Q: Law vs. finance? A: Law just fucking sucks.
I believe I commented on so many law/law school posts, but they keep coming and coming. So let's put at rest this discussion---
If you really enjoy staying in an office or cubicle staring at 50 documents to find some differences in wording and point out to the client how 24 documents differ from the rest 26 because they allow you to cancel the contract for ABC reason and the other 26 only for AB reason, then you would be a great fit (expect this to take some hours).
If you enjoy gathering 300 documents from your database and organizing them in different folders to send to the client, then it's for you.
If you enjoy billing 3,200 hours = 3,200 hours of literally sitting staring at documents, then go for it. At least, in the business side, you can sit 7 hours in a meeting room listening to some bullshit material and that still counts as work.
If you expect being Martin Lipton reading a Supreme Court case and, while staring through the window, plotting the Poison Pill 2.0 and "cooking" the next defense for activist investors, then I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that's fiction. Your reality, for 10–15 years, would be organizing documents (secretary work), and going back and forth for 10 hours with another lawyer because you can't agree if in the following sentence: "The contract will be modified by both parties, upon common agreement, in cases ABCDEFGH, but in case H it can only be modified only if the party has reasonable reasons" - whether it should say "reasonable reasons" or "materially reasonable reasons".
I get it, it's extremely cool when a lawyer comes to you and tells you that you can do ABC but for D you may need XYZ documents and approvals. But that’s only relevant if you want to be a solo lawyer dealing mostly with average citizens, where pay may not be as great. If you're thinking of BigLaw, the business side already knows everything and everything was already negotiated. You're just drafting papers and doing some legal formalities that in 98% of cases no one even bothers to read. The 2% of cases where people do read them? That's litigation, and it's probably just to sue. So maybe litigation is more interesting than transactional work, but as you're reading this on WSO, I assume you care about business, and transactional lawyers are the ones supposedly covering the "business side" of law.
Also, it's interesting when you understand the law and solve your own needs (can do it with Chat GPT nowadays). But when you do all this work and see someone else reaping the profits, you start to question your self-worth. Am I a lawyer or just a bitch/a means to an end for someone else?
Deep inside, no one gives a fuck about your personality, about your interest in other fields, your business sense, or your networking skills. You can be an autistic awkward communist weighing 350 lbs - if you’re the best lawyer in your market, people will come to you. Lawyers are picked based on their technical skills and nothing else. If you think you’d make a great opportunity seeker, have entrepreneurial instincts, or strategic insights - I’m sorry to disappoint you, but no one gives a fuck
It’s slavery work at its core - but hey, put on a suit, walk past a KFC, and you’ll feel better. That’s how most lawyers cope with the crushing reality that they’re glorified secretaries pushing paper for someone else’s upside.
Lawyers need to act like they’re doing important, intellectually stimulating work. Otherwise, how would you justify the debt, the effort, and the years of your life wasted just to end up arguing about comma placement in a boilerplate clause? That desperate need to convince the world that law is prestigious, that’s the only drop of joy many lawyers have left. If they become self-aware about where they actually stand in the value chain, that’s when the drugs, alcohol, social approval, etc. kicks in
Law school is not a swiss knife. You don’t enjoy it after 3 years? Too bad. Your skills are useless elsewhere. There’s no optionality. Billing hours in BigLaw is hell. If you wake up in your second year hating law, good luck. Your only exit is in-house counsel - a role in which you're seen as a cost center. And funny enough, lawyers compete for in-house jobs like it's the NFL draft.
All your life, you’ll have no decision-making power. You’ll push paper and sit at the kids' table while the business people, the ones who actually move the needle, take all the upside. Any time you try to offer advice on the business itself, you’ll be told to “stick to legal.” Your only chance of escape would be an MBA. So enjoy coughing up another $500k+ in opportunity cost after already torching time and money on your JD.
If you’re smart enough to get into law school, you’re smart enough to make it in business or finance. And believe me, you’ll look around in BigLaw and realize your classmates don’t even know the difference between revenue and net income, which, sure, makes you the most commercial-savvy one there, but it also makes the whole thing depressing. These people ask if Texas Pacific Group is a commercial bank. You’ll be the smartest in the room, and also the one with the most wasted potential among liberal people with unemployable undergraduates who can't calculate some basic percentages (heard about a situation firsthand where a lawyer seemed skeptical about some calculations done by an associate despite using =sum in Excel, and said to re-do the calcs - that's just the math level on the other side).
I genuinely feel sorry for the brilliant legal minds who went to Harvard or Yale only to end up proofreading 200-page agreements and sending redlines to partners who only reply to tell your work sucks (need to perform and deliver 100% perfection all the time). These are people who could have reshaped institutions or built something great. Instead, they’re stuck debating whether Section 7.3 should use “substantial” or “material.” On top of this, there are no management skills in law firms. You bill for 14 hours, go home sleep deprived, and the next day you're expected to perform again at 100% sharpness to do the most mindless work over and over again (let's see how much you tolerate it after 2-3 weeks). There is no "light at the end of the tunnel" which would make you at least tolerate it some years thinking that there's something better awaiting after that (i.e., like IB 2-years and out approach).
Your entire work as well rewards a pessimistic outlook. You're paid to catch anything that is off/mistakes. This becomes so ingrained in your character, that you become extremely critical of minor points outside of your work which makes you overall miserable and your outlook to things very procedural oriented (not many lawyers doing entrepreneurship because of this trait). More so, you don't develop any other sort of skills outside of legal research and legal writing: Presentation/social/maths/business/analytical skills, etc. Legal research and legal writing - that's all you'll do for +10/20/30 years. So congrats, you pigeonholed yourself.
