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You would go to the morgue.
and your soul?
gonna go haunt the bathroom at the bus station for eternity.
As someone non-religious, the way I look at life and death is that you are a consciousness, not a body. What's the difference between sleep and death, in that both moments you're no longer conscious? According to quantum mechanics we might be immortal, either if time is infinite or there are an infinite number of parallel universes. Or if life is a simulation, an exceedingly realistic video game of sorts. If a civilization somehow acquires the ability to simulate life, there could be a billion simulated worlds for every real one. Either way it seems significantly more possible that we're immortal than we're not.
That's not really a discussion for an investment banking forum though lol.
Welcome to off-topic.
yo Joe Rogan whats up
"According to quantum mechanics we might be immortal" Uhmm what? ... that's not how quantum mechanics work. What are you even talking about
According to pre-Mesopotamian literature on gardening, you're wrong
So what happens like when ur not conscious and dead do u come back
I am Christian and believe in salvation through faith alone. This means that if you believe Jesus was a real person who was also God in the flesh, then you go to heaven regardless of what you did in your life. So I believe I would go to heaven and experience eternal happiness, whatever that concept means.
Curious to know; are you Christian? And if so, why do you think you end up in Purgatory first? How do you qualify for Heaven after Purgatory?
This is false. See the end of Matthew 25.
The entire Book is an interpretation, and the different denominations that exist today are due to differences in interpretation and application of an ancient text that has been translated a countless number of times over 1,000+ years. Mathew 25 is a bunch of parables, so its like interpretation within interpretation. It's cool if you and I interpret the passage differently, but for you to claim that any one interpretation is "true" or "false" with any authority is to equal yourself as a prophet or some divine mouthpiece. You should demonstrate some godly humility and chill with that. I can point you to a dozen other lines of scripture that point to Jesus's life, death, and resurrection as being the only thing that matters because it is the only thing that has ever and will ever conquer Sin and it is the only means to Heaven/eternal life. (Romans 3:28, John 3:16, Acts 4:12, Ephesians 2: 8-9, John 14:6, Acts 16:31, John 1:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 18 + many more)
To further highlight this point; the end of Matthew 25 talks about the goats and the sheep, where goats are the cursed people who do not go to Heaven and sheep are the righteous who do go to Heaven. Even the righteous people are confused as to what exactly they did to "earn" their ticket to heaven and Jesus's explanation is completely vague and just implies that they were good enough people. Could the "righteousness" that the sheep exhibited not be interpreted as believing in who Jesus is, and through this believe they simply lived their lives according to His word, therefore doing good things for people? If that is a plausible interpretation, then you cannot simply say that Matthew 25 invalidates my initial comment.
Double posted
If you get into purgatory you're automatically going to heaven for eternity. I'm convinced I've disobeyed enough direct orders from God that I'll end up having to 'purge' those sins in purgatory. Not sure if it will be 100 years or 10,000 years, but time is irrelevant there.
Sounds like you need some plenary indulgences
Isn't purgatory a dogmatic machination?
Your argument blows up easily when we examine the Old Testament. Both Enoch and Elijah went directly to Heaven according to Scriptures but neither believed that Jesus was YHWH incarnate.
I didn’t think this forum was going to turn into Apologetics but fine. Again, let me be clear in saying this is simply what I choose to believe and how I personally interpret the information. The Bible is full of contradiction, so selectively picking and choosing which passages are subordinate to other passages and saying “see I’m right and you’re wrong” is pointless and objectively impossible to do and makes you sound arrogant.
My argument does not blow up because Elijah and Enoch are two unique examples of people who appear to have been alive when entering heaven. Additionally, the Old Testament is literally before Jesus’s existence as a human, so neither Elijah nor Enoch nor anyone else really in the Old Testament had the ability to believe in Christ’s life, death, and resurrection because historically and chronologically it hadn’t happened yet. They could believe in the prophetic mentions of Jesus in the Old Testament, but until Jesus came to earth to sacrifice Himself, you can’t really believe in His sacrifice.
