Inappropriate VP?
To start, I was scheduled on a zoom with a VP on my desk and he made a comment on my appearance (now several times when he sees me on zoom) which at first I didn't think too much of. He then gave me his number (for me to ask any quick questions etc.) and we've been exchanging texts and I feel like this nature of the conversation is very inappropriate (asking me for drinks, clubs I've been to, intimate college life etc.) and is now unrelated to me knowing the product of the desk I'm on. Should I tell him I no longer want to text (stick to zoom or IM) or is this usually how lax convos are? I really like this desk and don't want to jeopardize a potential offer but since this is the first time an internship like this is on a virtual platform it's hard to tell the difference between friendly networking and inappropriateness.
Set a boundary. Let him know "Sorry, I don't share [facebook account, Whatsapp, pictures, personal SMS texts] with work colleagues. I would not want myself to be seen as unprofessional so best to keep these spheres separate. Thanks for understanding."
I agree with this, personally (as a guy though so YMMV). Make sure the tone sounds informal when saying this, like it’s a casual thing you’re letting him know (as casual as “oh yeah I grew up in LA and then went to ____ University”). That casual tone will help with feeling like it’s normal for you to not get super personal, and lessens the likelihood of the VP taking it personally.
Casual is good, but the boundary should be crystal clear. Guys are dumb and dense as rocks. The boundary needs to be crystal clear. And if the boundary gets violated then you politely but clearly have to say
"Hey Guy, I think you're nice and well-meaning, so I don't want you to take offense at this. But we really have to respect work boundaries ok? Got to keep it professional, and keep appropriate distance."
You can cut and paste that as a response to the next inappropriate advance if you want.
When I was a new grad out of uni, I was a little flirty with one of my friends (a long-time friend NOT A CO-WORKER). She politely but firmly told me "I like you as a friend and want to keep hanging out but you need to respect our boundaries as just friends, ok?" Fair enough, and I was never flirty again in any way. The key was her clarity and setting the limit. Plus she was nice about it. I suggest you do the same.
Very sound advice, thank you!
I would think normally VPs don’t give a * about intern’s personal life so sounds more inappropriate than being friendly
I wouldn't be to quick to judge. It is possible that your VP is just being friendly to make you feel welcome, and give you exposure to the culture of the company.
I think this is something OP would have to feel out (no pun intended), probably would err on the side of caution and say this is a little creepy considering most IMs can be sent through a phone app so there’s no reason to text imo (I say this despite my manager texting my team instead of just IMing us as a group).
I can’t think of a situation where it is ok, as a VP, to ask an intern about clubs/nightlife or really much about social life. There are so many other ways to be friendly without being creepy (I.e. talk about anything else, literally anything else). As a VP you are in your late 20’s, you are going to make 20-21 yr olds uncomfortable if you start asking them about clubbing, get to know their interests, do the easy thing and talk about the firm and ways they can develop, talk about upcoming intern events, what they are majoring in, so many other topics...
agree, seems like he could be making a move (specifically because he’s mentioned looks a few times). if it weren’t for that I may chalk it up to trying to ingratiate you into the culture of the firm, as some of these chats could normally be had at a work happy hour or something like that where it would probably be viewed as casual getting to know eachother.
Lmao I'm sorry what? Ppl talk about where they go out alllll the time what world do you live in???
ladies and gentlemen, we got him
Ha, let’s get one thing straight. Under no scenario is this VP “being friendly” or how “lax convos” go. This is classic boundary testing by a dude to see where you stand. Ball is in your court.
I am aware my opinion may come across as brash, but it is the truth. It is unfortunate that you are in this situation but it won’t be your last rodeo with a coworker taking a shot. Trust your gut. You are what? A 20+ yr old...? You have been around enough to know when a guy is testing the waters.
Just be a normal human navigating a personal relationship and steer it towards what you want it to be. Don’t respond when you don’t want to. Be short/concise. Be professional. He should (hopefully) get the point pretty quickly.
