When I was 15-16 my goal was to one day make £50k p.a. (don't judge).
In uni, my goal was to land a grad scheme at a top firm.
Whilst working in MO at a tier 1 IB, my goal was to land a FO gig in PE.
Now I've ticked those off, I find myself dreaming up bigger goals.
Does anyone else feel like this? The constant desire for something better? Or do you feel satisfied and relaxed once you're acheived your pre-defined goals?
Yes, all the time. Dream of getting one thing, get it, and on to the next. Honestly, I don't what I'd do if I just stopped and said I was satisfied with what I had. It's not really how I think. That's not to say I'm not grateful, I am, but I'm not satisfied.
Then you never will be? Lol, I don’t know why you’re saying this like it’s a good thing. You will not find satisfaction in anything if you seek it externally.
It is a good thing. I’m grateful for the things I have but I’m not satisfied yet, I just haven’t gotten to the place I want to be. Both with the type of man I want to be and career wise. I’m not even close. Obviously, if I don’t get to where I want to be, I hope that I’ll be content but until then it’s constantly moving forward and not being satisfied.
yeah. its called the hedonic treadmill.
The only time I ever felt satisfied after accomplishing a goal was losing my virginity at 16. Something most posters on this site can't relate to
well played
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No, you never truly get satisfied, It's human nature. You get what you want and you find yourself wanting some more.
And why shouldn't you? Everyone likes progression.
Most people live their life with a very external orientation. 'What will my classmates think of me if', 'Wow, my girlfriend will probably', 'I couldn't afford to try that because then people will', and so on.
What's much less common is living with an internal frame of reference. Epictetus gave us a gem: "Freedom is secured not by the fulfilling of one's desires, but by the removal of desire."
I set all kinds of absurd goals for myself when I was younger. I have attained them. My sense (sometimes I dip into the hedge fund forum) is that there are few people on here with eight or nine-figure net worth. I would be interested in their take as well.
What life has taught me is that satisfaction comes from my relationship with myself. There is no set point when you'll feel comfortable. You could aim to earn $50m, through a lot of kind fortune and hard work hit that number, and realize it brought you no new feeling relative to the day before. Same goes for board work, philanthropy, political position, or any material possessions.
It's about your spirit. How do you invest in yourself? Are you progressing in graciousness, patience, kindness, generosity, or other traits that you feel are important?
When I was younger I wanted to buy a place, upgrade it, get a second home out of the city, furnish both extravagantly, and start spending on cars and trips and art and other toys. Along the journey I realized there's nothing that matters more than mastery of myself. All the external stuff is noise.
My goals now are not better things but better living.
Amusingly, it seems like better things manifest more once I made that switch.
Thank you for the perspective
I am sure there was a point where a younger you thought he had achieved everything, only for you to go on to set more ambitious goals.
How did you deal with 'plateaus' after big wins and losses of motivation on the journey? Any advice and/or books you'd recommend that would help a younger professional navigate those?
Have read all of the Stoics (you mentioned Epictetus) and I am slowly trying to realize a more internal frame of reference within myself, but it is.... a practice that needs to be cultivated- not something that is easy to switch overnight.
I am fortunate to have a handful of people in my life who truly know me. That exists because I have made myself known to them and labored to know them similarly. That takes vulnerability, command of yourself, patience, and trust.
The few times I've been truly low, each of them knows and in their own way works to pour into me such that my vessel fills back up.
For me, it's less about poor motivation after a setback and more abstract. Trauma from my past, frustration with something happening in the broader world, disappointment with human behavior (a business partner or colleague being avoidably stupid or perhaps proving to be unreliable, or worse, untrustworthy).
I don't have a magic answer for you. It's a journey. We're all on it, it just seems that few are aware of it. You've won the hardest battle (awareness). All you have to do now is keep fighting the war. It's a series of small battles day in and day out, minute to minute. You fight with yourself to practice mastery. Then you realize you aren't the enemy. You have to love yourself, and that love is the fuel that keeps you on the journey.
Here are a few books that come to mind.
really really really wish I could give more than 1 SB for posts like this, thanks bro.
and APAE, the people I know personally with net worths like that AND who feel mostly satisfied would agree with what you say.
throaway92 the stoic practice will take constant work, which is part of what makes it a good way to live. if it was easy to switch, it wouldn't be fulfilling, and while I cannot say with confidence I'm "there," as I don't believe anyone is truly "done" until they're dead, the work in trying to live by those values has improved my life meaningfully. what worked for me was systems over willpower. I am weak, and I believe most humans are weak. left to my own devices, I will succumb to suboptimal things, so I try to arrange my life in such a way that it's easy to be more stoic. happy to discuss more if interested (don't want to pollkute this thread though, so PM is probably better)
I noticed that as you crack eight-figure wealth events, the world becomes laughably small. There are few people who are in the same boat as you and thus know the same problems, do the same sorts of things, and look at the world through a similar enough prism.
