How to protect yourself in a divorce - US and UK
I am 24yo and I think I'm a long way from getting married but it would piss me off to an infinity if my wife suddenly changes a few years down the line and starts cheating, abusing the kids or gets into drugs or something ridiculous then divorces me and gets my house and half (if not more) of my savings that I spent years accumulating.
I know everyone points to a prenup to protect yourself, but in the UK I heard its not legally binding and is basically expensive paper and in the US I hear stories of millionaires and billionaires of both genders being screwed over by some bimbo and I doubt a lot of these successful people would not have had prenups in the first place.
Is there any alternative to avoid this? If my wife and I fall out of love amicably I would be fine splitting in half so its not like I am just being greedy, I just don't want someone who has bad intentions to win.
Do things like having the assets in the Cayman Islands or Switzerland work? Or tying up the assets in a family trust? Or is there a special kind of iron clad pre nup you can get.
I am in the US but considering moving to England in the future to have a family so advice from either geography will be very appreciated. I am also considering keeping the money in africa since I have a background there and they are more "flexible" when it comes to finances.
Following.
I am having a similar issue. Does anyone have any advice on how to keep your girlfriend from getting jealous when you bring in a new woman for a threesome? I am single and haven't had sex in six months but it would really piss me off if my gf broke up with me just because I spent too much time banging the side chick during our threesome. I mean isn't that the whole point of a threesome? Bring in a new girl to have sex? Why is my hypothetical girlfriend so mad at me?
So much of this is based on who you marry. If you marry some hot model, you're asking for these problems. Look for someone rational, level-headed, career-oriented in some way even if that's being a teacher. Have a separation agreement in place before you marry, but make sure you're picking someone who can come away from a fight normally and is not vindicative or a user or anything.
If you pay for the house on your own, put it in a trust so it's not an asset to worry about in a split since you don't technically "own" it. Talk to a financial advisor about ways to protect your assets in the event of a divorce. The international accounts crap is more about tax evasion. Also, if your wife contributes to the mortgage, or your assets are in a trust but she has rights to it, you may lose in a nasty divorce so all of this has to be in your name only.
In the US prenups are pretty binding, far fewer people have them than you'd think. Jeff Bezos didn't have one and that is why he gave up so much money. Bill Gates didn't either, but his wife is rational and they resolved things quietly and out of the press.
I don't think Bezos having a prenup would really matter anyway, given that essentially all his wealth was created after he was married.
I think you could structure it in a way that covers future earnings/wealth creation, but if you start getting into joint accounts or anything over time that definitely becomes fuzzier
You’re definitely going to get divorced at some point if you don’t change your way of thinking. Finances and everything needs to be fully shared with your SO IMO - this is not a transaction. Seems like you’re looking at this as some investment. Even for a 24 year old that is a messed up way of thinking
That is the perfect, logical, rational way to think about things.
Yeah I'm just protecting myself really, I am not abusive and non combative so like I said I would be willing to split half with my wife if things just do not work out naturally.
But I could still end up in a messy divorce where she wants my house, alimony, child support and part of my future income for life and due to my career path I'll likely be the higher earner that'll be ruled against. I am just covering my ass. No matter how much you love someone they could always be hiding massive evil and funny enough love can blind you from seeing any hints of whats to come.
Not getting married.
I wouldn't recommend hiding stuff internationally. You're going to have to lie on tax forms (risking pretty massive penalties), or the assets are very traceable if you do split. Foreign trusts are also a headache if you keep US citizenship or tax residency.
Can't comment on prenups or the like. If you're serious about this, discuss with a lawyer.
A good friend of mine started planning about 4 years into his marriage for a divorce. They had 2 children (2 and 3 years old), and he could tell things were going south quickly.
He started in IB, then shifted to PE and eventually took over as CFO/COO of a portfolio company, so had been earning in the high six figures for about 10 years.
He knew a good forensic accountant could find hidden/offshore money fairly easily so he devised a plan.
He started withdrawing $500-600 regularly (3-4 times a week which he said was for golf, drinks, kids outings etc) from his bank account.
Then he started buying high end watches (mostly Rolex and Patek Philippe) and bars of silver and gold with the cash.
Shortly after he started buying cars (mostly Porsches, Ferrari, Old Land Rovers, and motorcycles) some of these were above board, but most were bought with all cash.
He and another friend of mine bought a small warehouse together and opened a restoration / repair shop where they bought and traded for wrecked and / or damaged exotic cars.All transactions were made through our mutual friend's LLC.He traded, fixed up, and sold over 80 cars in 6 years.
Right before he got divorced he brought me into the back of his shop where he had several gun safes. Inside the safes were 30-40 sets of keys for exotics, about 100 high end watches, and huge stacks of bars.
He said all it would be untraceable.
