Notre Dame vs. UVA
Notre Dame vs. UVA for political science
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collegeconfidential.com would probably do you better
UVA, no question.
What did you want to do after college? Notre dame is flexible in that you can transfer to its different schools, while for UVA, you have to test into Darden if you wanted to switch into business. I'm not sure about the poli sci education though.
Isn't UVA's UG BSchool McIntire?
Why would you come on this particular site and ask which school has a better political science program? Isn't there a kstreetoasis or something you could look at?
Very different schools. Both top 25 but neither are top 10, Notre Dame as a slight edge in rankings and (biased ND grad here) has the kind of network that is tough to beat. Some questions: 1) are you Catholic? 2) do you want to do banking (and if so, why are you majoring in poli sci?) 3) are you from the Midwest/ok with cold weather?
Hey! I was wondering what the financial aid is like at Notre Dame? I usually qualify for a lot of need based awards, however majority of my financial aid is from merit scholarships/grants.
Also how is the city like? I lived in New York City for 12 years, so I am a city girl. Are there any large cities (don't have to be metropolitan areas) near by and accessible via public transportation? And I am not worried about the cold, I actually like it much better. I deal with it rather well since I do come from Russia.
I am not a Catholic, but I am rather conservative, so I am sure that atmosphere would be good for me. I want to major in poli sci and economics, and probably pick up a minor too. I also would like to get involved in volunteering and TONS of student organizations. If jobs/internships are available that would be excellent.
I know Notre Dame offers a lot of flexibility when it comes to majors and minors. I really like that. I know they have tons of organizations and internship opportunities. All I am worried about is that I might get bored in South Bend and that it won't have such a variaety of course offerings as U.Va does in political science.
But on the plus side, Notre Dame has excellent alumni relations, so I am sure I will be able to land a job easily!
Do you want to practice politics in Chicago or Washington?
I think you've got your answer.
Notre Dame is a great school- it's got arguably the best undergraduate business program in the country, but I think UVA definitely scores a few points on the location.
Just to clarify. I am transferring from Syracuse University. I will be a junior. I do not intend to go into business, am just using my sister's account to ask your opinions. My major is political science and I would like to work in Washington when I am done.
Sending a PM now.
How does notre dame have arguably the best undergrad business program in the country ? Oh let me guess b/c business week ranked it high.
Exactly. And that's really just the beginning. Some of the smartest finance guys I've met are from Notre Dame. Also, their football team can probably kick your football team's butt.
Don't hire anyone from Notre Dame. In ten years, your entire office will be taken over by Notre Dame grads and everyone will want to watch their football games. They're almost as obnoxious as Nicks fans- kinda odd for a nice Catholic school.
So you believe BusinessWeek Rankings? Who put Wharton 4th? Notre Dame is #1 even though its Academic Quality rank is 19th?? I wouldn't trust any rankings much less those. I find it hard to believe that there are more people in finance from Notre Dame than Wharton, UVA, UMich, UCB, Duke etc. I know they place good in Chicago though, as it is a good school. I just don't think there is any way ND provides more opportunities than the schools said above. Who would choose ND over Wharton?
Although their team could kick my schools butt, that's not saying much. Notre Dame hasn't been a good football program in quite some time.
ND definitely isn't as good academically as Wharton. But hands down, ND beats UVA, Michigan, and Berkeley. Just look at U.S. News and World Report - ND is ranked higher than all of these schools. I honestly don't know why people don't recognize the fact that ND is a top 20 school. I think it's mostly due to the fact that it's midwest and Catholic. Remember that their grads, 10 to 20 years out of school, rank #7 in the country for highest earners. That's a testament to the power of their network and the true value of an education from ND.
As a side note, my brother chose ND over Wharton - accepted to both. He liked the atmosphere better at ND, didn't give a rats ass about pre-determined notions of rankings, didn't want any reason to be in downtown Philly, saw no reason to choose an Ivy league school for the sake of going to an Ivy league school, and so he chose ND. And he loved it.
Leaving syracuse? Don't like the jewish broads eh?
Hahaha SO true
Go to UVA. At the very least you will be warm for your remaining time at school. You are going to get shit for being an Orangeman at ND. Not that it should be a deciding factor, but UVA is the better choice.
Btw, at UVA don't do poli sci. They have a major called Politics, Philosophy, and Law which is a lot better IMO. Larry Sabato sucks.
notre dame if you're looking for a change of scenery from syracuse. UVA if you want a better place to go to school. i'm assuming the latter.
for the record neither of these schools have business schools that touch wharton, ross, etc.
How is ND a change of scenery. Both are as cold as shit and full of sports fans. After 2 years freezing ass in SYR you want some warm weather.
never been to syracuse's campus but im assuming the people are much different. i guess a lot of people do base decisions on what's physically around them but i never really give a shit. notre dame people are a lot different than east coast people
lol. I dont mind the cold weather and I was never an Orangeman to begin with. ;)
And BretEastonEllis the Politics, Philosophy, and Law major at UVa isn't for me because it is centered around law. But thank you. :)
The only reason why I have a bit of hesitation with Notre Dame is because it doesn't have as much variety in terms of courses in the poli sci department as UVa does. It defly has all the basics and such, but UVa has a lot more!!!
