Hey all,
First time making a post on here after lurking for a while, so bear with me. I'm an associate at a large-cap infrastructure PE fund (did MM PE and banking prior to this) and over the past couple years have been increasingly struggling to cope with the hardo / cold nature of high finance culture. Somewhat out of desperation I am now wondering (after having bounced around to a few different firms over the years) if there are ANY culture-forward firms out there comprised of decent, supportive, dare I say nice people who won't hang me out to dry and will be genuinely invested in my growth/development.
In the large-cap PE world (ideally in infrastructure as well) do folks have any sense for whether some of these firms / groups are out there and can provide examples? Or am I doomed to keep circling around this merry-go-round from role to role, hoping that this time it'll be different, only to eventually concede that this industry is just not for me?
Generally, bad cultures in PE happens when people fear for their jobs (i.e. firms take too many laterals, future of the firm is in questions, path to partner is not clear). Try to go somewhere younger maybe
I’ve seen that too. In my current firm most mid level folks seem like neglected children where they fawn over the seniors and seize whatever opportunity they can to impress them (often at juniors’ expense, ie not getting an opportunity to present to the CIO so the VP can steal the spotlight and pretend like he knows what he’s doing). It creates a zero sum / hyper competitive environment.
100%. Most firms are like this now. Due to the market.
people say Bain has a good culture but it's group dependent - from experience, flagship NAPE generally has a positive culture (although it's very up-and-out oriented), majority of credit has good WLB if not a bit more negative view of their path upward as no one tends to leave, and other strategies (insurance, special situations) are more cold / hard core as you say
I’ve heard similar takes on Bain. Do you mind elaborating further on what you mean by “up-and-out”? And do you have a sense for where Bain Double Impact lands on that spectrum?
Bain and Berkshire tend to be the two firms people consistently reference for having slightly better cultures than most. To be clear, it's still scaled PE, not like you feel like you're working at Google, but have had close friends work at both and would generally agree they have positive things to say. Advent used to come up in those discussions a lot too, but seems like it may have gotten more group-dependent in recent years, someone else may be closer to the latest feel there
Could you say more about Advent? Which groups still have good culture?
What is Bain Real Estate culture like?
Infra PE is notoriously brutal culture and hours wise
it’s just the industry attracts the worst people for whatever reason.
I would guess co-invest platforms for infra are generally nicer people / vibe.
This checks out with my understanding, which is also what I’m struggling to come to terms with. I genuinely like infrastructure investing (with a focus on clean energy) but am worried that to pursue it will get stuck working in groups with ugly cultures. I probably will need to migrate away from large cap funds and go down market to improve my odds.
Infra PE in general:
- Personalities: If you are actually interested in Infra, it is a fantastic place to be as that is super rewarded. The problem ends up being that it is a good job (also true of corp pe) so people who don’t actually like it stay there to collect a pay check with a mid attitude.
- Skillset/Technically: the skill set is more about reading and understanding contracts and financial modelling and less about commercial understanding than corporate pe. However this is usually overstated, the value creation plans will often be highly creative and a lot of fun to draw up.
- Culture: More hours because of the nature of the work (modelling for instance is more thorough and there are much more varied model types and timelines)
- Career: Fantastic tailwinds for the industry. Honestly much better than corporate pe (where I work now)
What PE funds have a notoriously bad culture?
I’m the guy who went A2A at my bank but nearly all my friends / class went to PE, a lot of MF names, and here’s what I gather from them nowadays:
H&F: Absolutely soul crushing hours at times, almost certainly out after 2 years; caveat is it is arguably the best pure play PE shop on the street to learn as an ASO, and will set you up very well for your next shop or B-school (H/S/W for everyone pretty much)
Thoma: Also crazy hours given deal velocity and lean team, but Miami culture tends to make it more fun outside work. Generally a tight knit group and strong firm performance (although future performance in limbo based on 2021 investments)
Apollo: Absolutely terrible, full stop. people are psycho more or less (maybe my friend included lol), just there for the money and potential fast track to partner.
Vista: Surprisingly bad culture, didn’t think he expected it coming in. People seem to be generally nice and such, but very little transparency seems to unravel a fair amount of the associates, and high attrition as a result. TLDR is the firm got fucked up after 2021 - he’s looking to leave already
Bain: Probably the best culture (or at least what I hear relative to my other friends at MFs). Very smart people and not as sharp elbowed as other firms.
Any insight into UMM funds?
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