$300k roles in real estate

Broker is not a w-2 role though 

ehh, banking is not the move (been there, done that) - too many jokers at the banks 

i should correct myself here.  in another thread that is currently near the top, about best jobs in REPE/RE, a poster (who appears to know what he is talking about) reports "200-300" (probably including carry), at Hines, generally for MBAs.  they sound like the only developer who could offer that though.

Serious answer: it depends

You are trying to over-generalize mid to late career comp like you can analyst or associate comp. In reality, a 35-40 year old in this industry could be making $100k or $5MM a year. It is too variable to say "X by Y age."

I guess the "anything is possible" caveat is needed here, and sure somebody will. But with that said...

To suggest that the "career path" of people in development is to running your own deals by 40 and making $1 million per year isn't close to the real experience of the overwhelming vast majority of people in development. 

Frankly, this "REPE" vs "development" (or anything else) debate (WSO fav), misses a pretty large point, getting jobs at these high-yield funds is not easy, supply dwarfs demand by 100x (literally, I bet BX/SW gets 100+ QUALIFIED applicants per analyst/associate spot, plus tons more not qualified). That is why they can work people 80+ hours a week for years (same deal in the IB world), so making double for working double isn't exactly the brilliant move it sounds like (I mean, if you want to make money, it is a trade that can pay off, especially on the "Exit" so I'm suggesting not to pursue it). 

Development by its nature is a far slower business, and while some shops (mainly in NYC) will work associates 80+ hours, I don't think that is the norm. People work in development because it is fun, interesting, and yes can pay pretty well relative to MOST jobs in this world (especially without getting some specialized MD/JD/PHD in STEM fields or whatever). Spoiler alert, most of us who work in development (at least beyond the associate level) are not sitting around thinking about "how to break into REPE", instead we are fielding calls from people in REPE/IB asking "how can I get into development". 

Pay isn't everything, and more importantly, those top paid roles (like the $500k by 35) are not easy to get and frankly getting an analyst/associate role is little guarantee you won't get cut before VP/Director (that part gets omitted a lot on here). So, in general, I get the discussion but it assumes one can just snap their fingers and do which ever they want, clearly that is not the case. 

Too much generalization. Don't try and compare it to IB or PE where 99% of the people in the industry are in gateway cities.

Yes - working for a small shop / GP / Developer is the way to go if you want to do your own deals some day. Both ways can be done. With that said, at the smaller shop you will be in the nitty gritty of every deal that the LP isn't. You will learn how to actually operate the asset, how the business plan really implements, and when you are underwriting, what is actually going to happen when you begin raising rents. The small shops will give you more exposure to the entire process. The big shops will give you more stability and credibility. It is a mixed bag honestly, in terms of raising capital, but the credibility is the big issue. I personally have the personality for corporate, and would do better in a corporate role (and have done much better in my corporate roles over entrepreneurial) but you just learn more in a small shop because you get to 'touch more.' This will also set you up with a 'hard' skillset as you will actually know how the thing (building) operates and what buttons you can press. In my humble opinion, you don't learn this at an LP, even if you do asset management.

Yes, anything is better than REPE if you want to build a 'work for yourself' skillset.  I would especially add, working on smaller deals will be more relevant than working on a $300mn tower at Tishman.

I'd guess I'd say yes to your proposition, at least generically plausible. Still, "doing own deals" in real estate is generally of being able to raise/attract capital and negotiate deals, that really comes down to sales ability at its core. So, trying to find a "job" that prepares you for all that, is probably easier said than done. My observations of people who successful started their own venture were usually pretty senior people, had prior executive experience (like at a development and/or investment mgnt firm), OR came from brokerage/I-banking sales world. 

For me, buy and hold / value add. I don’t like development. In my humble opinion, I don’t think the extra risk you take is worth the extra 200-300 bps you make on the deal from an IRR perspective. I’ve worked at a firm that had a large construction and bridge lending platform and I’ve seen way too many developers completely blow their targets. They don’t necessarily loose money, but they don’t much make either. I’ll add, these were institutional developers. Keep in mind, with current valuations there is a reason many developers began construction loan funds - when you lever up your loan position, your return is safer (technically) and a higher risk adjusted return. 
I’ve also worked for an opportunistic equity fund targeting high teens returns. It felt akin to VC investing - if a deal in the market could hit our returns - we basically had to try to win the deal. It was much less about is this a good deal, do we like the real estate and the location, but more about “oh hey, this can hit our returns. It’s the only building we’ve seen this month that can potentially do it - we need to win the deal.” Basically, this is what happens when you have a fund that has to put equity out and the deal targets are slim picking. 
I think a major question people forget to ask is: “Your targeted return (IRR) is 18%-20%, but do you ever actually hit it?” Everyone asks “what return do you want and what return do you need?” - to their investors. And many people want and say they need that high high return. But they forget the question - does the operator they are speaking with ever hit it? And the answer the majority of the time - a resounding no. 
 

