I recently posted about how I want to start journaling more in the off-topic forum about my miscellaneous thoughts, so here's a shot at it. Hopefully there's some value or at least interesting content for those who read it.
For background, I'm an economics and philosophy double major with a minor in finance, and despite the obvious relevancy of econ/finance in my career path (IB), I'd argue that my education in philosophy has played a far greater role in my intellectual and personal development. I'm going to share some thoughts on what I see as one of the most profound topics in philosophy. If you can bear the philosophical explanation and jargon, I think there are some pretty valuable insights to be gained from the topic, which I'll do my best to articulate.
Determinism is basically the idea that everything in the world, all actions, experiences, thoughts, and interactions, are predetermined. For example, decisions we make are a (predictable) result of our external environment (stimuli) and our internal neurological/cognitive system (our brain, a collection of neurons, synapses, hormones, etc.) which is essentially a computer. Stimuli is inputted through our sensory organs, processed through our physical brain, and bam, decisions emerge, and actions take place. These actions then reshape the environment around us (for ourselves and others), in turn leading to an altered environment to serve as the input for our next decision (or the next decision of those around us). If it helps to have an image for this process, I basically picture the world as a closed system inside a massive snow globe, which began with a finite number of compounds and substance, experiencing a continuous chain of chemical reactions, each one leading to the next. Ever since the big bang, everything has just been one vast chain of "Cause-and-Effect", ramifying into a vast landscape of concurrent "Effects".
Hardcore determinists therefore arrive at the corollary that Free Will does not exist, since at no stage in the chain from stimuli to action do we really have control, as everything is just a product of environment and genetic/physical/neurological makeup. I'm not going to really dive into the radical claim that Free Will does not exist, since I'm not sure I could back that up. But, for me, determinism is really about understanding that when I look at the choices individuals make, it's important to recognize that factors outside of their control turned them into the person they are and created the environment they were in, ultimately leading them to make a certain decision.
So when people harm me, of course I FEEL hurt, and lose trust in them as an individual. But, I always try to take a step back and understand WHY they did what they did. And this means digging beyond just the basic motive ("they wanted my lunch money so they took it", "they think I'm ugly so they insulted my appearance"), and trying to really understand the deep, long-term circumstances that crafted a person into who they are. Maybe they grew up in a household where they were always judged overly harshly, and therefore, they've developed the belief that the normal way of treating others is to criticize. Or maybe they have an uncontrollable hormone imbalance or neurological condition/state (like mental illness, or addiction cravings) that was overpowering and led them to make a decision against their better judgment. Addiction is commonly referred to as a disease and is a good example of an internal but uncontrollable series of actions based largely on chemical and psychological forces that can overpower honest intention. Regardless of the wrongdoing I've been met with, even if I find potential reasons to excuse their actions and exonerate them of moral responsibility, it still makes sense to lose trust in people, since you're identifying a pattern based on their operating system of making decisions, not making a judgment about their quality or worth as a person. But losing trust is different than moral judgment. Because of determinism, I am one of the most forgiving people I've ever known. I think it's a strength, as I take harms in stride and live with internal peace, but I know I must remain vigilant so as to not be abused or manipulated by those seeking to capitalize on my forgiveness through repeat offenses.
One challenging implication of determinism is the other side of the coin: Although we are not morally responsible for our flaws and wrongdoings, we also cannot take credit for our strengths and accomplishments, since they were predetermined by our environment and biological makeup as well. Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers", although not explicitly referencing "determinism", basically describes this exact claim, and how both failures and successes (even acclaimed geniuses or superstars) are really just the product of their environment. They're "lucky". I'm not going to ramble too much about this, because the logic is basically exactly the same as the above argument, but if anyone wants to engage in dialogue about this, I'd be happy to. And I don't mean to insult or devalue anyone's accomplishments; rather, it's important to have some humility and recognize the things we were blessed with that allowed us to get where we are. Healthy and supportive family household that gave you the means to go to a great college? Or maybe a rough, poor household, but one where early on you learned the value of hustle, hard-work and grit? Born with a brain packed with raw intelligence or social savvy? The list goes on and on.
I understand that not everyone will agree with the true existence of determinism, and honestly, I'm not even sure I do. But I hope that by reading these thoughts, or preferably, doing some other reading on the subject by people far more articulate than myself, you can take some time to reflect on how you perceive the actions of others, and to stop and ask yourself why we as humans do the things we do. You might be surprised at some of the things you can intuit about others (and yourself!) when you stop and think about what made them into the person they are today.
At the end of the day, I have come to realize that all I can do is face the wrongdoings of others with grace, and live as the best person I can be, hoping that by extending positivity into the environment around me, I can shift the deterministic environment in a direction to inspire kindness and positivity from others as they navigate their own decision-making process.
