Summer courses vs. IB internship
Hi guys, rising junior at a non-target (top 50 UG B-school). I'm interning at an IBaB in a shadow IB rotational program for a month or two this summer (sophomore). My grades are OK at best, but going into recruiting I'll most likely have a ~3.4/3.5 cumulative GPA and a 3.7 or 3.8 in my double major (finance and stats). I can take two classes this summer which may boost my GPA a bit higher, but that's at the risk I'd be taking courses DURING said IB internship. The summer courses are naturally easier, but this would be with an internship where I'm commuting and working decently long hours.
Do I eat the GPA and continue to try and network or should I try and bulk up on some classes during my internship to bolster the GPA a bit higher heading into recruiting this summer/fall?
I say focus on networking and studying for technicals. Will be more helpful than boosting your GPA by 0.1, in my opinion.
I also agree that networking and learning technical skills are more important than a slight GPA boost.
Wouldn't even consider the classes unless they would 100% boost your GPA to 3.5 (the GPA cutoff at most banks), and even then, I'd prioritize the internship.
Sophomore internship or classes to boost GPA? (Originally Posted: 02/20/2017)
Hi everyone! I'm currently a sophomore at a target school with a 3.35 GPA looking to weigh my options this upcoming summer. My options this summer are to: 1) Keep my part-time job as an office assistant at a nonprofit and take summer classes to boost my GPA to a 3.5+ (my role is non-finance related) OR 2) Get an internship in finance/accounting likely in a purchasing (A/P, A/R) or local wealth management firm if I'm lucky.
Basically I'm wondering whether a GPA boost to 3.5+ or a finance/accounting internship (though likely in a low-level role that is not very relevant to ER/AM) will benefit me more
I plan to pursue a career in equity research/Asset Management and will be networking during the summer either way.
Thanks for the advice guys.
I should specify, it's not so much a matter of one or the other, but between doing an internship AND classes OR just solely focusing on the internship.
Go with focusing on just the internship.
Or option 3) Network your ass off.
Trust me, GPA or shmee-pee-A, networking can go a long way. A friend of mine spent his entire summer networking with bankers and ER analysts, ended up landing a position at a BB as an SA with a 3.3 GPA. I am pretty sure he met over 50 professionals during the summer.
Graduating senior here. Would recommend internship over summer classes. A guy in an upper MM told me about the GPA cutline he knows: banks will look at your majors and decide a cutline (at least in his bank). It's not fair to say that a marketing major (no offense) 3.5 GPA is equivalently to a math major 3.5 GPA. Math is just a harder major. Get more internship experiences.
Summer Classes (GPA) or Internship? for SA BB IBD Recruiting (Originally Posted: 12/18/2012)
Situation: Grades confirmed already for this term. Effed up the finals. Mediocre GPA - (Cumulative) 3.5+, but not high enough for solid BB IBD recruiting (3.7+). This year, its pretty evident that everyone that gets an interview are 3.7+ at my semi-target.
If i do take summer classes, I can fulfill requirements and raise GPA.
I have a couple work experiences on both sell and buyside. Did gigs doing IBD and also another gig doing buyside (no-name PE). Resume shows interest.
The main problem is would they want a:
1) 3.7+ with existing work experience? (they might question me on what i did for the sophomore summer OR 2) a 3.5-3.6 with the already existing work experience AND the sophomore summer work experience.
And also, I know there will be advice on networking, but hoping to have views on NETWORKING ASIDE (if i did 0 networking)
Would appreciate any advice.
tough call - two different types of risk but I'd personally go for an internship because an internship becomes a network. Summer school also potentially signal the things you mention - why cant you muscle another class during the semester instead?
GL
tough call - two different types of risk but I'd personally go for an internship because an internship becomes a network. Summer school also potentially signal the things you mention - why cant you muscle another class during the semester instead?
GL
tough call - two different types of risk but I'd personally go for an internship because an internship becomes a network. Summer school also potentially signal the things you mention - why cant you muscle another class during the semester instead?
GL
I'm confused here on how another internship can become a network? Sure if i might want to go back there for FT. But not really if im aiming for BBs.
Im planning to take max credits next semester.