Again, I feel for you having to deal with it but you are going to have to learn this sort of defense/strategy in your professional life as a female. No matter what noise the PC police out here tell you. FWIW, I have come across some females who are f’n elite defense players and I tip my cap to them every single time I see it.
Thanks will do this! I try to only ask questions related to the job but also don't want to come across as not personable. I def know when a guy is hitting on me but with this situation it was just unclear since he's older but def will steer the convo away from more personal comments.
Steer/deflect/duck whatever you gotta do.
I would recommend not responding to a personal comment and then following up with a work related question that you need answered through one of your work chat systems. Just keep doing as much as you can to steer away from the personal texts, even if it feels obvious/Non-personable.
If I was him I would respect the signals and give up the chase.
This and what @earthwalker7 mentioned above.
Don't feel obligated to entertain personal questions, and setting clear boundaries is perfectly fine, and probably necessary. If needing to endure such treatment is seen as coming off as not personable, it's probably not the desk you would want to end up on anyway - I really doubt this would ever play out negatively, but worst case you have great experience, contacts, and will get onto an even better desk.
Nobody should have to tiptoe around inappropriateness at work, the hours are enough torture!
lol you people cant handle conversations with anyone anymore. Run to your safe spaces. Nothing wrong with some friendly conversations- I can't believe where we have come to as a society. Sure, tell him you dont want to talk about it anymore and watch how awkward things will get- your career not mine. wow
Haha come on now... Dudes sliding in her DMs on her cell talking about anything but work. Been there done that... like 4 different times... You can’t bullshit a bullshitter. I can see myself in HR court now: “You got me”
I am in your camp on the safe space thing, but a chick intern asking for a little help on how to navigate her way through these situations is hardly the same as what you are talking about. There’s professional/normal way that two adults can test the waters and move on with zero harm on either side. I respect her for reaching out and not looking to blow the whole ship up screaming n yelling to coworkers/HR.
I'd have to see both sides before making a further comment on this. Things have to get pretty abnormal for me to see it as anything other than normal conversation, especially to call it "inappropriate".
I understand that people can be attracted to each other and text back and forth in certain ways (flirtatious). She should just keep things straight like you pointed out- no reason to call it inappropriate in my mind though (title of the post)- that's quite an aggressive labeling. With that being said there is a power dynamic at play so the VP has more responsibility here- again would have to see both sides.
That’s a terrible response. This is a grown person, a mature, grown, adult creepily hitting on a 20-21 yr old. It is not ok.
a 21 year old is not a grown person? Or is she a child or an incompetent? Grow up - VPs can be like 27 and thats not a huge age gap. Im not defending any weird conversations that may or may not have happened here, but with specific regard to your comment, it is not the case that a 21 year old is not an autonomous adult who can't make their own decisions. If she doesnt like his conversation, she can change the topic in a slick way or she can answer less frequently, etc.
Isn't it obvious that this guy is trying to get into your pants?
If I were you, I would see where this goes. If it gets worse, you have proof of sexual harassment. Sue the bank and never have to work again.
thanks for imparting your wisdom unto us, prospect.
You're welcome , creepy VP who preys on interns.
There are lot of unattractive people in banking and its sad to see a VP hitting on an intern.
My intern straight up tried to seduce me by coming to work one day as a japanese school girl. You dont shit where you eat.
Tinder is literally ubereats for vagina and its sad that men can't keep their dick in their pants and overextend with female colleagues.
Japanese school girl? What?
I am picturing that parking garage scene from Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift
You have never had a work wife with the occasional inappropriate after hours behavior that neither of you speak about in the office?
No grubhub order from hinge/tinder/bumble on planet earth compares. Not even f’n close.
Nope lmao This is hilarious and want to hear more info!
Ah. Another man of culture I see
“I only date guys that eat ass!” “Oh oops so sorry wrong person! :/ “
If he’s still in after that he’s a keeper.
We had a creepy VP that was super creepy to one of the girls in my analyst class.
