Return to Office Sucks
Who else has returned? It’s now been 1 month since my office returned (4 days with Fridays WFH) and I thought I had wanted too, but it sucks. I am realizing how much more productive I was WFH. Why?
Maybe I log on a bit late a day or step out to run an errand if no hot fire drill or call, maybe I log off earlier than I would if I was in the office, go workout/eat and log back on at night. All of this, I still got my work done and our team achieved more than any other team. It’s almost as if the office is a more distracting atmosphere then just being alone at home. Flexibility was the number one thing.
Corporations or any firms who have returned are in for a rude awakening in the coming months when people try and leave to go work fully remote somewhere. We already lost three Analysts.
Not to mention housing and rent have exploded. No one wants to pay obscene prices to be commuting distance to nyc seattle la Boston DC sf etc.
Actually a lot of people want to, hence the obscene prices.
Jokes aside, the populations of some of these areas have actually declined significantly in the past 1-2 yrs.
houses don't turn over fast at all in these areas, super limited supply and only a few thousand houses trade each year. it's not like everyone bought a $1.5MM house in the Bay Area at $1.5MM. in fact, the majority of them bought it at a much more reasonable basis and are squatting on it due to Prop 13 rights. I'm sure 85% of homeowners in the Bay Area couldn't buy their own homes back at the current market value with the jobs they currently have.
Less want to, more can and have to.
Most firms around my area are all in office operations again. Considering I am looking to rent or purchase my own place now, it's been a struggle. Rent prices, along with mortgage prices have gone way out of control. I'm quite curious if we will ever see price stabilization.
When we switch currency
Haven't most RE firms been at least hybrid for the last 12 months? IIRC this was one of the first industries to lead the RTO.
My firm has been back in the office since June 2021, though it's still fairly flexible (partly due to the nature of development), so I take Fridays from home. I didn't have to ask anyone, I just do and no one has said anything about it.
Those analysts, and whatever other juniors are leaving out there, are easily replaceable (like always), but especially in today's market.
You can find plenty of hungry kids who don't give one fuck about going into the office.
My anecdotal experience is good talent is tough to find right now even interns and analysts, they have so many options in this market.
There's a huge drain of talent in SF/NY for analysts. Tech is draining all the talent. Quite frankly, I don't blame the kids. Why bother getting paid less while having less flexibility? Tons of jobs in tech in a business type role which don't require any technical knowledge these days.
Heck, my company lost a few analyst (1 to 2 years out of undergrad) to prop tech start ups, data analyst roles at big tech companies, or supply chain type roles at tech companies.
I've seen this as well at my firm, analysts leaving for tech or something completely separate from RE. All the while getting amazing comp packages.
What sort of business type roles are you referring to where you don't need a technical background?
That is a dumb way of looking at it, do you really think seniors want to constantly retrain people which for some finance jobs, can take weeks and months to do properly? That and having to constantly be recruiting.
You will just end up with the desperate crumbs who are desperate to break into finance no matter what, i.e. you will no longer have the brightest and the best.
Lots of shit companies think it's post 2008 where they can pay peanuts and still get top talent because everyone was out of a job and desperate, it's a completely different market now, and they still act surprised when they can't pay under market for the best talent, even at the analyst level.
Yea you can say Analystz just need a pulse, but those people haven't encountered how bad the talent can get, it can get really really bad
I have been remote since COVID, with a job change. I'm currently able to log on/off whenever I want (so long as to fit meetings/calls and deadlines obviously), and it is absolutely life changing. Long gym sessions in the mornings without being rushed, able to walk and play with my dog a few times a day, eat healthy at home instead of going to lunch, save money on parking, food, commute, etc. I was pretty early on in my career before COVID happened, and was in the office 5 days/week, and sure, maybe being in the office would help with exposure/promotions/etc but I can't see myself ever going back to being in the office more than 2-3 days/week max. Also if you just do a good job, you will be recognized for it. At my level I don't think it matters too much meeting face-to-face several days a week; monthly has worked fine with my manager and I. I'm much healthier and happier and it's just not worth it.
Anyways, we are hiring analysts so will be in the office for their first few months, and not really looking forward to it.
I can see 2-3 days a week being a norm. Most firms are 5 days already.
