I work at a large institutional RE firm in my city for about 5+ years now since graduating. I’ve worked so hard with no promotions or comp raises. And my comp is WAY below market. Recent restructure at my team and just seems like there’s no growth or opportunity.
I’ve been looking for 2+ years now, but more aggressively in the last 3-4 months. My network is huge and I’m well known/respected in my niche. There’s barely any jobs posted/avialible, and the ones that are are always looking for 7-10 yoe. I apply (and even get the interview, which shows the strength of my resume) and it leads nowhere. Then I apply to jobs with no experience gap, get to the final round, and they give it to an internal employee.
And most recently, I applied to another firm who was looking for someone entry (but I’d accept just to pivot from my situation) and they even rejected me.
This is not an interviewing problem. I come out of most of these phone screens / interviews genuinely so excited usually because of how well it went.
I honestly don’t know what to do at this point. I can’t even think of anything I can add to me resume to help it. I keep networking but nothing seems to be working.
I hate to cast blame, but this market is getting to me. Nothing seems to be working.
Market is tough. I know so many people who are in similar situations. I was doing some interviews last year to see what was out and found a place I really liked, and the person they hired over me had like 5-6 years more experience, which was pretty wild considering the comp offered.
Dude at least you have a job. There are very smart and capable people in my network who have been without a seat for over a year.
This environment is unhealthy in most facets. Capital raising is tough, equity is scared of their shadow, debt is plentiful but expensive and covenanty, leasing generally speaking is so-so, etc. It all kind of sucks right now, but this is a cyclical sector and those with endurance and smarts will preserver.
Very easy for me to say to a complete stranger on a message board, but I think you need to come at this with a different mindset. As others have said, you have a job. Very few people are truly hiring right now. The best job to get is from a company that is not hiring but is adding you because they feel like they have to. So keep networking, but don't do it with an end goal in mind. Just keep meeting people and strengthening existing relationships. Eventually, something will come of that. You are going to burn yourself out if you keep applying for every job known to man in this market. It's awful out there.
Good advice. Would add: there's something conflicting about (i) saying you're paid far below market and (ii) describing a brutal job market where nothing is available. Somewhere those two need to converge. Maybe the true market pay (especially after including all the $0 figures for the unemployed) is a closer to your comp than you realize.
I think where this comes in is at bonus time. Real estate tends to be a low salaries + higher bonus structure, especially as you move up. When times are good, you can make a lot of money. When times are lean, you can be looking at just your salary. As an example, my most recent bonus was 3x my salary. But I always know that there could be a year where it's just my salary, and I live like that. So when people in real estate talk about being underpaid, I've usually found it has to do with bonuses being cut (or eliminated).
In IB so take this with a grain of salt (although have worked at a top CRE firm) and the issue is as follows:
High Paying CRE jobs are few and far between for the precise dynamic that:
1) Real Estate is just easy (at least easier than IB/PE, even in complicated ABS groups, the underlying collateral is just one of 4-5 property types). How hard is it really to underwrite another Office building or Multifam.
2) You need less people
to do CRE work then IB. Not sure exactly why this is but I think it ties into it being easier. Especially now with pushes for AI / automation, expect for this to get worse. Also this can be seen as there are less spots at top PE funds than IBs so maybe more of a buyside vs sell side dynamic.
But the real takeaway I think is that the value in RE is that it is much easier to go out on your own, especially if you are willing to work with / invest in Residential (due to smaller capital requirements).
I think in this market if you are not exceptional it is going to be very hard to find anything worthwhile.
Office getting cooked probably has to do with it as well.
How did you pivot from CRE to IB?
It's not you. This is everyone and everywhere right now. The market sucks and company cultures suck more.
Guys, time to look at real estate not as a career path and industry and more of a skill set on asset intensity along with other skills you are developing. I said this during the better times and especially now.
For example, banking leads to corporate development at a ____ company / different industry. The banking experience creates desired skill sets, and opportunity. Expand your knowledge base beyond real estate. Get obsessed with another industry.
What industries are asset intensive? Manufacturing, logistics, retail, health care, government, restaurants, British Pubs (GI Partners bought a portfolio), energy, this AI craze, agriculture, space travel, hospitality, cruise ships, transportation, education, sports, prisons, robotics, defense, minerals extraction, etc.
My hot take is, the era of the dominance of the four food groups ended around 2016. That’s when revenue growth started to not outgrow replacement cost growth (which is tied to globally priced capital and commodities). That was a paradigm shift, looking back. Seek other industries that are asset intensive that have revenue growing faster than costs.
I believe anyone can make the transition in three years (become sort of an expert after intense focus).
Odog always coming in with the most insightful comments.
Great perspective Odog
Maybe the most insightful comment I have ever read on this forum. Well done
+1 odog, very insightful and the kind of divergent, out of the box thinking we need to have as invested industry practitioners generally. If you could do expand on this even more - i think everyone would appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
I’m kind of an enigma. I’m not easily definable. I credit my divergent thinking for some business successes but also being able to create a life where I work on things I enjoy. I’m a delusional rational optimist who is focused on a long term thesis and who gets turned off by crowds or popularity.
I don’t really have too much more to add to my “real estate should be a skillset” observation. Most new fields are mash ups of older fields, so the divergent thinking naturally sees the follow on possibilities.
I think a “real estate mind” is actually an advantage today, as the decks are getting reshuffled somewhat on what are traditional ways of making money.