You need to remember that a lot of VPs are lonely. They came out of their MBA programs single, marched proudly into their Associate roles, and then became so overwhelmed by all of the numbers and Excel shortcuts that they lost track of the years, waking up a few years down the road after an extended period that consisted solely of proofreading slides and celibacy. So when a creepy VP is acting creepy, they are not just “being nice”. What you are witnessing, in fact, is a demented mating dance of sorts
Anyway, she handled it like a champ. Any time he would text or call her, she would reply via a work-related line of communication - email, chat, etc. - but in a casual and easygoing way. I don’t think she replied to a single text after the first few months (although she’d always show them to the rest of us lol) and would literally just send him an email response. Sometimes he would creepily try to order dinner together but she’d just make everyone congregate in a conference room with their dinner orders. He eventually backed off but man that dude couldn’t take a hint
Anyway, just stay aloof and play a little dumb and answer via means that leave a paper trail if he is especially creepy
Damn that take on mid-level bankers is too real. No one at my company rn fortunately but I totally see that
Set boundaries ASAP . I feel like some of the guys in finance have Aspergers or something. I once had an phone interview with MD who said if I wanted to work there I would have to sleep with him. He literally just came out with it like that and I started giggling at the absurdity of him. Then he started getting vicious saying his wife was much better than me& I would never make it as a trader cos I’m gonna have to sleep with someone to get the job. Like I was going to say ‘oh well in that case let me oblige....’ ffs. Then I looked up his wife and she looked like a Liza Cundy clone.
Wow... Were you not worried/scared of him harming your career? I'm sorry you went through this.
Such is the life of a non-Chad. A true Chad can be "creepy" and "awkward" to the girls in the office and the advances will either be welcomed or politely rejected (with the girl getting a huge ego boost about it).
The difference between harassment and legit welcomed flattery is pure Chad aesthetics.
![https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p017mtw99bA/UsfgQ1d9cJI/AAAAAAAAJtk/ZsCmv2hb…]
[https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p017mtw99bA/UsfgQ1d9cJI/AAAAAAAAJtk/ZsCmv2hb… https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p017mtw99bA/UsfgQ1d9cJI/AAAAAAAAJtk/ZsCmv2hb…
VP be like
I couldn't get past 15 seconds. CRINGE!
“Minimum effective dose” is key here. Set a boundary but be chill about it. He’s being inappropriate but if you take a firmer tone than necessary, he might feel as though he’s being called something worse and you don’t want him feeling defensive.
To be clear, not defending him. Just saying what’s best for you is to let him feel like it’s no big deal.
So just be like sorry I decided a long time ago to keep work separate from everything else in my life.
this is the perfect situation to declare that you have a boyfriend...not in an aggressive way...but offhand mention something like "oh yeah, my boyfriend was telling me the other day about xyz"
It sounds fine to me so far, we text on our personal phones to joke, curse or speak more freely. If you feel really uncomfortable, ghost him on your personal phone as soon as possible. The less you interact the better, short concise answers are best. Keep it casual and if it is innocent, he just wants to get to know you to see if he can trust you and get along on the desk. It's hard to trust someone with $2 let alone a 200m book if you can't trust them as a person. If he says something, you could be more direct and tell him you try to keep your personal life separate from work because you don't want things to get weird. Best of luck.
This is so gd upsetting - a microcosm of culture issues in finance. Most other industries you can not worry about a ‘power dynamic’ making things difficult on you.
Difficult situation, I’d try to be cordial but brief like others have said. I’m sorry you’re going through this. You’d think guys his age would be less fucking desperate than to slide in an intern’s DMs. Total clown
^^ yeah this. The power dynamic of a VP over an intern makes this so cringe. One should generally not date inside of a workplace anyway. Too complicated. But I get it, feelings happen. But in no case should a senior be 'testing boundaries' with a junior - and an intern no less. It's so messed up. As I said above, when he crosses a questionable line, be firm but nice and re-establish the workplace/professional environment frame. As a VP actually he has MUCH more to lose than OP and he should definitely know better than to cross these lines.
Easy....just tell him that you got a girlfriend.