What did you do on these internships? Did you just use a proprietary database to find M&A candidates? Or, did you build/update financial models, help with PBooks/presentation materials? If you did something meaningful with a 3.5, I am sure you will get first round interviews. When is the deadline for summer course registration?
I have a few weeks to consider doing summer courses. My past work experience i would say are in-between. didnt go all out and build financial models, but learnt a decent amount of stuff. got to work on some deals (research, DD, PBooks , offering memorandums, etc).
Its just that even if i did get another summer internship and scratch plans for summer courses, i wont know how meaningful and how much i can learn from it.
I would think another internship would outweigh a mere .2 on your GPA. Honestly, in my opinion I would think it would outweigh it by a landslide if it was a strong internship. Are you not applying to SA positions?
im a sophomore right now. So i got one more summer before applications for SA. but tbh, i kinda think a .2 is pretty big. If i have a IBD internship, a PE internship, would another internship really add that much value? Sure if i have a BB or even top tier MM internship, i would hands down go with the internship. But thats kind of hard to get with my grades.
This makes no sense.
How so?
Any more thoughts guys?
How so?
Any more thoughts guys?
If you have done a PE internship and a banking internship and you have a 3.5 and you can't get a banking internship for this summer, the issue is not your grades "." end of discussion.
Take the internship and forget about these summer classes. Make sure to list your GPA on your resume IN ADDITION TO your overall GPA. Keep networking.
Transfer Summer Classes vs Internship - Applying to many schools (Originally Posted: 10/18/2012)
I'm going to be applying to transfer from my current school and a weak social life is a huge part of my decision. I have a strong academic record, test scores and set of non finance extracurriculars so getting into a semi target business school at least like a Stern shouldn't be difficult. That being said I am applying to more "fun schools" than Stern and want to join a frat asap as a junior transfer. This is extremely important to me as I missed out on a lot of the social aspect of high school in order to get into a top university w/financial aid.
Many of the MM banks recruiting on campus at my school (open to sophomores) require a May through August internship and I have a great shot of getting into one due to my GPA and decent past finance experiences. They are names that will certainly position me well for getting a BX, GS, MS type offer after I transfer into a target school.
However, I am also considering taking classes over the summer at the school I transfer into in order to establish a GPA prior to junior recruiting and in order to lighten my fall course load in a significant manner so that I can join maybe a regular frat and a business frat in the same semester. I could also work out, improve my squash and golf skills and have a great summer. This coming spring, I will be able to put down "Investment Banking Summer Intern" on my resume because I could intern at a small boutique in my last semester.
Question is: Should I go for the MM IBD internship May - August and then transfer into a target school or should I take classes over the summer in order to establish myself and in order to make friends before the fall which could lessen my stress and could allow me to network better. Please remember take into account the no name spring ibd experience I could also do so that I won't be going into junior ibd interviews cold turkey with only a PWM internship.
this is the best advice, no way will you have time to focus on your classes during the internship.
Don't take summer classes. Few kids do that, so it's not like you're going to be making friends off the bat. Wait until the fall to get a handle on the campus; do the internship.
Also, good luck rushing a fraternity as a junior.
I just transferred universities, and I would personally recommend doing the banking internship. The only downfall is you won't have a GPA for recruiting, and you have to work extremely hard to keep a strong GPA.
I also have a question if anyone can answer (this can also relate to you, Hopkins55):
If I get a mediocre GPA such as 3.2 or 3.3 my first semester (hardest semsester) at my new university, will that hurt my chances of getting an interview even if my previous university's GPA is around the 3.8-3.9?
Will that matter as much, since I had a banking internship this summer at a boutique? I only know a handful of people in my class who did banking sophomore summer.
I just transferred universities, and I would personally recommend doing the banking internship. The only downfall is you won't have a GPA for recruiting, and you have to work extremely hard to keep a strong GPA.
I also have a question if anyone can answer (this can also relate to you, Hopkins55):
If I get a mediocre GPA such as 3.2 or 3.3 my first semester (hardest semsester) at my new university, will that hurt my chances of getting an interview even if my previous university's GPA is around the 3.8-3.9?
Will that matter as much, since I had a banking internship this summer at a boutique? I only know a handful of people in my class who did banking sophomore summer.
bump
do the internship, take an easy courseload in the fall and get a 4.0. Double up in later semester. GPA doesn't matter after your 2nd semester junior year anyway for FT recruiting.
