How are your relationships with your PM?
Curious if the majority of analysts have good working relationships with their PM, or if there is obvious tension and/or aggressiveness?
My PM is so contradictory - wants one thing one day and the next day yells at me for doing exactly that.
Feel pretty lucky to have a great relationship with my PM. As one of the more junior people on the team, I’ve never felt like I can’t ask questions or go to him for advice. He’s super approachable and actually wants to help. I genuinely think that's because he’s a family guy and one of his kids is around my age...
That said, when I f*** up, he makes it clear. Those convos aren't fun, but I honestly respect it. It pushes me to take ownership.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, relationships between analysts and PMs can vary widely, and your experience isn't uncommon. Some analysts report working with PMs who struggle to effectively utilize their team, leading to frustration and tension. For instance, one analyst shared that their PM had whimsical market views and often made trades without consulting the analyst team, leaving them feeling undervalued and out of the loop. This type of environment can make it difficult to learn and grow, especially if the PM doesn't provide clear feedback or reasoning behind decisions.
On the flip side, there are PMs who excel at fostering collaborative relationships. Analysts in these setups often feel heard and valued, with their input being a critical part of the decision-making process. One analyst mentioned that their PM was fantastic at sharing feedback, even when they disagreed, and trades were rarely executed without solid input from the analyst. This type of dynamic not only builds trust but also accelerates learning and development.
If you're dealing with a contradictory PM, it might help to focus on clear communication and documenting decisions to avoid misunderstandings. However, if the environment feels toxic or unproductive, it could be worth considering a move to a team or shop where collaboration and respect are prioritized.
PM not very approachable, yells a lot and throws tantrums over very minor things. So yeah, generally a lot of tension and aggressiveness with him.
That said, from the conversations I've had with my other analyst friends it seems like this is fairly normal as far as things go - man this industry sucks hah
Whats your background man? I'm interviewing for a few L/S roles from an infra PE background. Everyone in the industry I speak to tells me dont do it haha
Been at a macro pod for 3/4 years now, was at an AM prior to that.
Honestly man, most PMs are very difficult people to work with. You might get lucky and end up working with a PM who’s more down to earth but I wouldn’t have that as my base case. But there’s a lot of micromanagement that even filters down to how quickly you respond in the bbg chat
You’ve also gotta consider the pay, which, on average is not as good as other areas of finance. So there’s a decent chance you could get paid less for years while taking on high amounts of stress. Most pods are genuinely very mediocre - a lot of PMs you meet will seem very knowledgable and smart on the surface but their PnLs are actually very mediocre in reality. In the macro space at least, there are maybe a small handful of PMs who are regularly pulling in 100mm years so this is so far from the norm. So those threads you see on here where everyone is claiming 3-4mm payouts as subpms are actually really really rare.
Honestly, I would definitely try to avoid any new buildouts, because here you’ll likely to have build everything from scratch while working longer hours and having little visibility over how well your pod is likely to do. Always better to join an established pod if you can, especially if the pm seems like a decent guy.
Not at a HF but something I noticed is that my PM, who is genuinely a very very nice person, turned rather unkind only once. Specifically when facing a crazy amount of pressure. So looking at HFs, maybe only MM, I am not surprised PMs aren't so nice/respectful, especially when they are consistently questioning whether they'll still have a job tomorrow.
For my PM, a big part of the challenge when things turned very stressful, was the fact that he had to bear the entire weight of the operation alone, whilst feeling that the analysts were not proactive/capable enough in making things easier for him (two analysts btw). It was a shitty period, but I used it to understand my PM more as a person, figuring out how to approach him and relieve pressure next time around.
Point I am making is that perhaps we should spend more time figuring out how to ameliorate relationships with PMs into something more pleasant, than expecting to find nice people in these very stressful environments.
It kinda astounds me how bad a lot of PMs are at cultivating a good culture. Having a solid culture can be a boon to any business, but imo it's easier to get away with rough culture if you're managing low-skill employees at a factory who push buttons in an assembly line all day. I think it matters a lot more in high human capital settings where the product is bourn of intellect, ideas, and collaboration. Psychological safety is a real thing and it never made sense to me why some PMs will foster hostile environments, either deliberately or inadvertently.
most analysts are there to grind models in excel
it's barely half a step above pushing buttons in a factory - both easily replaceable commodities
Analyst is there to do research. Model is one piece but if you’re spending >50% of time on just company financial models not really sure how it takes that long
My PM is super chill and way better than any of my bosses from my SS ER days. Very approachable for any questions and explain to me each trade they put on every day. We shoot the shit regularly. N = 1 but these situations are definitely possible, just don’t focus on prestige/brand recognition and find someone you can vibe with.
Super chill, approachable, easy to shoot the shit with...does he/she pay well?
My current PM called me before I joined and told me that this business tends to make those in risk taking positions very emotional and told me to have a thick skin in case he ever slips up. Luckily, he is a super chill guy, never been angry or mad, yelled or cursed even once. He does get constructive in a serious tone, but that literally helps me at the end of the day and he buys me lunch right after lmao so I'm one of the very few who have good bosses.
Pro tip, it's a good measure to check what kind of family dynamic the PM has. If the PM is from a dysfunctional household i.e. going through a divorce, third or fourth marriage, has teenagers who keep him on the edge etc it is not a good sign.
I personally feel grateful for my PM's wife, terrific woman. She makes his life easy and he makes mine easy, there is a chain reaction here. There is more than market frustration that PMs take out on their analysts.
Amen
Agree on the family part 100%
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