Most people have an inaccurate grasp of this. Out of the total set of people worth that much, a significant portion already had it. They aren't continuing to generate that. They're reaping returns off of what was already generated, perhaps not even by them.
If you're earning $20m in performance fee distribution from a single asset, $60m from the sale of a business you set up, $15m from each startup investment because you're winging $3-5 into the Series C or D of great companies ... there are few people like you.
The shocking thing is how many of this narrow, narrow subset of people do not seem to be aware. You light up a flare and hope for a response, some kind of recognition, an ability to take the conversation deeper, and there's nothing.
I feel immensely grateful when it is reciprocated. Those are the people I like most to do business with. Just the interaction itself feels like the reward.
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This is a psychological process that is called the aspirational treadmill (Or Hedonic Treadmill).
It is very common especially for those who are high achievers.
When I achieve a major goal, after the initial happiness; I fall into a deep existential depression. (The worst instance of this was when I sourced my first 9 figure deal before even earning my degree)
To get around these deep depressive states; I have simply made goals for myself that are extremely difficult to achieve. Because I begin to question my existence and would contemplate self-harm. For this reason, I make these goals so difficult that I stand little to no chance of achieving them realistically. However, I will do anything in my power to achieve these goals. Because goals in my life symbolize my purpose. Is it a life worth living if you don't have a purpose?
Out of curiosity, would you mind sharing more details on how you sourced that deal? Or link me to another thread if you have explained that before :)
Geez - dude... that is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. I mean, it’s great that you continue to push yourself to achieve higher and higher goals but you should go on that search for meaning because right now you are just kicking the can down the road. There is always a “valley of despair” as you go on that search but as you keep unpacking things you will figure it out
Honestly don’t think I can be satisfied. As an example,
Got into the university but wanted to get into the honors business program which I applied to at the end of the freshman year (people can’t get into this at admission to uni. There’s always an app. process at the end of the freshman year).
Got into the business honors program but then started working towards getting into IB prep program.
Got into that program and started to work towards getting an IB internship
Spent 6-7 months recruiting but ended up with a top group. Now I am at the stage where I am just working on the next step. Here it’s about how can I maximise my performance to get a FT offer or take the offer to an even better place (a boutique perhaps).
I used to be pretty laid back in high school and idk what happened now but I am always on the grind for the next goal. Thus, I don’t think I’ll ever be satisfied which honestly isn’t good. I worry about the next step a lot and am always thinking about the future without living in the present.
I have a few years on you but I feel the same about looking more towards the future than living in the present. I used to be really good at that, but stuff changed, and now all I want is for things to go back to the way they were when things were simpler. Maybe this job isn't for me. Idk if any amount of money could fill the hole that missing out on life could leave.
I feel a bit of satisfaction but the fact is that your happiness, no matter how amazing a thing that happens to you, always returns to baseline. Victor Frankle talks about how every individual should have some amount of anxiety that represents the tension between who they are currently and who they want to be in the future and that this anxiety is a healthy part of existence. When you achieve some long-term goal, you lose a little bit of this tension so you feel some relief initially but then boredom after a while. The trick is to harness and direct that tension towards areas of your life that you want to improve. How to set good goals is a whole 'nother question but I think APAE speaks very well to that aspect.
It's Viktor Frankl... but yeah he is good.
lmao u right
This is true for all aspects of life. It's quite literally what pushes humanity forward. Happiness is always a fleeting feeling. It's a temporary reward your brain gives you to encourage you to undertake actions to chase that feeling.
Likewise, I wanted nothing more than to work in IB. At the end of my sophomore year of college, I had a 2.15 cumulative GPA and wasn't even in the business school at my non-target (or mayyybe outside semi-target. Well regarded flagship state school). I busted my ass to get my ass to get my cumulative GPA up to a 3.0 by graduation, got into a master's program. Did 5 total internships in FP&A and one in B4 audit (woof). Did tons more to build out my resume and collect accolades.... Well, I finally did it. Got the lateral offer to an IB Analyst role a couple weeks ago. 5 years of working towards something I never thought would happen.
... and today, my life isn't much different than it was prior. The initial excitement has worn off. Just the way the mind works.
To be fair I don't think many people remian excited about getting into IB once there job starts, too busy trying to get through the day lol.
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