Been in BB IB for 5 years now, and reflecting on my personal achievements since graduating there's not much I can point to. I've been a top-ranked A&A since joining, and achieving beyond expectations for a notoriously sweaty group can be all consuming (i.e. 3ams on weekdays and full weekends, even as a senior ASO).
I'm single, lost interest in going to the gym (used to be a competitive PL), lost regular contact with most of my friends except a few, and have some milder addictions that I'm struggling to kick (probably as a coping mechanism / to unwind). All to say is it feels like I'm running on a hamster wheel with no end in sight.
The most logical answer is to get off the hamster wheel. My challenge is I don't hate banking, especially the growing responsibilities I've been given which I feel better align with my skillset / interest. I also have great team culture and a ton of runway / support from the seniors. The last few points have really been the main deterrent for why I haven't left for a group / firm with better WLB. The other element compounding on the stress / burnout is the staffing situation - I'm trying to get ramped up as an execution lead / junior coverage officer, but the support from below hasn't been sufficient so I'm often left doing 2-3 jobs (general deal teams are A+A or VP+MD).
Has anyone been in a similar situation and recovered? Part of me feels like if I hold on for a few more years, I'll be through the thick of the grind and will finally get a chance to reap my rewards. The other half is saying this hamster wheel is forever, and if money isn't the main motivator (which it isn't for me) there's no reason not to get off now especially if my mental / physical health are deteriorating.
When is the last time you went on vacation? You have achieved a lot. You should be on the path to working less hours, right?
Agreed - a trip somewhere new can be a very nice reset and help you relax enough to put things in perspective
A month ago - it was relaxing while it lasted, but first day back was a nosedive straight into a 14 day stretch of 3ams. While the vacation was a good reset, it made me yearn for how much life has to offer outside of IB. What I'm struggling with is I'm not sure if it's just situation specific (understaffing, multiple ongoing deals coming to a head), or if I'm genuinely just fed up with the lifestyle.
I was in your spot near the end of my analyst stint. My mind was clouded all the time, and it just felt like I had no motivation for anything. Even after a week long vacation, I would come back even more in a haze. It had gotten to the point where I’m unable to fall asleep unless I just pass out from exhaustion very late at night or early into the morning.
I was just burnt out. I decided to stop working and take time to figure things out. It was pretty nerve wracking to make that decision, especially since some people on WSO make it seem that having a gap in your resume is the end of your career. But it was much needed and helped with my mental health significantly. Plenty of people both in the industry and outside take time off or quit to reevaluate things, and they bounce back just fine.
Ultimately, no one will know what is exactly right for you. You’re fully in control of your direction in life, and there’s no wrong decision. Even if you decide to backtrack or head in another direction or just take a pause, life’s long enough that you can always bounce back from it. At the same time, life’s also too short to be miserable.
IBD is full of people who used to have dreams and passion that just came into the industry for “a couple years” to make some money or to pay off their student debt and end up 20 years later married to banking due to a mortgage, 2.5 kids in NYC private schools, and a stay at home wife. You’re still young. Feel free to go try something else. Don’t worry about the boomers who might say that kids don’t want to work hard nowadays. You put in your dues, and you’re not really happy. Take some time to figure out what you want.
Worst case scenario, you can always come back. Maybe you have to do an MBA, but you’ll end up basically where you are right now, minus a couple years to go figure out your “what ifs.” That’s not much of a loss in a 30-40 year career.
Hey man,
Can relate. That’s all I gotta say. One thing that seems to work, for me at least, is that I am working towards a number. After that, may as well cash out.
Not sure if practically it’s a consideration and I’ll just leave the day I hit that NW but having some arbitrary number/goal to look at is enough to convince that’s not a hamster wheel.
I’m in a very similar situation as you. Been working in IB for 5 years as an A-A and have most recently been a top bucket @ a top firm. The way you get your life back is 1) refuse to do work below your level and if the junior team can’t handle the asks you need to raise the issue to the staffer and get better junior support (minimum a competent junior associate or top analyst) and manage upwards that the junior team isn’t capable / doesn’t have capacity and deadlines need to shift. Until you give yourself the time / space to focus on your new role, you will continue to suffer as you “play-down”. “Playing down” makes you likely feel as a team player, but it actually just burns you out and prevents you from focusing on your new role and improving your longevity. 2) Dedicate blocks of time on your work calendar to take care of yourself physically and socially and DO NOT BUDGE. I block off the gym 4 times a week for 45 minutes during work and have one to two 2-3 hour blocks for dates / social activities during the week that I do not budge for. Unless you protect your time and push back and refuse to cave, your team will continue to demand everything. 3) Be okay with not being a TOP performer, but rather a solid performer and position yourself politically to work mainly for “top / rainmaker MD’s” and focus on getting your life on track. You will still get promoted. You need to realize if you don’t PUT YOURSELF FIRST, then you will burn out and take a substantial pay cut vs if you prioritize by what I indicated above, you will still have a long career as a banker being a solid vs top performer and more lucrative career.