The divorce got really ugly and she accused him of hiding money and assets, and hired a forensic accountant and auditor who went through 12 years of financials.After a year all they found was two accounts he had set up for his kids that had about $15,000 each in them. (He said this really helped)
She ended up with 1/2: one of the houses, alimony, child support (50% custody) and 2 cars.He told me he had $2 million in watches, $800k in bars, $2 million in cars, plus $500k in cash.
He made most of the money buying and trading cars.He is now "retired" in his late 30's developing real estate.
And you'd have no problem repeating these words in front of a judge right?
Never happened.
100% happened
I have personally seen something very similar. But with different assets that were harder to value.
Yep, a forensic accountant can find overseas bank accounts but not a warehouse full of Ferraris that he spends all his free time in.😂
I totally agree.
They (accountant and lawyer) went to the shop multiple times, but mostly to look at items that had his name on the title. By then he had moved everything out (to his sisters garage) which was well before the divorce was filed.
The shop/storage area wasn’t in his name, and he only went there to drive and work on his cars on the weekends as he had a full time job.
He had several cars (don’t know the exact number) that he bought in traceable transactions (wire transfers, checks, etc.), so those were part of the record for the divorce.
Keep in mind all this happened over 10-11 years it wasn’t instant.
Also keep in mind I could give a shit if anyone here believes or doesn’t believe this.
I may not have 100% of the information, but I saw it first hand.
His best friend ‘s name Is Tai Lopez. He runs a successful hedge fund that has generated alpha with a ponzi-scheme focused strategy across a myriad of asset classes. Diversification in LPs and idiots you raise money from is key to success
In all seriousness, why even bother getting married anyway?
They dated a few years and were really happy. She changed after the kids and started threatening to move back home with children (she was not from the US originally- Russian).After about 5-6 years of marriage she would openly say (in front of his family and friends) things like "I am going to leave you and take all your money" or "when I leave you, you will take care of me" etc. It wore him out. At first he was just really into watches and had two Porsches, I think he saw a way to shelter from there
Who in their right mind marries a Russian?
bEcAuSe sOcIeTy sAiD sO
There are significant benefits to being married, most of which are in the 'oh fuck' phase where you really can't find time to fix stuff like POA, health care proxy and inheritance. Hire a pro if you want the details.
I'm not entirely clear on prenups but isn't it the case that they protect your assets before the marriage? So if you got a prenup with say a net worth of 1m, if you married and then your net worth went up to 10m, would the prenup protect only the 1m or would it also cover the 9m of gains you received during the marriage? Or is this something which you can structure?
curious
Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot you can do, but here are a few things to keep in mind:
1 - A lot of it comes down to the state. Certain states are more favorable to the low earner while others sometimes favor the high earner. If you are getting divorced, do it in a state that is beneficial for your personal situation.
2 - For high earners, the alimony can be the most significant part of the divorce. Your wife is likely to be entitled to your future earnings, not just half the assets. If you find yourself in this situation, try to cap the alimony at $x / year. You don't want an uncapped alimony because if your earnings spike, so will your alimony payment.
3 - Related to #2, the courts can force you to keep working in order to make alimony payments. Not only that, but they can force you to keep working in your preferred field. I know a lawyer who got divorced in his 40s and was told that he must continue to be a lawyer and make big money. If he wanted to quit to start a business, she could sue him and block it. (Note: I'm curious how wsomaster's friend was able to retire early in this scenario. It's certainly possible, but could have been a tough negotiation).
4 - Hiding assets overseas is silly. Trusts are the better way.
5 - If there are young kids involved, you may be forced to live geographically proximate to each other to ease the burden on the kids. So if you're going to move to the UK and raise a family, make sure you'd be happy being forced to stay in the UK after a divorce.
There are also plenty of other important factors, but these may be less well known.
Wow, 2 and 3 are absolutely awful. I'm support the concept of marriage from a spiritual angle, but then the government should have no say like this whatsoever. Being a bachelor seems the way to go for high earners.
Yup marriage from a spiritual angle is a major reason why I want to get married. And the stories above are not uncommon at all. Thats why I started this thread. Who knows it could sway someone into getting a prenup.
Imagine being forced to stay in a profession you hate over a woman you hate
What would be some of the fault reasons for divorce?
She could start divorce proceedings because she feels like it. 70% of divorces are initiated by women and if the scenario above happens if someones wife cheating, maxing credit cards and smoking crack she could still easily get at the very least half your stuff and your kids which is why I started this thread.
10 to 1 the OP doesn’t have any generational wealth or inheritance that even needs protecting.
I always through the term incel was some liberal, feminist rubbish, but this board proves it’s an apt adjective for some men.
Single and broke 24 year old already feeling animosity to his potential future wife, yikes.
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