I'm not one of those voices. Unlike my fellow "Republicans" that worked under the commander-in-chief, I supported him because I believe in standing by my party with pride. In terms of Democratic candidates, I do respect President Obama for certain things despite disagreeing with his views; it takes balls of iron to lead a country, let alone being a Black man running a world superpower, and Obama knew what he was doing. Respect to him for what he did and continues to do today.
I'd like to further affirm that, while looking back and realizing that my words seem to defame the liberal cause, I try my hardest not to think this way about the other side of the divide. John Wayne was a Republican during his lifetime, but even he was smart enough to say: "I didn't vote for him (referencing Kennedy), but he's my president, and I hope he does a good job." That's the way I want conservatives to think about liberals, and vice versa. But sadly, that's not the world in which we live just yet.
Maybe one day...
Interesting rant here. You would do great as a columnist for Daily Beast.
74 million Americans voted for Trump in 2020. Most of them have major objections to what happened on 1/6. But for conservatives such as myself, I'm not going to vote Dem in 2024 because Trump is bad. And to be clear, I will NOT vote for Trump again even if he were the nominee (for a myriad of reasons I'm not gonna get into here), but I also will not vote Dem. Their policies and principles are antithetical to what I believe in. It's fine to have policy disagreements with the other side, but you tarring Republicans because of dumbass Trump and his goons who stormed the capitol, is extremely ignorant.
It's a question of first principles. I believe every American citizen deserves a vote. I believe in freedom of speech. I believe in a person's right to live their life as they wish, as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's rights. Mr DeSantis explicitly repudiates all of those fundamental positions. He does not support voter's rights, he does not believe in the right to free speech (whether that is in the classroom, or in criticizing his policies) and he very clearly doesn't think trans people are real people with real rights.
What my tax bill is, or what his policy is on the border, or anything else are completely immaterial in the face of that. He's proven that he'll restrict the ability of Americans with whom he disagrees to express those views, which means he cannot be trusted to uphold my rights to do those things either. If you believe in representative democracy, Mr DeSantis is only better than Mr Trump in that Mr Trump has long since shown that he would have preferred a violent coup to maintain his grip on power, and Mr DeSantis hasn't had the opportunity. A vote for the GOP is a vote for restricting the franchise, and while I'm sure many older white bigots would love that, I can't stomach it.
Pretty much sum up my view there. DeSantis would rather parrot talking GOP talking points about drag queens reading books because it'll get his ignorant fundamentalist base riled up enough to ignore how all of them can't even afford their insurance premiums.
The bar on the republican side is very low. I guess if you are not a domestic terrorist or support domestic terrorism, you can seek the republican nomination.
I would argue at this point, being or supporting a domestic terrorist is a prerequisite for being a Republican. It's the party of white nationalism, which means either actively or tacitly encouraging violence from that quarter - anyone who has voted Republican since 2020 is explicitly supporting the idea that white men should be allowed to impose their own values and preserve their own privileges through the exercise of violence against their fellow citizens.
Which, you know... if you support your right to silence me by violence, then you lose your right to complain if you don't like the policies of others.
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