Resume reviewers will also give people with directly relevant experience a bit of a bump up into the interviews even with a slightly lower GPA over some kid with a 3.8 who only worked at something not relevant.
Human resources internship or summer classes (Originally Posted: 04/10/2014)
Hello WSO,
I am a rising junior at a Non-Target majoring in Economics and minoring in Math (want to get into S&T or Risk next summer as an SA)
Here is my dilemma, i have an interview for a Human resources internship at a F50 company's (think along the lines of United Technologies) subsidiary that according to the HR rep will "brush upon finance and accounting" or do i take summer classes that would bump my math minor into a math double major by taking Calculus II and C programming.
Thanks, Baseball305
Summer classes are useless, get an internship
Do the internship. Getting the experience working around the office in a corporate environment is good. Extra classes mean very little (unless they are easy and will significantly bump your GPA, this is assuming you have a fairly low GPA, which guessing you don't).
This depends strictly on GPA, IMO. If your GPA is low, take the summer classes and you must get good grades. If you goal is S&T, then an internship in the HR division of a non financial services firm will not do much... You can probably spin it as a positive by working in a corp environment, being exposed to different functions of the business etc. But if a higher GPA is the end result, I would take that route.
some summer classes isnt going to help his gpa much at this point (if that is the case). A f50 internship will help your SA recruiting (especially if it is in the same city you want to network).
Thank you guys for the responses
My GPA after this semester should be around a 3.5-3.65 so i am not to worried about taking the classes to bump my GPA.
And this would potentially be my second internship, my first was a back office IT role at Bain Capital
And any tips on IB BB S&T and Risk recruiting for next summer
Non-sense. The HR internship is 1) Unpreftigious and 2) Useless for S&T.
Take the courses.
SonnyZH- thank you but can you elaborate on your advice (mainly the unpreftigious part)
thanks
You've already worked in backoffice, you don't want to keep staining your resume with these experiences.
HR work is bullshit, you're not going to learn anything relevant for S&T recruiting. As a matter of fact it could even hurt your chances. You might as well take that course, boost your GPA and learn on your own, I guarantee this is the better option.
For your HR internship, will there be opportunities to perhaps get involved in more financial type of responsibilities? Also, isn't there a big communications aspect to HR that could be leveraged as sales experience?
I tend to agree that a lot of people may be turned away from the "HR" title, but if you spin it the right way (job title and responsibilities) you could make it work. Also, if you do a good job in HR with this company could you leverage that to something more directly finance related with the company the next year and then ultimately look for S&T full-time?
Take summer courses or do internships? (Originally Posted: 12/18/2012)
Hello,
I wanted to reach out and ask some of you guys what you think of my situation I am a freshman that has good connections in Private equity, hedge funds and Ibanking and will be able to get an internship at the end of this year over the summer. I go to a target school. However, some of the classes I am going to need to take are really hard (super low pass rates and such). I was thinking of taking them over the summer this year at another school and taking them out of the equation to eliminate any risk.
Is is better if I just take the summer to do all of these Weed out courses over the summer and not worry about an internship? or should I jump on the internship and try really hard next year in these classes.
Let me know
Do not worry about the internship this summer.
One of my key pieces of advice to new students (work as a peer mentor for new business students each year at my university) is to take classes in the summer after freshman year. Summer classes are much easier, which really doesn't make sense and isn't all that fair. I took a notoriously hard corp. fin. class this past summer during May term and got an A-, which allowed me to take 4 classes in the fall so I could do an internship.
So take the classes! And start "nurturing" your connections so you have them down pat when time comes for the internship.
As long as your GPA stays above 3.5, you're pretty much set for life. If you need to take the classes for that, then so be it.
Normally I would say take the internship. But since you are a freshman, you have time and you need to build a solid base for GPA for OCR, Plus taking one less class will allow you to crush your other classes in the fall. I would see if your connections would allow you to intern during your Winter break.
Fall Semester Internship or Programming class (Originally Posted: 08/14/2012)
Hey so I was wondering if anybody could help me with this dilemma. I'm going to be a junior and I'm very interested in trading and hoping to land an internship with a BB next summer (like every college student on this site). Unfortunately, I have no prior trading experience and the internship that I had this summer was a consulting internship that dealt with qualitative research for finance firms. Also, this is my only relevant work experience since I took summer classes after my freshman year. So I've began applying for internships for this fall, however due to my location, they won't be in trading but what I am thinking is that it'll at least be work experience. So far I have interviews for Northwestern mutual and a PWM firm and the other places where i've applied to are similar.