Sounds right. Luckily, in my case, I "negotiated" a WFH accommodation when interviewing for my new job. My manager basically told me even if our company mandates a return to office, with a set number of days/week in the office, they would be able to find a way to accommodate what we discussed before I was hired. Basically just making me a "remote" employee, which has its downsides as well..
I’m back in office 2 days a week and can 100% agree that I’m less productive in the office. An hour commute each way plus the time it takes to get ready in the morning is lost time. Also, having people next to you in the office, it’s easy to just get up and chat about extraneous topics. Not complaining about being 2 days because I think it’s very generous.
I feel like the real estate companies forcing people in the office 4-5x a week just to prove that being in the office is “the way to go”, are really missing the point. Office occupancy is never going back to pre-COVID. Crime is up in the major cities and expenses all around are through the roof. The younger people have seen corporations have record years during WFH. So we know for a fact that we do not actually need to be in the office to be profitable. I feel like going to the office is only productive if you plan on grabbing lunch with a colleague in the industry or meeting new people at happy hour - basically activities where you get out and meet folks.
Just my two cents. By the way, I hope nobody listens to the forecasts and opinions given by anyone in real estate whose companies has a major stake in office buildings (yes, talking about SL Green & Related).
I prefer to be at home as well and granted, I work in NYC and live in NYC, but I think people (maybe just me) are just as productive but less efficient from home. It could be just me, but I have seen it in people on my team and my girlfriend. I think hybrid is the way to go 3-4 days a week, but I think that comes with specific job duties and seniority. If you are supposed to be mentoring junior staff / are the junior team getting up to speed on something, then going in is much more efficient.
The WFH lifestyle you're describing is great for a young buck who lives on their own or maybe with a GF or roommate. I'm actually way more productive in the office than I am at home due to personal preference and because I have 2 young kids running around, needing attention, coming into my office to play, etc. It helps that my commute is only 15 minutes. Bouncing quick questions off my boss is so much easier in the office than from home and the Investment committee meetings were a nightmare during WFH with everyone talking and asking questions at the same time over Zoom calls. I do miss the extra time with my wife & kids and wish I could have 1 day a week at home, but that's not an option where I work. Unfortunately I think that policy is going to hurt us with recruiting over the next 5-10 years.
Same circumstances, and I agree.
I think we all have "slow" days where there is not much to do and you could do nothing for half the day. I think it would be a great initiative to start including "banked" WFH days in offer letters. 20-40 days a year where you can WFH. I would think Fridays in the summer would be a good place to spend those WFH days, especially meaning most people could travel on Thursday night, and clock off at 4pm/5pm on Friday at your destination.
Return to the office is fucking balls.
It only benefits the young kid fresh from college or the rich families that own homes with a super short / pleasant commute into the office.
For everyone else, it's fucking miserable.
2 hours+ round trip, commute costs, lunch costs, mental drain of commuting.
Yeah no thanks, I'll fucking pass.
I work in the Bay Area, and I laugh at any real estate company trying to get people back into the office 5 days a week while these tech companies are draining all the talent.
It's kind of funny that we work in an industry that is all based off "comps" and these morons can see the "comps" / alternative to working in real estate.
I'm a broker and have been in the office since April 2020, and really need that separation from work/home and the camraderie of my team. I was living in an absolute shithole of an apartment at the time so WFH was terrible, lonely, and gross. Maybe now with a better apt it wouldn't be so bad, but the ability to bounce ideas off each other in the office is critical. Yeah, there are for sure more distractions at the office, but for myself, the energy needed to be an effective broker is much more easily achieved in a collaborative team environment at the office.
I will add that brokerage has always had a culture of flexi-Fridays so it's more 4+1 flex than 5 days straight.