And to the person who commented about the jewish ppl ..lol to you. :)
Haha, why you leaving Syracuse if you don't mind me asking? I think outside of top Ivy's schools for Poli Sci are all the same. I mean what is your ultimate goal? Networking is huge for banking, but I would imagine in politics it is more about how active you are, the circles you associate with. If you do go to ND you will be exchanging a North East network for a more Midwest network. Not saying it is bad, just different depending on what you want to do.
Maxwell is kind of neglected at Syracuse. They have a phenomenal grad program though.
Maxwell for grad school is EXCELLENT! But I am an undergrad. Syracuse does not have the resources that I am looking for. I want access to internships, more challenging courses, and research opportunities. I found very little in SU. You are right tho, it is important to be active. And you also point to the networking thing, but I have an excellent plan to go about that hurdle. ;)
Thank you all for the comments. They were all appreciated.
How about for business? Mendoza vs. McIntire?
What's with all these college comparison threads all of a sudden?
Might be because it's spring....all of the college decisions are just coming in
Juice Cuse
I don't think ND beats Berkeley in Engineering. But it is a good school for recruiting.
Why would someone who wants to go to Wall Street study political science?
Yep, you were the only person to bring it up.
Is this actually serious...you want political science on the east coast...and you are debating between ND and UVa...
Notre Dame is a fine school but it is filled with kids who have no idea what they want to do after GOD COUNTRY NOTRE DAME. From the dozens and dozens I have talked to, SO many (freshman, sophomores, even juniors) are just focused on livin' the ND dream and going to school for 4 years and have no fucking clue what investment banking or anything else similar is. It isn't a midwestern thing because I go to school in the midwest and it's totally different. Trust me, I grew up in an ND family, it was one of my top choices, have spent a lot of time there, etc.
The business connection is not as strong as you think; this is something I researched heavily before deciding where to go. Yes they have a big alumni network but not in finance, at least not in BSD finance roles. Like small time, family run, ND-grads-only shit like that.
Oh and the rankings don't mean shit. ND is supposedly #1 because of their "ethics" courses. What the fuck does that mean? How about BB placement? Wharton 4th? Blow me.
Go to UVa.
Like I said, their alumni are all over the street, I know many friends who have gone there and they are most definitely a target, and if we're going by rankings that supposedly do mean shit (U.S. News and World Report), ND is ranked above UVA. You mean to tell me that UVA has a stronger connection to Wall Street than ND?? No freaking way.
As a side note, I'm not arguing that Wharton's connection isn't better. But the whole"ethics" thing is relevant because especially after the financial services industry has been vilified in the media, many F500 corporations especially have been looking to hire grads that have that "ethical" piece. They see ND and they see the focus on ethics and it's a plus especially for F500's, not necessarily for BBs though.
Yes, of course they have grads on the street, they aren't Southwestern Alabama State University. Out of any (good) school in the US I know more ND grads than anywhere else. Interesting because I was talking to my friend who goes to ND and he said their recruiting was shit this year. I also know about 10 recent ND b school grads, a couple went to mid market banks (one IBD one something else), one is in the peace corps (lol), the rest are working at no name shops. Nothing wrong with that, you cannot expect to have everyone working at Goldman. But none of my immidiate friends going BB, all very smart kids. ND students are smart, they're just, in my experience, a bit oblivious (I was talking to a junior yesterday about his classes and he didn't know how to make a fucking DCF). And of course plenty are victims of the terrible recruiting/job placement situation right now. But compared to other midwest schools, including Michigan/UChicago/Northwestern/WashU/Vanderbilt (is that midwest)?, it seems they aren't doing as well.
I'm not trying to diss ND at all. It's a great school. But there's something about the place that makes their students feel that getting into ND is the end all be all in life. Maybe it's just that great of a place.
Wharton's connection isnt just better compared to ND but to everyone else besides Harvard (I would put H above W). It isn't even fucking close. Whoever made that list probably got denied from UPenn.
Yes, the atmosphere is what does it.
There must be a large difference between classes then. My friend says he only knows a few kids with FT offers in New York right now. It's probably seasonal to an extent.
And no way ND has the second best job placement. Impossible. They are barely top 20, look at the schools above them, at least 15 must have better BB placement. Starting salary does not equal best CAREER placement (my school has higher starting salary anyways).
I think what we can glean from this is that ultimately, motivation and seeking information on your own is what determines who gets these offers and who doesn't. The "oblivious" factor weeds out plenty of kids a with good grades and such, at many schools not just Notre Dame, but they just have no idea how competitive the process is. My school isn't a huge target, we are a semi target (that is changing), but we do a great job of giving students the information and resources they need to get BB jobs. Starting the process early and learning as much as you can as a freshman and sophomore is, IMO, more important than GPA or networking-if you don't know what you're going for then what do your stats or connections even mean?
EDIT: I read your edit, now I know what you meant by best job/career placemet. And I know classes taken affects what you know but how can you be done with recruiting season as a junior and should have the most important internship of your life coming up and you don't know how to make a DCF.
Agree 100% about the importance of self-motivation.
Btw, I did remember when this came out - starting salary often means absolutely nothing, and Forbes compiled the median salaries 10-20 years out of school. Dartmouth tops the list, which makes sense to me (almost went there but turned it down), ND ranks number 8, directly behind UPenn. Goes to show you that even pre-determined notions of rankings and recruitment don't mean as much as one thinks they do in the long-run, and that ND does indeed do a stellar job of setting their students up for careers rather than jobs.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/30/college-salary-graduates-lead-cz_kb_07…
Way more UVa than ND guys on the street. That includes time in S&T and IB.
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