Now, I decided last spring (a tad late I guess. I wanted to do banking beforehand until I realized how much I would hate it) that I would absolutely love to go into trading and after doing hours and hours of research, I realized how important programming skills are. So I wanted to take an intro programming course this fall and around 2 more before graduation since I have absolutely zero experience in programming. However,the programming class is supposed to be kind of difficult, and even worse, extremely and notoriously time-consuming. Therefore, if I decide to do an internship, I would not take the programming class because i believe it would be too much since I want to have a kick-ass Gpa this semester and I also have various time-consuming EC's.
So my question is-->Should I do a non-trading related internship or take a programming course?
Someone could correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that knowing programming will help more so with prop-trading/market-making firms than with BBs and that BBs value more overall intelligence and leadership experience. Also, I was able to make it last year to the superday for sophomores at Goldman for S&T )obviously I didn't get the offer) and it seemed during my interviews that they were way more interested in my leadership experiences and passion for markets than any technical skills. However I guess it could be because the internship also included sales (which I realized after this summer that I absolutely do not want to do) and bc I was only a sophomore. This kind of brings up another point. I feel that my past experiences, especially if I get a job at a place like Northwestern Mutual or a PWM firm, my personality (which they will see in an interview),involvement in my schools rugby team, coursework, and leadership experiences basically SCREAM out sales. Like I mentioned above, I would hate sales and would give my left nut to do trading. Therefore, I feel that programming would give me something that would make me look more like a trader.
Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!
I think you should be worrying about networking, not about a programming class. If you have zero programming experience, one course is not going to make you stand out in my opinion.
Do you go to a target? If so carry on.
Yea I do go to a target. What do you mean by carry on?
I meant, that it matters much less if you do one or the other.
If you want to go Prop, you WILL need programming, as their are very very little "discretionary" shops out there anymore. Almost all of them require knowledge of programming so you can speak to the developers like you know what you are talking about, and the stuff that is really important, the low latency multi-threading memory management blah blah blah is not taught in any CS101 type course that I am familiar with. It usually would be in the 3rd or 4th CS course you take...so just be warned of that.
yea, gotcha. I mean I know that a class or two wouldn't make me that proficient, but I figured that it'll give me at least a solid background. I was also thinking of just buying some books and picking up some programming myself. Thanks for the response by the way
Were most prop traders comp sci majors or minors in college or did they just learn programming on their own?
Transfer Summer Classes vs Internship - Should I got for the MM internship? (Originally Posted: 10/18/2012)
I'm going to be applying to transfer from my current school and a weak social life is a huge part of my decision. I have a strong academic record, test scores and set of non finance extracurriculars so getting into a semi target business school at least like a Stern shouldn't be difficult. That being said I am applying to more "fun schools" than Stern and want to join a frat asap as a junior transfer. This is extremely important to me as I missed out on a lot of the social aspect of high school in order to get into a top university w/financial aid.
Many of the MM banks recruiting on campus at my school (open to sophomores) require a May through August internship and I have a great shot of getting into one due to my GPA and decent past finance experiences. They are names that will certainly position me well for getting a BX, GS, MS type offer after I transfer into a target school.
However, I am also considering taking classes over the summer at the school I transfer into in order to establish a GPA prior to junior recruiting and in order to lighten my fall course load in a significant manner so that I can join maybe a regular frat and a business frat in the same semester. I could also work out, improve my squash and golf skills and have a great summer. This coming spring, I will be able to put down "Investment Banking Summer Intern" on my resume because I could intern at a small boutique in my last semester.
Question is: Should I go for the MM IBD internship May - August and then transfer into a target school or should I take classes over the summer in order to establish myself and in order to make friends before the fall which could lessen my stress and could allow me to network better. Please remember take into account the no name spring ibd experience I could also do so that I won't be going into junior ibd interviews cold turkey with only a PWM internship.
bump
If I saw a resume with two previous IBD internships, I'd definitely set it aside to see if everything else looked good, and if everything else checks out, that kid is most likely going to get an interview.