First off, this isnt my first time in the office, so I know what the downsides could be but still RTO has been a disaster even if I knew going back what the issues were. I live only 10 mins from the office and I WFH 2 days a week, so I have it pretty good compared to most people but still it's almost comical how RTO has been so far. First, morning hours are some of my most productive hours. Even with a 10 minute commute, it's not like I roll out of bed and go the the office. I have to get ready, dress up (I know, we all did it before, but hey the cat is out the bag now, we proved we didnt have to do this shit we did in order to be productive). It takes me at least 30 minutes to get out the door, then with a 10 minute commute, park and to get to my desk, that's another 20 minutes. This is almost one hour of wasted time that I could have used to knock out so much work at home. And it's not one hour at 3 PM where there can be a lull, it's 8-9 AM where I am super productive. Then you fucking have that one or two people who are fucking loud and will not shut up. In my experience, it's always the fucking closers/transaction coordinators who will just be yapping. Then the air conditioner that we cannot control. Sure seems silly, but look we have a choice. We arent fireman who do not have a choice when it comes to choosing how and where we want to work. I know we all put up with it before but I just dont want to and dont have to anymore. Sure, some in person interaction helps, but c'mon do not do mental gymnastics to convince yourself you need to be in the office 5 days a week. That's some serious wage slave mentality. Even when I was going to the office 5 days a week, there were times where you just have to sit around twiddling your thumbs but you could not leave due to optics. I am now in the stage of my life where I can say fuck optics, I do not need to be in the office 5 days a week. Max, it's 3 days for me and that cannot be monday or friday. If my employer will not agree, that's fine, I can find an employer that does.
yeah life's too fucking short for 5 days in the office.
i started going back 1 to 2 days a week and without fail i'm mentally fucking exhausted after the commute without fail.
Fucking terrible, sat in traffic for 40 min today because people can’t drive. Could have been at home taking a shit on my own toilet instead.
Just here to say I also hate commuting and loved the ability to get a quick workout in, pick up the dry cleaning etc when I was wfh. 2-3 days in the office for me is the sweet spot.
Not trying to be funny but what was you dry cleaning when wfh?
i worked 1-2 days in office, also weddings and shit
To add here on productivity of WFH vs RTO..sitting in vs dialing in on internal calls. If I have to sit in person on an internal meeting where I do not even participate, I am stuck pretending I am paying attention vs if I dialed in at home, I can multi task. Having back to back to back in person meetings and being away from desk for hours is not productive at all.
There is an assumption here that you have to compromise and work at least 2-3 days in the office. You don't. In fact, part of the appeal of being full time remote is the ability to live wherever you want and create a lifestyle that works for you. For people like me who are somewhat established in their career and don't aspire to the c-suite, going full time remote is the way (if you want it). For me, work is secondary to personal life, and even going into the office 2-3 days each week is too much. I went back to the office full time because a new job required it, and I will never in a million years go back to this arrangement. The costs vastly outweigh the benefits.
Flexible/remote work is biggest improvement in white collar labor conditions that most of us have experienced in our lifetimes, and probably the biggest improvement in the past 50 years. We have proven that we don't need to live a life that revolves around a daily 9-5 which barely allows any time for anything but getting ready for, or decompressing from work and commuting. We now have the ability to craft our lives the way we want them. I am going back to full time remote work, and you can too.
The four day work week is next.
This is key, full time remote work basically means you can live anywhere with a stable internet connection. Truly life changing. I would really value that flexibility unfortunately I am in the office three days a week atm. - AVP commercial banking
JPM PB Chicago quietly announced 4 days a week in office. Fucking ridiculous. Not to sound like a bitch but this shit is not worth it.
wtf man are you serious. is this for the whole pb or just like bankers?
Agree completely. I'm a development analyst 2 years out of UG. I'm glad I was in the office for the first 6 months (even though I had to wear a mask all day), but now wish I was remote. Allows for much more flexibility. If I have dual monitors and a quiet work space I will be fine.
I'm currently seeking a fully remote development analyst role, but its so hard to come by because boomers and gen x'ers run development shops and hate the concept. Eventually they'll have to give in if they want to retain young talent.
We just got a new CEO who is a total dipshit. He keeps emphasizing return to office for everyone. Let's be honest, everyone here has spent time twiddling their thumbs. Anyone that's says they are productive and busy everyday is full of shit. We have slow periods and busy periods just like any industry. Management wants us to sit in the office and breathe oxygen until 5pm on days when we have nothing to do. Then I gotta go with a one hour commute home. Oh but then the boomers respond by saying move closer to the office. These same fuckers make 10x what I do and can afford to pay prices to live beside the office.
We live in a new world now. Upper management wants us to be robots and do nothing. They keep talking about culture.