If you want to read an even more depressive view of biglaw and make up your mind search up the "So you want to be a NY Corporate Associate" in Google and click on the link from the legal forum (TLS). The guy is a top 5 economics undegrad + HLS and wakes up everyday questioning his life. It's an old post. He was probably at Skadden/Cravath, which would be the equivalent of a bulge bracket on the legal side.
Yeah law is super boring. LSAT is fun. Tried studying for California bar exam and had to quit because it was the most boring thing I have ever encountered in my life.
Thank you.
There are kids on this forum posting shit like "its easier to become a biglaw partner than an IBD MD," or they are just looking at the comp of 7th-8th year associates and think its a better deal than banking or PE. And it 100% comes from this inherent superiority that finance types have "oh if I could do finance I could 100% do corporate law"
I did one year of law school, after years of thinking its something I'd be interested in, and I very, very quickly realized that I had an idealized version of what being a "corporate lawyer" meant. That my time in investment research/investment management would give me a holistic view of businesses (it did), which would serve me well as a transactional attorney. My 1L summer internship was in house at a F500 company, and boy let me tell you how little that "holistic view of businesses" made me better at the actual work. But what it did do, 100% for sure, was make the work I was doing seem even more tedious and uninteresting.
Cost wise, law school tuition has gotten so crazy, it's pretty much the same cost as business school. At schools like Columbia, its actually cheaper to go to Columbia Business for two years than Columbia Law for three years, and the wide variety of outcomes you could enjoy out of CBS (except PE if you hadn't done PE before CBS) makes it so much better of a value proposition from sticker price.
Also there's a lot of doom and gloom about AI job replacement risk going on. Biglaw associates have so much more to worry about on that front, as it is very easy to just point to how the basic ChatGPT (or any other AI model that individual consumers can use) works and see how that could replace them (any instructions a partner gives to a junior associate on a document can instead be given to ChatGPT and they'd turn the comments quicker).
Also one more point, the most common "exit opp" for biglaw corporate associates is going in-house, where for the rest of their career they won't see yearly comp that exceeds what they make as a 3rd year associate.
the funniest part about law exits is that when bankers think about exits, the options are jobs with greater upside, more intellectual work and better pay. But for law, it's the exact opposite.
That being said, law is not a bad career, at all. But you have to sacrifice YEARS to get that fat tail end of any career.
Just one question, shouldn't two years of professional education be cheaper than three years of professional education?
And with law you get pigeonholed in law so that sucks too.
Anyone who has actually interacted with lawyers professionally already knows this. College kids (including me, when I was in college) idealize law school because legal dramas are a staple of TV and movies and the profession has middle class clout along the lines of being a doctor or an engineer.
Real lawyers, especially corporate lawyers, lead absolutely miserable lives. I genuinely feel bad for ours when they turn a document, that I'm not even going to read for two days, around at 11:50pm after putting their kids to bed instead of having a life.
It's funny that shows like Law and Order and Suits make law look so glamorous. Really they are highlighting the 1% of times during the show. The other 99% of law in the real world is too boring to put on TV. Reading tons and tons of documents to find a key phrase or two.
This observation generalizes to many professions. We have a broader problem that young people often select professions based on they way they're portrayed in the media or on whether the academic training for those professions interests them. But there's no forcing function that aligns those things with the actual experience of work in the professions. Media is entertainment and school is school, not work. Professors generally teach because they don't actually want to work in the fields they train their students to enter.
By the time people realize the truth, they've often sunk years of their lives and massive tuition and opportunity costs into their chosen career tracks, making it difficult to pivot.
We need a better way to give young people early, direct exposure to professions, so that they understand what they're actually signing up for before they make huge investments.
I love reading dense, complicated shit for fun but holy moly does law absolutely blow. Everything is so grey and toneless. History/historical context is one thing but pure law text is instant brain fog. Tried to force myself to major in it because of the optionality but the popular portrayal is so asynchronous it's actually wild. It's probably going to be quite different with AI in the future but Jesus, I like to joke about lawyers as much as the next guy but boy are they earning those dollars. The peak definition of trading skilled time for money, and it would indeed take 10x+ what that guy's doing it for vs what I'd force you to pay me just to learn it reluctantly.
Lawyers have such a different outlook, bankers try and get the deal done whereas lawyers look to the downside. I’ve dealt with so many attorneys only 2 or 3 had real “commercial” sense. Corporate BigLaw seems miserable, I look at them pulling together a POS/Appendix A/OS and that is the most boring part of any muni bond deal.
An overly bitter view of the legal world. As a lawyer, I do not hate it (of course, I have days, as any professional, when I think the grass is greener on the other side). And I am in an uncool EU country (for many outside of the EU even unknown mostly) where compensations are not even close to the UK or the US.
First, I agree that it might be boring part of the time. But neither is model building the pleasure 24/7.
Yes, mostly law limits you in migration, exit opportunities and compensation, and also professional deformation might make you extremely risk averse.
But, you still can learn a lot if you want and have the drive. Either besides work or even in the work itself, if you have open eyes, curiosity for business (or anything else), and normal soft skills. And even though everything is standardized, you are part of negotiations, not every part wants to have every clause of the standardized agreement, so you think about how it will affect the business in the real world if you change those words.
Just a side note. Not all of us had all the information in the 90s in Europe, nor a privileged background to have a network to tell us what to do and not to do. Born with a “useless” language and needed to learn English in an environment that was anything but helpful. So what should I do if the OP is right? Take a time machine and use what I know now? Should I scold my parents for doing their best there and then? Whine all my life that I should have had more luck with environment, time, and geographical location? I just did my best, found an enjoyable part, and live happy life still. There are still billions of people having it substantially worse.
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