All that to say, I believe this naturally means salvation by faith alone is a concept that can only occur after Jesus did his thing, which happens after the events of the Old Testament. It doesn’t invalidate the Old Testament, but it does mean that the rules were changed at that point in religious history and that is why Christianity and Judaism exist as completely separate religions today. Jews, broadly, do not believe Jesus was God in the flesh and so their ticket to Heaven must be earned by other means I’m not super familiar with. Christians (root word being Christ, as in Jesus Christ) were originally a sect of Jews that decided to believe that Jesus was God in the flesh, and that he was killed and came back to life to representatively conquer Sin and death on behalf of mankind. Thus, to most Christians broadly, Jesus is a required piece of the puzzle to go to heaven. Different Christians believe in different additional pieces (see the back and forth between me and OP), and my personal believe based on some of the text I referenced earlier is that simply believing in Jesus is all that’s required.
I believe Jews go to heaven with good works, just like Christians. Maybe they didn't meet Jesus or know of him, but through trinitarian beliefs, if they know God, they know the trinity and to know love is to know God.
We are only responsible for what has been revealed to us.
Out of curiosity, so do you believe that regardless of what you do in life, just because you "choose to believe" (quoting) that Jesus was a real person who was also God in the flesh, you will go to heaven and experience eternal happiness? Is there any threshold for your actions or really anything goes as long as you choose that belief (whatever that means in practice)?
And on a related but slightly different point, if you do believe that you'll enjoy eternal happiness regardless of what you have already done in life, why stay alive? What is the point?
Yeah exactly
Sorry for the delayed response here; this new WSO update isn't updating me with notifications or responses. Your questions are very good and require thoughtful context, so apologies in advance if this is wordy or hard to follow.
Out of curiosity, so do you believe that regardless of what you do in life, just because you "choose to believe" (quoting) that Jesus was a real person who was also God in the flesh, you will go to heaven and experience eternal happiness?
In a very literal and reductive sense, the answer here is yes, but the nuance is explained below.
Is there any threshold for your actions or really anything goes as long as you choose that belief (whatever that means in practice)?
Again, the literal answer here is there is technically no threshold, and "yes" anything goes, but understanding HOW the Christian who believes this comes to this conclusion is important. The doctrine of salvation by faith alone (also known more simply as Sola fide), first put forth as a mainstream doctrine by Martin Luther in the early 14th century, is the conclusion that I and Christians of other denominations of Protestant Christianity arrive to after considering a few important premises:
1. Man is inherently Sinful and we are all Sinners (Romans 3:23 and Romans 5:12)
The idea here is that no one who has ever lived is perfect. If you are not perfect, then you are a Sinner who is undeserving of Heaven. We have all f*cked up and fallen short of the expectations that God has of us. Even Mother Theresa probably got horny at one point in her life. God's expectations are that we are perfect and never f*ck up once in our entire lives. In God's eyes, he gave Mankind a perfect world and all we would ever want so we should never need to disobey him, but we still do. Obviously this seems like an impossible standard, which is the literal point of Jesus Christ's existence and the foundation of Christianity (we get to that in Premises 3 and 4). This sinful nature is the story of Adam and Eve, where Adam and Eve represent the nature of mankind to take the apple because we're too curious not to. Like children touching a hot stove, we failed to "trust" God's rules and desire to break them because we're curious as to why we are told we can't do something.
2. Because we Sin, we need to be punished for it. The punishment is that we no longer get to go to Heaven or experience eternal life (Romans 6:23 and Isaiah 53:6).
When we Sin, we are separated from God and that separation is the ultimate form of punishment because we are therefore deprived of eternal happiness/life. This, in conjunction with Premise 1, means that the moment we Sin for the first time, we have lost the right to eternal life/Heaven, and therefore none of us are deserving to go to Heaven no matter what we do in our lives.
3. Jesus, who was both a Man and also God in the same body, is the only HUMAN that has ever lived that was able to live his life perfectly and without any Sin (Isaiah 9:6, 1 Peter 2:22, and John 10:3)
This is because he is the only human who is also God in the flesh, so He didn't have the same inherent sinful nature that the rest of Mankind has as described in Premise 1.