Worst thing I hate is our new CEO took over and said the words "Time to end the two year vacation we had". Like seriously? What an asshole, he really thought we were living in the Bahamas for two years and just chilling when our company had the biggest record profit in history. WFH isn't a vacation but it allows us to be flexible when there's nothing to do.
People referring to the last 2 years as a vacation really pisses me off. It was hell at times, going 1-2 weeks at a time in 1 bed apt working 14+ hours a day without any real in person conversations because of restrictions - all while they shovelled whatever shit deals they could find down our throats from their plush 4000 sqft home so they could convince themselves we were busy. People who only trust their staff to work when they can see (monitor in reality) them in person are generally shit bosses to deal with in the first place - hybrid and WFH has helped prove this.
Number one question potential junior hires are asking is what’s the remote work policy. If you aren’t flexible, you’ll lose the best candidates - been the most recent experience in our end
Very interesting to contrast this with the beginning of WFH when most juniors seemed to hate it https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/any-other-juniors-exhausted-due-…; On my team at least, everyone was complaining about being on call 24/7 and lack of networking and development of skills / career
I think people are so used to working from home that they dread going back into the office, but a lot of it is probably resistance to change (at the junior level at least, if you've been on the team for years/know everyone/can do your job its probably different). both have their pros/cons, ideally i think Id want to be in 2 days a week or so but with the option to go remote whenever i want and no pressure to go in.
You are in IB, the link you posted was posted in the IB forum. This is the RE forum, we have different interests and hence a different lifestyle. We also have a better work life balance, anything (like 5 days in the office) that interferes with that will be disliked.
thank you for speaking on behalf of your entire industry
https://nypost.com/2022/03/30/junior-goldman-sachs-bankers-threaten-to-…
The comments to that article made me irrationally angry
LOL - holy shit the comments are wild
2021 was mostly a mix of hybrid and fully remote WFH and banks delivered blockbuster results. They’ve competed to become technologically efficient. Every shop has its way of running things and for months thrived on being fully remote. They gave some work life balance to folks that really needed it - the analyst working past 3am now getting to go straight to bed at parents home and eating healthier meals, the associate who now gets to spend more time with gf and not missing dates/milestones as often, the young mom who is trying to raise a toddler while managing VP responsibilities, the list goes on. Even as I think of these examples, man, the standards are so low. No wonder many people were at their breaking points.
It has been a challenging year for mental health, but guess what? People finally have the mental capacity and time to recognize and address the mental health issues precisely because they have a better work life balance rather than letting work blur it out. You can’t heal a bleeding wound unless you look at it. This is undeniable. I firmly believe that employees of most levels who were able to work from home were net beneficiaries, especially those in IB/PE etc that were crunched for time.
Why are they undoing this progress? Is it that seniors need to start flying to see clients, score a one-up with the CEO over rival banks? Do they just want to get back in motion early in anticipation of a shift in trend back to how it used to be? Or maybe it’s the idea of flying business class, feeling important, collecting prestige status like points that are part of their self image that were lost for some time driving the desire. That, perhaps with some underlying need to get away from the wife and kids for a few days to preserve the marriage. Hey, may be they will fish out a deal or two along the way. Who knows.
What I do know is when seniors are in the office, they expect to see their juniors also down the hall, chained to their desks, wasting no time conjuring support materials for whatever the secret sauce the MD came up with in his daydream. It’s part to drive perceived efficiency (seeing you at your desk working makes me feel better than not knowing if you’re watching Netflix at home, because we’re all insecure), part pettiness (you have it much easier than when I was your age, so why should I give you any break), and partly a bs litmus test (if you are more agreeable, you’re more likely to do as you’re told, and therefore I am more likely able to push work down your throat in my favor, and thus more likely to keep you all else equal - those who don’t, there’s the door).
I don’t agree with the logic at all. We should all just work from home. For the few occasions we need to meet in person or fly, so be it, but respect everyone’s time. That’s what it boils down to, isn’t it? Mutual respect. Few things can harm businesses more than giving employees a taste of “happiness” only to take it away - especially when things are going well and giving WLB to employees comes at no cost.
Or maybe it's the idea of flying business class, feeling important, collecting prestige status like points that are part of their self image that were lost for some time driving the desire.
