Mega Funds at the Mid-level
I've heard from enough people that mega funds can have awful work/life balance at the associate level. How is life at the mid-level at firms like CVC, TPG, Apax, Blackstone, etc. Would appreciate any general commentary or specific company insights.
Thanks!
From my direct sample set of one, it's a grind even through the Principal level. The hours during a live deal lessen as you scale up given you pivot away from drafting materials, but it becomes more of a 24/7 job as you get more involved on the portco and origination sides. Saw a partner spend a whole Christmas day on calls given where things were at with a particular deal.
This was not the case at the MM fund I was previously at.
Thanks for the response
I work at one of the funds you mentioned in the post - Mid Level is perhaps 5% better (than associates) at best. Still looking at 80-90+ hours per week and you are sort of always on something live, either new deals or port co transactions.
UMM here. Worse for VPs than Associates. Seeing their lives fall apart has made me reconsider this career path.
Fall apart in what way? Curious if you can give any more info on the specific cases.
Not my business to share. Personal lives, relationships, etc. suffering materially as a consequence of overinvesting in the job (no pun intended).
Following
It was universally agreed that being a VP was worse than an associate at my MF. Being an Associate was tough, but the work was more structured and tractable. A VP needs to be able to whip people into shape, move processes along and remove obstacles which can require ridiculous hours, pressure, etc. And if you are a less growthy buyout shop that's looking at complex companies with several additional diligence streams (carve-out/TSA, covenant issues / repricings of debt in the wrong direction, tons of bolt-on M&A making financials murky, etc.) then dealing the additional quarterbacking can be miserable.
And to top it all off, even an above average VP may not make Principal depending on timing/group structure. So you could spend 3-5 years grinding away for nothing. I'm obviously biased because I chose not to take the VP role, but I would not recommend it for someone looking for a semblance of a decent lifestyle at most large cap funds. Hours only get very marginally better but the work gets even worse/more intense.
Everything in this thread is correct. Maybe hard to observe from an associate's perspective, but VPs are probably under the most pressure of anyone at the firm and are the ones who will be blamed for every little thing that goes wrong. On top of the work-related grind, politics is also a nightmare as promotion only gets harder the more senior you get.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. I was considering jumping up from mid-market (the money is juicy), though it sounds like I am in the right place already.
Bro the money is already juicy you work in PE
Liking the place you work is priceless. Enjoy.
Nothing new from what I can tell based on the rest of the responses in the thread, but yet another data point.
The mid-level people at a MF (senior associate through principal) work their literal asses off. I do as well, but I’m 22 without a care in the world, and I know I’m leaving in a few years to B school or something so it doesn’t matter. These dudes have families and are ~30 years old and still staying up until 2am every weeknight. Only difference is they are locked in with carry and basically can’t leave.
Oh, and my partners worked through Christmas this year. No thanks.
Can more people please share anecdotes / insights? Very interesting stuff.
I work at an UMM and was on zoom last night with my Principal at 1am...
Not mine directly, since I've never been at one of these shops but plenty of friends have and a few acquaintances still are.
The key is: there are 24 hours in a day for everyone. This is a fundamental truth. If you spend 14-18 hours a day at something, assuming you sleep, there isn't much time for anything else. Simple math.
What have I seen/heard of up close? Divorce, health problems, intense loneliness and depression. And that's not including the people I've seen become robots and literally become unable to do anything but talk about work. Ever. And none of this takes into account things like: work politics, family demands/events (weddings/deaths etc), societal pressures etc.
This is not to say that everyone is unhappy or whatever, but that there is a reason the money is/can be so good. There is little risk one takes at these jobs. You are not putting up capital or anything. You are playing with other people's money and they expect you to make them a lot of money so that you and your bosses can make a lot of money. That's really it. But there is a cost for that "riskless" high pay. And the cost is your time.
I think we often forget this (and not just in PE but in many different parts of finance).
Not exactly the perspective you asked for, but I’m at a MM (10bn) and my VPs and Directors work my hours or longer. It’s turned me off of wanting to stick around much longer and I’m up for VP this year. Starting to put my feelers out for a move.
What are you looking to move to?
Following
Bump
Bump
I’ve heard that PE is rough at the associate level, but had no clue that it doesn’t get better until you make MD basically. Please, those with exp, would you say the same rings true at MF private credit or credit-focused special opportunities funds?
Not at a MF or even in the USA, but my life has gotten significantly worse as I made it to Principal. I have to do a lot of "organizing" around things and also step in to support younger associates when they struggle with things, while also contributing to firm wide initiatives. It sucks to be in the middle where I don't do the work but I also have to supervise it and make sure it's correct, no one to look up to for support and have it all under control.
Honest question that I could never ask principals at my firm:
Why do you do it? What about this appeals to you? Please don't include the money in your answer, I know the money is good.
Many reasons - can't take money out of the equation:
1. I have made it this far, overcame many challenges. I am not about to give up now when I can taste MD a few years down the line. Can seem like stupid reasoning but I really didn't have it easy. Made many sacrifices, so I owe it to myself to see myself succeed.
2. I make significantly outsized comp compared to everyone i know and there is not any other career choice that will pay anything remotely close. Important factors when you have a family and kids and want to give them the best of what life has to offer. Additonally, Golden handcuffs like everyone else said. Co-invest, carried interest, bonus, etc. It's a vicious cycle.
3. Intellectual pursuit. The quality of talent that i work with is amazing and very unlikely to be found elsewhere. Additionally, I get to meet and work alongside many internationals (experts we get for portcos, board members, etc.) Really always learning something new and doing something that "matters". Not just collecting a paycheck.
4. I like the people I work with. It's just the challenges are immense and super stressful at times.
5. Ego stroke. You're the one everyone looks up to for advice etc cause you're the most successful in your immediate circle. Don't underestimate the hold that ego can have on you. Especially, if you've been consistently told as a kid that you have "potential". You want to live up to it.
PM me if you want to discuss at length. Happy to have a more real discussion.
One question I’ll ask here since it likely would benefit others too.
How do you think about the risk of a downside scenario where you get stuck in the mid levels / asked to leave pre-MD? Do you feel like there are enough opportunities to move to another firm and continue progressing or is the mid-level really a tough spot for that since you’re expensive, but maybe just shy of being able to bring in deal flow, etc. that would make hiring a new MD worthwhile (at least from an outside in perspective that a potential new employer would have)?
Excepturi sapiente aut quaerat. Aperiam sit eius aut error assumenda corrupti.
Aut id magnam quia voluptate ipsum. Cum dicta est dolore. Illo quis suscipit consectetur dolor. Laboriosam aut dolor suscipit totam eligendi blanditiis.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Corrupti eum minima nihil est porro aspernatur nemo quia. Tempora quasi ipsum illum illum sed. Tenetur dolor dolor commodi aut est nisi.
Corrupti dolorem voluptas maxime a tempore. Voluptatem et dignissimos sed laborum et autem maxime veritatis. Molestiae eum sapiente nobis rem. Sunt iure qui quo modi sunt sit architecto. Et repellendus molestiae rem architecto eaque minus.