4. Because Jesus was a perfect Man according to Premise 3, he didn't deserve to be punished according to Premise 1 and 2. But because he willingly allowed Himself to be crucified, his death can serve as our punishment. (Romans 8: 1-39)
Jesus effectively serves as our replacement for the punishment we deserve in Premise 2. He experiences the full brunt of separation from God when he is crucified, where he famously shouts with his dying breath "God, why have you forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34). He's not saying this because of how much physical pain he is in due to the crucifixion, but because of the Spiritual pain he experiences as he feels himself being separated from God, or Himself. His soul is essentially being ripped apart, and because he also God and a higher being, he can experience this sense of pain moreso than humans can, he is able to fully experience the punishment.
5. Because Jesus, who was perfect, served the punishment that imperfect Mankind deserved, Mankind can now be saved from the punishment they deserve through Jesus' life, death, and resurrection and live our lives knowing that we can go to Heaven. (Romans 6:1-23, John 8:34-36, and 2 Corinthians 5:17)
Since He bore the punishment we deserved, we have the opportunity to be saved from that punishment and set free from the reality of our sinful nature.
Finally, the conclusion of these 5 premises are that Jesus lived His life so that we have the opportunity to avoid this punishment that we deserve. Since we are Sinful by nature, nothing we can personally do in the physical world can atone for these Sins because nothing we can physically do can erase our nature. The only way we get to Heaven, therefore, is to recognize and acknowledge that we are Sinful and we needed Jesus to stand in for our punishment. It is because of Him, and not by any good works of our own doing, can we go to Heaven. So, all you need to do is accept His existence and purpose and believe in it and what it stood for to get the keys to the pearly gates. Thus, Sola fide.
And on a related but slightly different point, if you do believe that you'll enjoy eternal happiness regardless of what you have already done in life, why stay alive? What is the point?
This is a great question that kind of ties everything together; you stay alive because you want to glorify God and Jesus and give thanks to His existence. The idea behind Sola fide as it relates to "good works" is that if you truly believe in everything I went over, you would become so overwhelmed with gratitude for the sacrifice that Jesus made for you that you would do your best from now on to live your life as He asks you to. By doing this, you naturally become more like Him and do good works. The fundamental theological difference between myself and OP here is that good works are not a requirement to go to heaven, but they are the RESULTS of actually understanding who Jesus is. If you truly believe in Jesus and the significance of what He did in the premises I laid out, you will become more Christ-like and do good works because you want to, not because you need to do them to access Heaven. In short, you need to be alive to demonstrate your thankfulness to Jesus and God, and also to live as an example of what it means to know Jesus and educate other people who may not know Jesus yet (Matthew 28:19-20).
idk about if you get hit by a bus, but if you blow yourself up on one, you get to have bad sex with 72 fine specimenz
yo wheres my fucking signature
free heister
I don't have a signature either but wondering about which types of salad you like. Free salads? Maybe.
I don't really fuck with veggies at all anymore, but I'd like a salad with no filler. No bullshit. All good shit. Like some spring mix base or whatever (raw spinach is trash also look into oxalates), avocado, walnut, baby tomatoes (good ones!)... dude I can't even remember what veggies there are but you know there are primo ones you pick out first? Do only those for my shit. Hold the radish bro. All I eat is ribeyes and eggs. Gotta be a solid amount of good protein. Steak or I suppose I could eat chicken in a salad but really nowhere else for it is a weak animal but a salad is a weak food so it's an energetic match. There's summer salads. Very light with an acidic dressing. Nice. Lemon. Salmon? Nice.
And winter salads with like warm squash pieces, a heavier dressing of a white or dark yellow hue, some blue cheese, walnuts candied in maple syrup... shit like that
But I gotta go I got ribeyes on the grill and weed in my mailbox.
I asked admin about the sigs
When you enter a comment, you can see the sig for about 1 second and then it disappears.
I do not want to find out what happens
So you're scared of death?
I am glad you replied to me, partly because I no longer get notifications for anything.
Well, I do not think it is a good thing...I would much prefer to stay here on earth.