^^
this can't be overstated. a lot of senior professionals dedicated their lives to this work. they didn't get to coach their kids team, have hobbies, etc. their images are built around their professional success and covid undid many facets of that image.
Or maybe it's the idea of flying business class, feeling important, collecting prestige status like points that are part of their self image that were lost for some time driving the desire.
^^^^
You hit the nail on the head here. I think in general, prestige points are something the Boomers, Gen-x have always chased. I don't mean that judgmentally, because I understand the desire to gain prestige, and who doesn't want to be liked? I just think Millennials and Gen-z view careers and life through a different lens, partly caused by COVID and WFH. We can do good work, and still enjoy our life, but at the end of the day, being able to enjoy our lives trumps most everything else, including a prestigious career and I think finding the balance between meaningful work and a nice life is easier to obtain now. Also, I think younger generations are more financially literate than older generations were at our age (as a result of easily accessible resources to self educate, i.e. internet) and this allows us to realize that we don't need to be in a prestigious career to be financially and emotionally secure.
Try working from home with infrant/ toddlers. People who managed this are the real heroes of COVID.
We just had a call today - no mandates but they want us to try Tu/Wed/Thu. I don’t mind it, my wfh is way more efficient and comfortable but it’s nice switching it up.
Ha. WSO spying on me. I literally just walked in to the office on day 1 of starting to get into more of a regular return to office routine, and was just thinking "do I like being back, or no?" when WSO sent me a notification for this post lol. I feel your pain. There are elements of being back in the office that I like, but I'm not sure if I'm ready for this...
I agree. Flexibility is key to a balanced lifestyle, if that’s what makes you fulfilled and content. I prefer a hybrid 2-3 days in the office. That way on slower days, I can, like you mentioned, run some errands and get some shit done that I wouldn’t be able to in the office. All while still being productive.
Being in the office is the worst thing for anxiety and weight gain
I like being able to WFH on Monday or Friday, but legitimately don't understand the complaints about returning to office for real estate folks. Unless you're 100% focused on resi or industrial, seems somewhat important to walk the walk. And if you're under 40, no easier way to differentiate yourself than showing up when others won't.
If you're in tech or banking I understand the complaints as it's very easy to do remotely, but in a relationship business like real estate it makes no sense not to be in-person. Additionally, no easier way to get companies to offshore knowledge work than refusing to return to office. Just my $0.02.
We are two years in, how can you still not understand why many people would prefer to WFH? As a relationship expert, it might help to develop some empathy. I also don't understand how being in the office with your colleagues has anything to do with building relationships with clients and making outside connections. This can be done from a home base and going to meetings when necessary.
The whole argument about offshoring work just doesn't make sense either. It's not going to happen. There is a level of specialized knowledge for certain RE niches that an offshore worker will never have. If companies figured out a way to save a significant amount of money by hiring offshore workers that were actually of sufficient quality, they would fire you too even if you are an office hero.
Trust me, I have a pregnant wife who likes me at home so I have plenty of empathy for preferring WFH some days. My point was more that if you are developing and selling office buildings, it is very difficult to sell that proposition to clients if you yourself are working from home. If the developer or broker doesn't need an office, then why would your client?
The offshoring work comment was not directed at real estate folks - that was directed at knowledge workers like tech / finance where companies have and continue to offshore jobs.
Being in the office is the worst thing for anxiety and weight gain
100% agree. I can’t focus at the office and I usually find myself thinking “once I’m back home I can focus and get this done.” Also, I’m so much less stressed when I’m wfh, I am much more ok with working long hours when I’m home vs when I’m ITO
The people mandating RTO are out of touch and will frankly be left behind over the next decade. There isn’t a stomach for office life anymore. Reduce your campus size and offer the office as a space for retreats/annual meetings/or anyone who desires to have a separate work space. That’s the strategy and if you’re not pursuing it, you’re making a mistake.
Sure, there will be those companies who go down kicking and screaming on this. There are those right now licking their lips for a cooling of the job market just so they can force people back into their towers. But the can has been opened, and the genie is not going back in the bottle.
Besides, with all the pro employee initiatives these companies try to push, why is office optional not at the forefront? If you’re worried about productivity, do a better job of managing your people. Time in the office does not equal time being productive. Top performers will make their performance evident regardless of where they’re located.