I welcome intellectual discussion/argument about the validity of the broader theory or any of my claims, as well as responses or personal takes on the topic. Thank you for taking the time to read some of my pent up thoughts.
thebrofessor
kellycriterion
IBWriterMachine
Figured I'd tag you three since you expressed interest in reading some of my rambles on my last post, "Best platform to rant about topics of interest". I know it's not finance stuff, but hopefully it's at least somewhat interesting.
I have nothing to add other than I'm impressed you've discovered those things at this age, it took me about a decade longer. keep up the journey my friend, and I completely share the ideas about humility, forgiveness, not judging others for being negative (because maybe they grew up in a literal disaster of a home).
I don't have evidence to disagree with hardcore determinists, but I disagree with the implication it gives. well it's all predetermined, so why do anything? why try? I know you didn't say that, but I believe that's the problem with nihilists to some extent. let's say one believes there's no free will, is that a knowable thing? if knowable, is it provable? I don't think both of those can be answered affirmatively, so that means there's always a shred of doubt about free will. and if there is free will, wouldn't it be interesting to see where that takes you? worst case scenario is there's no free will and therefore I'll end up in the same place as I always would've anyway, or in other words, it will be no worse or better based upon my actions.
HOWEVER, if there is a shred of free will that governs one's life outcomes, why not give it a try? it feels very fatalistic to just say "well because of this, there's no point in anything." and yeah, I could agree with that because in the grand scheme of things, nothing really matters at all. we're one tiny speck of a tiny planet whirling around the universe, but within my tiny speck I have real relationships, real people, and regardless of whether or not the universe ascribes meaning to that, I sure as shit do, so I'd rather try to have a good time with the time I've got than resign myself to a mentality with literally no solution or positive outcome aside from being proven right when we all die. better to have tried and failed than never have tried at all.
First of all, thanks for the tag and tipping me off. I’m a hardcore determinist myself (as much or more than you are), so I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t know if you were approaching all of this from a secular angle, but in my view, your thesis is encapsulated in the phrase “there but for the grace of God go I,” which is one of my core credos. If you did well, it was because natural laws determined that. If you do poorly, it’s because natural laws did it too. I don’t agree with Dave Ramsey on everything either, but when people ask him how he’s doing, he says “better than I deserve,” which is a deterministic Christian thing to say too. I like this way of thinking, although I think that phrase would be a bit too hollowly pious for everyday use.
This post could give some color on what some major posters think (https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/does-free-will-exist?amp).
I think determinism is a very easy philosophy to believe for people whose life has been in a straight line. For example, your parents worked on Wall Street, you went to the best schools in NYC, and wow now you work on Wall Street. Seems like everything is pre-determined right?
I think it's very difficult to believe in determinism if your life zigs and zags. For example, I worked in politics early in my career and then switched to IB and a few other jumps since. I've lived in multiple cities across the country yet all my relatives have likely not left a 100 square mile area and none work in finance. As I mentioned in a recent post, I also self-published a novel about investment banking (not sure how many people have done that. Maybe a dozen. Such a strange twist.) Was that all pre-determined? It's just seems too strange.
Speaking of the novel, art itself throws a wretch into determinism. Was the novel that I wrote written exactly as I wrote it word for word on the day that I was born? Just doesn't make sense to me. Not to compare myself to these great artists but did Picasso and Van Gogh just do what they did with no volition of their own. Sure, they may have been naturally good artists, but the argument that the creation of unique and creative art does not come from free will just flatly does not make sense in my opinon .
I don't disagree that someone might be more inclined to write something, but the creative process is what creates the complications.
For example, I edited my book ten times over which many parts of the book changed. So my neurotransmitters fired off and wrote the first draft....but they were wrong. Then, they fired off to write a second draft correcting what they had fired off the first time which should have been a predetermined fully written book at my birth. Repeat ten more times. If everything is predetermined, it complicates it if you're willfully editing and changing what your neurotransmitters were firing off. You could go into the absurdity that even the number of changes was predetermined and even mistakes were predetermined but at that point, you're just going down a very improbable rabbit hole.
I don’t really see how that makes it improbable. I could argue the same thing for free will. Free will is basically “you-ness” and your distinctive way of choosing things. Why would you write something ten different ways? Why couldn’t you just have written it the first way if that’s really you doing the choosing? Otherwise it seems like you’re being dragged along by the vagaries of your environment, the people with whom you interact, and your chemical and genetic environment. Change doesn’t make natural laws any less likely as a causal source, nor any less believable.
Yes, improbable. What is more probable?
Beings exist with free will who are free to make artwork from their imagination or every single piece of artwork ever was predetermined? The latter just seems like a much less probable explanation of the world around us.
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