Hey, this is a difficult situation, The worst situation is you tagging along hoping he is just "friendly" but never clarifying out of fear that it will impact you, while he thinks you are reciprocating the interest. This guy has a low social intelligence at best, or is a dck trying to take advantage of the situation at worst. For him it might be that he just likes you and is texting you and thinking things are "progressing". What he doesn't understand is that the power dynamic makes this "progression" a false-positive 90% of the time. You need to use your judgement (which might be hard remotely) to know if he is just a clumsy good guy or a dck. One way to do that is to find out if he is as friendly / helpful to other inters, especially guys. Whatever you do, don't let this drag on.
I asked the other interns and some of them said he hasn’t given out his number/took the convo beyond email/zoom...
This post is so specific with details. Your potentially digging yourself a deeper hole just by putting the title “Inappropriate VP,” especially on the biggest banking forum. I would not be surprised if the VP has read this by now, which would probably hurt you way more than if you brushed him off saying “no.” He’s just a normal dude looking for a girl, I don’t see much wrong with that. If anything, coming to this site for advice seems more like an act of attention rather than actually trying to solve the problem.
Edit: I’ll leave this here but I take back my comment. I was wrong.
+ms please stfu. the adults are talking and no, she is not looking for attention ffs
This is part of the problem. Saying “he’s just a normal dude looking for a girl” is the type of excuse/attitude that leads to problems and more importantly, excusing behavior like this.
Not sure if you work in a professional setting, but commenting on someone’s looks is off limits. This is very important when you are talking about such a difference in power dynamics.
If you are a guy looking for a girl, you should not be doing that with such a difference in power structure, it is incredibly risky for you and the firm. The person who is getting these comments is going to feel uncomfortable and is going to feel pretty trapped. Comment on this and potentially lose your return offer (which by the way would be illegal but also so hard to prove) or try and deal with it gracefully.
Keep in mind that the person who is the VP in this situation is the person who should hold the responsibility to not put others (especially interns) in this situation. While the intern may be able to handle this gracefully, they shouldn’t be in this situation, that shouldn’t be the discussion, the discussion needs to be about keeping your personal life separate from your work environment. And to not use power dynamics like this.
Agreed 100%. In fact I recommend significantly more conservatism than this. I have made it a policy not to involve myself with any woman at school or work - junior or not, because you can easily get a me too accusation. Keep the conversations cordial, always in mixed company, and move on. Best to just use one of the apps - so much easier and less stressful
Ahh okay. This is my mistake, you made a lot of good points actually. I didn’t look at it from professional standpoint. All I was thinking was that making a post like with a such a title would definitely reach back to the VP and probably hurt her. But then again, a VP should never even do this from the start so he is in the complete wrong.
Glad you took back your thoughts because I was actually seeking out real advice on the situation, not attention (I could’ve wrote verbatim what was said). Even if he did see the post, don’t think he’d confront me about it bc he’d have to acknowledge the situation.
We are not in normal dude meets normal girl scenario. If you want to hit on a girl a work (not recommended) at least do it properly and acknowledge the power dynamic. That means you NEED to make it crystal clear to her that you are mature enough to take a rejection with no impact/awkwardness whatsoever, and i mean explicitly. You can't just keep pushing boundaries to "see what happens" like in other instances, that will make her very uncomfortable because she can't easily reject you which causes a lot of stress.
It's almost never worth it unless you think there is a decent chance she is "the one", which doesn't really happen after 2 zoom calls...
Is he not cute enough?
Just keep trying to mention that you have a boyfriend in every conversation (and to take it a step further, talk about how great he is and how much you love him; maybe even say you all are thinking of getting married sometime in the future). I don't know why any guy would keep pursuing someone who is madly in love with their boyfriend.
Plot twist: This is actually the infamous PJT VP who wants his analysts to be working hard late into the night while he hits on an intern.
I do not think the behavior is that unusual for a trading desk. Of course, the behavior is inappropriate and I am not sure why any woman would want to be on a trading desk (I am assuming that you work in trading but I I could be wrong). I think the best course of action is to ignore the inappropriate stuff.
If you're being polite and nice it gives him the wrong signal that you're leading him on even though you're just being you so I would just start by telling him you have a BF it's the easiest method
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