You go back to where you were before you were born which is a state of non-existence. However, if we are judged by our deeds after death, I'd like to think that I'd go to heaven, maybe a quick stop in purgatory. I haven't cheated, stolen, or committed violence, and follow the golden rule to the best of my imperfect abilities.
Pretty prettyy prettyyy good
Death is an inevitability that I think I have very little bearing on in my current existence so I never really saw the point of speculating about it. Conversely, life is real and my actions have real impacts here and now. In short, if you dead, you dead- no heaven or hell just nothing.
weird
By the way, most Protestant branches don't acknowledge the existence of Purgatory.
It's mainly a Roman Catholic thing. Eastern Orthodox churches don't acknowledge the existence of Purgatory either. The Bible never explicitly mentions the existence of a place called "Purgatory" nor "a place you go to wash away some minor sins before you can enter Heaven". It's a mere speculation that some Catholic made back in the days and has now become an important aspect of the Catholic religion, which of course has lots of elements that's not derived from the Scripture itself.
Catholicism in a nutshell.
It’s found in Maccabees which is a part of the Apocrypha. For what it’s worth the New Testament canon is a bit arbitrary (a great deal goes to only one author. Paul).
Wow - shoutout to quoting Maccabees.
You should also look up some Buddhist beliefs. I'm not a Buddhist, but interesting read. They have like 16 different hells where each one specializes in specific types of sin. Good thing is that you get to stay only for millions and billions of years: You eventually get out.
Depending on how well you behave in your life, you can get reincarnated in like 6 different places.
Crazy thing is that Buddhists are extremely specific in their depictions of the after-life. I mean there are rigorous details that tells you exactly what happens in after life, how long you stay there, what creatures exist, etc... My boy Siddhartha Gautama was definitely high on something.
Didn’t the religion develop after Gautama’s death? I’m Pretty sure there was no Structured Religion until later (see Mahayana vs Zen Buddhism)
Doesn't playing God's role grant you a place in hell to begin with? Because if so, then everyone in this thread...
Blackness. You go to the ground for the rest of eternity. Anyone who says they believe in heaven is lying to themselves and knows deep down it's not real.
The good news is up until the moment your dad's sperm met your mom's egg you ceased to exist for an infinite amount of time up until that exact moment in time.
You have lots of preparation of what death will be like because that's exactly what you were up until that point in time.
Hey Isaaih, best answer would be to say "we can't ever know until we die". I would say look up Peter Panamore who has had 2 near-death experiences (NDE's). He later conferred the experiences of his NDE's with other folks who have had NDE's , and by and large folks' experiences seem to confer. I would look up NDE's and eastern-interpretations of how/where/what the soul goes through when you die. I too came from a monotheist background but can't deny what I've experienced, and what several other folks say they have seen when under the knife/about to die.
Also look up the NDE institute. I don't recall it's exact name but it's run, of course, but a physician, much Like Eben Alexander's foundation (while I dislike Eben's style, his experiences are not different than any one elses' NDEs).
I think it's important to ask why you are suddenly asking where you go when you die...what instigated this interest? It isn't always morbid, but sometimes there's something abrasive/painful that starts a guy on this path.
Id say we go to an astral dimension--whether or not that's purgatory, don't know, there's some debate within the protestant community, within the Church and of course between ethnic religions. When the body can't physically store your conciousness (bad hardware) you die--examine Sadghuru's comments on "what happens when you die" on youtube. That's why clinically dead people come back from NDE's, because we found recently that "cLinIcAlLy DaEd" folks actually have some miniscule brain electroactivity while "dead". So if you DIED on impact, completely, you'd be catapulted from your body and see your body getting fucked (lmao) and know "hey, can't fit in there no more, that computer's motherboard died!" So you'd go on to another space.
I think we can be born into another corporeal body but don't know. As a Christian, you'll likely be at odds with this concept, and I get that 1200%!
Let's get at it! Feel like this will be a poignant and great thread on WSO
What target school has the best heaven placement?
Tough to say as only God can judge. But, maybe semi-target Notre Dame.
I've been networking heavily with dogs to get some good favor on the inside
Couldn't get placed. I have to spend eternity in middle office (purgatory). Anyone know what kind of exit opps there are?
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