Don’t mean to hate on IB life too hard. Maybe it’s right for you. But I wouldn’t go back, not even for $1mm a year
Do you need to have IB experience for your current role?
Not OP, but also in real estate. It's doubtful that you *need* IB experience for the role, underwriting a real estate deal isn't terribly complicated, modeling-wise, and most people in the industry do not come from IB, but it definitely helps in highlighting your modeling skills and financial concept knowledge.
Agree on the above. You need to take responsibility for your life:
- Get decent sleep (which means managing your workload and leveraging junior resources)
- Exercise 2-3x per week minimum - make time for it and do it whether you feel like it or not. Would also advise doing some cardio at least 1x not just weightlifting
- Have some personal projects - start a new hobby
women ☕
Have you ever thought about taking a step back and moving to a different shop / more regional boutique? You said you don't mind banking so you can still do M&A / whatever group you were on just at a smaller scale and earn a decent living
I think the problem is you have no outside lifestyle, you said it yourself, you don’t go to the gym, you’ve lost your friends and are single. I would try getting a hobby, making cooking classes or something you like? And become friends with your old friends again. Working hard can be fun but you will feel the impacts when you come home to an empty apartment with nothing to do.
I have seen this situation before, and it sounds like you might be heading towards some sort of burnout/breakdown/crash/crisis scenario; where your body (or circumstances) will force you to stop.
I warn this, because I've seen several end up having a heart attack, or otherwise crashing in a major way -- and which might force unexpected time off, or end a career.
It's important to understand that you might be running at 110% for so long, that it could be dangerous... and that it's sadly so common within the industry, that most people don't even realize it, until it's too late.
I know it's easier said than done, but you need to find a way to step out/away, before you end up risking a health/medical issue in the process.
If you can... Perhaps try to get away for the weekend, to somewhere rural (or wilderness), put away devices, force yourself to just sleep as much as possible, and not do anything. Just clear your mind, and sleep; let yourself recharge.
If you are in NYC, go up to the Adirondack Mountains (upstate), and force yourself to do nothing... Nothing at all... It's harder than you might assume, after going so hard, for so long.
If possible, force yourself:
• Step away from everything (even a full day, or a weekend).
• Force yourself to do nothing... nothing at all.
• Don't think. Clear your mind, force yourself to not think.
• No device, no computer, no TV, no screen, no work, no calls, no communication with anyone.
• Do Nothing... absolutely nothing.
• Sleep... as much as possible.
• Nobody else, no interaction, let your mind unwind.
• Disappear.
• Breathe.
I did this a while back... and by disconnecting from all communication/interaction, and eliminating everything modern (no phone, screen, communication, etc); disappearing out of communication (no contact with anyone, just sleep, and not think... it actually helped to recharge more than expected.
Everyone felt like I disappeared for the weekend --- which is exactly what I did -- and it actually helped a lot to sleep, and recharge.
It might not solve the bigger picture, but it might recharge you enough, to continue forward with more clarity, and to avoid a potentially-serious crash/burnout scenario.
(I know someone quite young, who kept going, until he had a heart attack while on a work trip, almost didn't survive initially, and even tried to rush back to work... ultimately, his body forced him to stop entirely, with enough of a hard crash, that it prevented any possible return to that earlier pace. You must avoid getting to that point).
It's not easy, but it's necessary.
My last vacation was in Aug. 2020
but I take often 5-minute vacations on WSO hehe
I’m not currently able to take long vacations either. My next time off is around June 16, 2024 to see my nephew graduate college. My sister booked rooms for the family at a resort for $700 per night. I’m staying for two nights - it should be fun.
Sounds awful. What’s the point of money if you can’t even enjoy life?
Yeah I don't get posters like this....no job is worth the cost of everything else in your life. I would find something else ASAP where the hours are sub-60 per week and immediately get to work rebuilding the rest of my life (get fit, go on dates, visit friends, make new friends, etc)
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