To me, a real estate mind sees long term trends or triggers; is patient; understands control and builds moats using the value of proximity (location, location, location - whether it is in the physical world or virtual) and simplicity; finds the right people to work with, long term people; and has the imagination to contemplate their career as a development project in a greenfield with potential for multiple phases and mixed uses.
I may be wrong, but patience is a virtue, and is the opposite virtue being touted in our impulsive driven world (the much debated LLM is today’s 4 cap; but what’s coming next is more exciting, that is a 8 cap today). I think strategic patience keeps you a rational optimist, a focused executor, and an overall happier person because you are playing your own (long) game. I don’t like to chase.
Real estate teaches you patience. It also teaches you how to sleep at night dealing with huge financial uncertainty. I mentioned this to a group of college students last week when they asked me how I deal with uncertainty and anxiety.
There is a lot we learn from real estate that I feel will be an advantage especially for earlier inning trends, where it isn’t obvious yet.
Asset intensive industries could open up various fields to us.
I think a mash up of what you’ve honed in a RE career with another industry is exciting and symbiotic.
Another term I made up is “skillset leverage.” That’s when you use your “real estate skillset” and work on a team where nobody else has your skills. They bring different skills. That’s when you can shine and get rich. Working in a RE company where your boss did your same job 10 years ago is going to make them limit how much you are worth. That’s what makes traditional CRE lower paying. While we can say it’s because you are not taking risks, it’s also because the product type hasn’t evolved very much.
Seek the edges, the niches, the high skill set leverage teams, and then build brands, which are essentially words and feeling. What you should be doing is creating words and feelings and hope others adopt it and refer to it. That’s the differentiator in a hyper competitive world with very little IP.
Maybe RE expanded too hard post covid and now there’s a hangover effect in the industry
Ding ding ding. Not sure why people don’t acknowledge this. We had too many firms spring up / expand, which means far too many analysts and associates coming into the fold 2020-2022. The industry is right sizing, and maybe shrinking due to AI reducing need for a large analyst pool. The people that have 4-6 years experience are now facing huge numbers of competition for each role, and also aren’t equipped to do AVP or higher level work yet as their live deal experience is largely limited to analyst level work from 2020-2022. Younger analysts are then also blocked from doing higher level work, and likely have barely experienced any closings.
Is it frustrating? Of course. But it’s reality and it’s not changing in the short term so may as well embrace it and focus on 1) building relationships and 2) higher level tasks so you stand out/have an “in” when those few jobs do pop up.
Quite literally me right now. Was an analyst on a high flying debt team from 20-24, moved to current seat at as associate. Trying to recruit now for senior associate or VP roles and it has been absolutely brutal.
Real estate sucks as a long term career. As someone who lost their job due to restructuring and had to accept a below market role, I'd suggest considering other industries.
People get into real estate because it's cool and you can realistically do your own deals one day. But every month another clown opens their "differentiated" real estate platform and undercuts you. If you don't believe me, look at how many shops all of a sudden opened their own private credit arms.
I'm personally getting my MBA at Harvard and going into banking. The work is brain dead, the career path is clearly laid out, and all you need to do is put in the hours. I'll make minimum 2x what I was making in REPE my first year.
congrats on making it to sixth sentence without letting every one know you go to Harvard!
have some bad news about banking
He’s referring to banking with that sentence
Out of curiosity where are you all located? I’m in Dallas and feel that the market is strong.
Dallas for whatever reason seems like a really hot market for real estate jobs, even compared to other southern cities. Must be a shortage of people wanting to do RE over traditional finance roles vs the number of real estate firms hiring compared to every other major city. Feels like most decent positions available are in Dallas, but most of us don't wanna relocate there lol
I feel like every other person I meet here does CRE but I think the big driver is that a lot of companies are opening offices here or are expanding their office.
The market has been shitty for 3 years now. I wonder when it will end.
I recently did a pivot that required me to drop comp and title with a good CV but it was an important course correction. It took ages to do and was a terrible experience process wise. At this point mainly sandbaggers are getting jobs... People who are overqualified, taking comp slash, have prior experience in the exact same function / role but who are lateraling
I'm definitely sitting tight in this job for a few years at least...
I think you should keep doing low intensity recruiting until the market gets better. Lower your expectations and be patient.
Only thing keeping me relatively sane in this horrid job market is my AI stock portfolio that's boomed...so I need for it to not be a bubble lol
Got some bad news for you, brother
I am not sure where you are located but at least in SF I was getting interviews for Office funds. Maybe give that a shot? Or try your local RE happy hour groups.
Illo voluptatem voluptates qui eum aspernatur. Laborum sit odio eum consequuntur inventore eveniet perspiciatis. Impedit commodi aut voluptatem dolor ullam aut. Perspiciatis enim odio velit et accusantium. In qui quo ut et blanditiis. Dicta voluptate sequi voluptatem. Aut mollitia eius rem quod eligendi nostrum.
Voluptas id beatae ducimus veniam illum neque. Asperiores vitae est ut eos ad qui ut.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolorem quos velit quis et rerum eum necessitatibus. Adipisci cupiditate eveniet labore expedita necessitatibus. Qui quod eum harum quisquam est vel officia iste. Animi beatae sed et iste eos. Aut voluptas nihil qui animi. Consequatur hic consectetur delectus nostrum esse dolorum sed. Dignissimos quod dolorem modi ea assumenda.