If I saw a resume with a spring IBD internship and nothing for the summer, I'd wonder why this kid didn't do anything relevant over the summer if he was truly interested in IBD.
Just my two cents.
Summer Classes or Consulting Internship (Originally Posted: 03/13/2008)
Hey people,
I am wondering whether I should take summer classes at my school or I do an internship at a top-tier consulting firm during this upcoming summer. I'm hoping to become a consultant or a derivative trader at an investment bank after undergrad.
If I take summer classes, I can graduate about a semester earlier than expected. I want to have keep this option open because I want to pay less tuition fees. But, if I take summer classes I also have to sacrifice the opportunity to intern at the consulting firm.
I'm sure that the consulting experience will strengthen my resume for consulting and trading possibly. But, could the value of the internship be greater than that of graduating earlier on resume?
Consulting internship. Hands down. No one cares that you graduated early and it certainly won't be impressive. If money is an issue, suck it up, take a few more loans, but TAKE THE INTERNSHIP.
Look, I don't know if you are just this clueless or bull-shitting, but there is no way in hell that you should turn down a top-tier consulting internship to graduate a semester early. Unless your schooling is costing you 10 billion dollars per semester, always go with the summer position. I really don't think graduating a semester early because you are taking summer classes instead of working does anything to boost your resume, especially considering you said you are interested in consulting as a career.
Not trying to be ultra-harsh here, but seriously, take the internship.
Which firm?
A couple of thoughts: there is very little value to graduating a semester early. Most of these firms have very standardized training programs and want all of their incoming classes to start at the same time. Take the internship opportunity. It'll be better for your resume and you'll make money over that summer to 'offset' the money you would have saved by graduating early.
These days, getting the internship is as important as getting the job. Get the internship, most likely you get the job.
Also, you said you wanted to either be a consultant or a trader. Well, this consulting internship sure would help you figure that out, don't you think?
Your interviews next year will go something like this: interviewer: "I don't see anything on your resume last summer. How'd you spend your time last summer?" you: "Well actually I was taking summer classes so that I could graduate early" interviewer: "WAIT WHAT??? Why the fuck would you want to graduate early? Working sucks. I wish I was still in college BLAH BLAH BLAH"
You should definitely turn down the internship and graduate early. That way, after FT recruiting season, you can sit on your ass for 5 entire months regretting your decision.
take summer classes and graduate early. More time to get drunk and play video games wooohoooo.
Another IB Internship or Classes? (Originally Posted: 02/26/2015)
Hi all-
Currently a sophomore from a non-target interning at a boutique IB (15 employees) through the spring semester. I am faced with 2 options for this upcoming summer, and would like some input as to which one would better set me up for a SA position at a BB for the summer of 2016.
summer internship at a MM bank. The bank is much larger than the boutique I am currently interning at, and would be a nice intermediary step between the boutique and hopefully BB. I recently had a second round interview and believe I will probably get an offer.
Summer classes to boost my GPA. I currently have a 3.3x from a non-target (engineering major), and would be able to bump this up to roughly a 3.5 (assuming all A's) by the time recruiting comes around. I'm afraid if I don't take more classes to raise my current GPA, I might get screened out from first round interviews.
Any and all advice, much appreciated!
If you get the internship...take it. Depending on the hours, maybe take one online class if your school offers it. The MM will help you more than the .13 raise, especially if it is a reputable MM
thx for the advice, it is not an especially reputable MM however..
can anyone else shed some light?
bump
experience trumps gpa 10 times out of 10. A 4.0 without relevant experience gets you no job. Think big picture.
Additionally, sophmore year internship A) puts less pressure on you for Junior year SA recruiting B) Gives you something to TALK about for Junior year SA recruiting C) shows long term dedication for Junior year SA recruiting or potentially FT recruiting
not if he can't get past the GPA cut-offs.
that's a tough decision OP.
Take the internship. Big difference between working part time hours and doing a full 3 months of IB hours and banks will question why you didn't work your sophomore summer.
Also you go to a non-target, if your plan was to resume drop online then you never had a chance anyway whether you have a 3.3 or a 3.7. You need to network with bankers and if they like you and think you know your stuff then the difference between a 3.4 and a 3.5 won't matter.
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