I like buy and hold / value add because you have more deal targets to choose from and are more likely to hit your returns. You are looking for singles and doubles. And if you have a long time horizon, you can buy quality real estate and hold it forever. Sure, flipping you make a profit quickly. But you create wealth in real estate by holding for 30 + years. 
 

With all this said, the above is my opinion and my investing style. I am extremely conservative. I also feel I’m a realist. People may disagree with me and have other experiences. I 100% could be wrong but this is where I like to invest. 

Head Analyst on my Middle Market IS team in NYC was 29/30 and brought in $300k+ in 2019. Can be even more with institutional groups. 

i believe you but this is not an 'analyst' role for someone with 0, 12, or 24 months experience following graduation 

I don’t see much of an arbitrage, or disproportionate pricing, between docs and RE investors here if that’s what you’re getting at. Also super hard to grind thru and be a doctor. Esp these days with covid. They’re fucking heroes as far as I’m concerned. You don’t get into medicine to get rich, you’ll flame out. Plenty of people get into RE and business in general for the money because that’s pretty much what it’s all about.

I appreciate your last point though - hard to make a lot of $ no matter how you slice it. In RE, even if you don’t become an entrepreneur and instead end up in a senior role at an investor/lender, the higher you go, the more your comp is tied to performance and is more “eat what you kill”. Cause after all, what else is there to eat? That’s how the firm makes money so that’s how you make money, period. So just grinding won’t do it. Investing also takes lots of luck. 

i doubt the guy who makes "maybe 300 by 50" is TRULY "busting his ass" as you say, in the way that a licensed MD has busted his ass or a career i-banker in NY has busted his ass.  a typical real estate track is not as hard as those things.  

 Our justification for being in this industry is that we want to earn the millions, but the reality is that very few do. The reality is that it is super hard. My wish is that we can all can achieve our dreams, but unlikely to happen. Funny how we start out thinking in college, that we will be billionaires, but then when we start working, we'll take a $300k salary by age 50.

I appreciate the honesty of your comment, and I suspect a lot of people in this industry (and a lot others frankly) feel similar at various points in their careers. Still, my gut reaction is somewhat the opposite. I got into this industry because it seemed super interesting, exciting, and even meaningful. Watching cities develop, properties be designed, and deals/transactions for space and investments come together was just super cool. I wanted to learn and do everything. 

The fact that it can pay well (I mean super well) clearly was motivating factor, and pay has certainly directly career choices I have made and probably will continue to be factor in the future. BUT, I can't say I do what I do for the pay alone, and I can absolutely say I was not seeking out the route to the largest salaries and profit payouts at any point. I've come up along side the hardcore, high-finance world (real estate private equity funds and non-trade REITs) at the high level as a consultant. I've had many opportunities (some seriously considered) to jump full in to that world and suspect I would or could be making more than I am today had I done so (at least some potential for bonus/profit shares in the short-term). At end of the day, the pure finance world just seemed boring AF (personal take). 

I have zero regret, in fact, I am really thankful I didn't succumb to the chase pure money urges. And frankly, I think most of my peers (I'm late 30s) who have now been in this industry 15+ years mostly feel the same I think. My peer circle in finance seems more envious of people in real estate than vice versa (this may be very biased). I actually like what I do, and feel most people in my firm and industry do as well. Sure there good days and bad days, but I know I am not looking to trade. 

Of course, depending on your willingness to take risks (that includes getting advanced degrees and/or moving markets for job ops), I don't think making "all in" compensation north of $300k is all that hard on a relative basis. Have no idea on percentages, and of course varies by market/field/role, but I'd venture a guess that many people in this industry will reach that threshold somewhere in the 15-20 year total career time mark (so could be mid thirties for some). Those in brokerage/fee/commissioned base can get there faster (with some luck) but with less guarantee, those with more "corporate" jobs need to get promoted, take advanced/specialized roles, and/or bank on good bonus and participation type payouts quite often. 

So, on net, I think this industry is pretty awesome to present this much opportunity to so many and really be a lot of fun along the way. Clearly, it's not for everyone (and I sincerely am super happy people like your wife exist and do what they do!!), but it's all perspective. If you think you were destiny bound to make $1mm by age 30 (like the talk of the WSO IB forum), and you only make $150-200k or less, I guess you could feel pretty disappointed. On the other hand, if you think about classmates making $100k in some corp finance role at random firm XYZ filing TPS reports everyday and god knows what else, you might consider yourself pretty lucky/well off. 

To each there own, life if full of trade-offs, I'd rather enjoy my job than anything else! (NOTE... I think those who really enjoy it, and become really good at it, will get paid the most in the long-run)