Having to be available 24/7, being unable to disconnect from emails, live deals, not so live deals that still take the same toll, cancelled weekend plans, cancelled holidays, the emotional toll of having to socially manage said cancellations, diminishing social / romantic / sport / cultural life, inability to plan anything for fear of a live deal interfering.
All of it for high cash comp, which although ends up being spent "stupidly" as free time is scattered and unpredictable, and paper carried interest taking years to meaningfully materialize.
What has gone wrong and why would smart grads still engage in this?
PS: seeing threads being titled "how to train attention to detail", is that the sort of goal and accomplishment you want to tell your grandkids about at 70 y.o.? What has gone wrong?
many similar threads on wso - assuming this isn't a troll, i'll bite. can't speak for others, but my reasoning below - everyone's utility curve is different. that being said, my firm is one of the more laid back MFs (not apollo).
1) i enjoy the work and am learning everyday. generally enjoy the people that i work with, both within my group and across the firm
2) i'm single, so no heavy romantic commitments thus far
3) came from a middle class / lower middle class upbringing. feels good to be able to support my parents with my income, and be on my way to making meaningful money, especially as someone that wants to stay in the city and buy someday in tribeca/soho/etc (for those outside of NYC, some of the most expensive neighborhoods)
4) whatever pain you speak of is temporary and lasts for a few years. when you're VP / principal / MD, many of the negatives that you outlined in your OP are not applicable, even across the worst-culture firms. if you're the type of person where you HAVE to live a leisurely / ballin lifestyle in your 20s and/or have no pain tolerance / ability to delay gratification into your mid-late 30s, yeah, MF PE likely isn't for you
5) putting things in context and looking nationally/globally (emerging/frontier markets), not many people are in my shoes, and many would kill to be in my shoes. my parents came to the US with $100 in their wallet, and i'm genuinely grateful to be where i am. if you, say, grew up wealthy and are used to 3-4 day weekends in the hamptons every weekend where you have to completely unplug, yea, MF PE likely isn't for you
Solid input, but I think people should really think about your last point. So many people stay in roles that they hate because they tell themselves that they should be grateful to have that position. It's good to have a check on reality and remain grateful but you should be doing what is best for you under your own preconditions rather than thinking it could always be worse.
The average kid in Africa would kill for a job at Burger King in the US. The average guy at Burger King would probably kill for a job at PWC. With that said, you should benchmark against YOUR options and not against the situations of people with completely different preconditions. You should be comparing your situation against other options within your reach (equity research, hedge funds, corporate banking, consulting, accounting, VC, GE etc.).
The Burger King to PwC pipeline is actually quite strong.
You’re right in reminding that everyone‘s utility curve is different and this is key.
Where I would disagree is:
1/ seniors (think senior principals) do not seem to enjoy the job anymore, I can appreciate the excitement back in the days when track where shorter but the artificially long tracks that are now industry standard make the job very repetitive after a few years
2/ the decision of which life partner to settle with will come and choices are i) pick in the very limited pool of people who understand and agree with said lifestyle, or ii) pick regardless and constantly have to justify/ apologize for late nights and weekend work. Am raising this because I don’t see the pace quieting down once VP / Principal but might be firm specific
Ultimately where the PE industry nailed it is in maintaining the prestige aura around a lifestyle that, frankly, many people consciously decide against. I think this reckoning comes later in one’s career which explains why people still rush into it although it is obvious that it’s banking 2.0
Currently an analyst at a US BB and this further confirms what everyone is telling me, that large-cap PE is just banking 2.0. Personally, I am looking to switch careers to consulting / corp dev / strategy / growth equity where the WLB is much better. Comp will be lower but I don't have any expensive habits. I could do everything I want and still be able to save plenty even on a consulting / corp dev / strategy / growth equity salary.
In my opinion, you need to have very concrete goals in order for IB or PE to be worth the horrible WLB. For example, if it is extremely important for you to have a certain apartment, a certain car, being able to afford visiting expensive clubs every weekend etc then it might be worth paying the prize of devoting 80+ hours a week to making that cash. To me, I've realized that it's not worth sacrificing my personal interests, my relationships and my wellbeing for some incremental cash because I simply don't care that much about being able to drive a Ferrari vs. a Porsche or having a nice apartment in the best neighbourhood rather than in the third-best neighbourhood etc.
Difference between you and a slave is you can leave and don’t get whipped physically. My ancestors came to the US as indentured servants and were beaten and whipped in post slavery US as effective slaves. You can quit tomorrow.
I’d love to hear the perspective of those dropping monkey shit on a purely fact-based post. You hate the job? Find a new one.
They’re only dropping monkey shit because they’re anti-black weirdos. Commonplace for WSO. Anyways, one time I was at this fireside chat and this Hedge Fund manager who was jailed for insider trading compared his experience to Nelson Mandela’s 🤣😂 I’m not at all surprised by this ridiculous thread.
IB, and its associated PE, is specifically designed to target high achieving lazy people. What you described as being rough is exactly the type of work these types seek
Not even close to slavery. There’s plenty of slaves in today’s world (and a large amount are children/teens) and none of them are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and get to go home and decompress every night. So would suggest you never compare finance to slavery again.
On the real though, under MD you’re effectively compensated for your time and availability. In large cap PE orgs, you’re paid a whole lot for it and your MDs and partners are going to get a return on their investment. Doesn’t make it right but that’s the deal you sign up for. If you don’t like it then you can leave at any time and go down market or to a corporate where you can have more control over your time and receive commensurate compensation.
People on this site acting like their decision to work a demanding job that automatically puts you in the 1% is equivalent to slavery is comical.
Can’t take anyone seriously when they act like this
Only a white person would compare PE to slavery
and once you become half decent at your job, the lifestyle becomes a lot better. The real problem is the dumbing down of PE hiring and the hiring cycles which don’t allow people to gain any experience. A lot more people unsuited for the job.