I'm definitely a bit surprised at how most really are not a fan of returning to the office but I think the kind of management you are under and the general offering from your employer can make a difference. My current work is pretty flexible with how i craft my schedule, we are in the office pretty much daily, people do work remotely a few days a week but I work in development and it involves so many moving parts to it that in-person collaboration just makes it more efficient than having a conference/zoom call with technical issues or emails back and forth where you need to catch up on what the answer is to a specific question.
I think you should definitely shoot for what works best in your setup. I personally enjoy coming into the office, but i think my setup is much more favorable. I was previously in a role where i would have done wfh permanently but realistically i wanted to some separation between work and home.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I think being unable to communicate and task effectively online is a skill a lot of people haven’t but will need to develop going forward. I think there are very few jobs that can’t be done 100% remote, rather it is more of a lack of skills.
For instance, you reference technical issues, but those honestly shouldn’t be a regularity. And trust me, my old job had them all the time, but it was mostly because a lot of finance people have really poor skills even with basics like knowing how to share a screen or change a microphone input.. which is embarrassing and not a reason to return to office
I don't know. We're two years since starting remote work, and there are plenty of people still very awkward with technology. I think internally within your own company at this point you should be capable of communicating online effectively, but I have meetings with external parties quite a bit and utilizing another's conference software can be a bit harrowing because not all software are created equal and there are many other uncontrollable factors that cause lost time. People might forget to unmute themselves or they stay unmuted and there's loud distracting noises in the background, not very intuitive interface for connecting to calls, decline critical updates, or their internet/services suddenly drop for other reasons. I mean you can easily lose 10 to 15 minutes right there trying to troubleshoot those things when that meeting should have only been 20 minutes. The remote world isn't perfect either and this isn't meant to be a super convincing reason that "in-office" is much better it just shows there's still inefficiencies on both sides of the fence.
The book “Deep Work” by Cal Newport talks about this a lot. In essence the book is about the need to incorporate stints of “deep work” into your learning (I.e. totally free from distraction; thinking about the task deeply rather than “shallow work”). It presents a lot of research found that shows that “collaborative environments”, constant emails and instant messaging totally distract us and create “distraction residue”. They make us feel like we’re “keeping busy” with suboptimal output
And working from home with a screaming baby is a nightmare. Going to the office allows me to focus in a way that I can’t do at home.
And it’s becoming very, very obvious who the performers are - there is a huge difference between those who show up when needed, and those who look for every reason in the sky to continue working from home.
Please note that my comment is geared more toward junior level employees. Senior employees can and should have a little more flexibility as they have already proven they can do the work.
I don't get the screaming baby argument unless you have a stay at home parent who watches the kid at home.
If you both go to the office, don't you send the baby to daycare?
Can't you drop the baby off at daycare and still work from home?
We're seeing people apply elsewhere on our team to places that allow WFH. CEO emphasized that it would hurt their future career goals. It hasn't. People are getting offers 20%-30% more for remote work compared to in office. Let's also be honest the upper management stating it's gonna hurt your ability to be promoted is a lie. It's already difficult to move up in the company even if you go into the office everyday.
im not a junior person by any means but i finally broke into "finance" by getting a back offie role at a large bank y'all have heard of as a data/software developer guy
i just got a new job at a tech company that is fully remote and 20%+ increase in pay. returning to the office was one of the reasons why i decided to leave
Its tough to believe that so many people prefer working from home. Waking up and not seeing anybody and just work 12 hours staright? impossible for a young employee to enjoy that. sometimes i doubt credibility of wso members. 99% content on this website sound like a teenager faking pretending and selling their personal.opinion as industry expertise . anyone young who had work experience of couple of years pre covid would have enjoyed going back at their desk. I know flexibility makes life easy. I am know how good it must be for married couples who have kids. ...but for someone who is young, especially capable of working at a IB cant live without social interaction.
What's your commute to work?
I'm 2 hours RT in commute time alone door to door. Then tack on another 15 to 30 minutes to get "ready"?
Yeah no thanks.
You do realize that working from home doesnt equal no human interaction? You can and will see people outside of work every single day, whether its running errands, seeing family, meeting up with friends, etc. Anyone who "cant live without seeing people" who WFH will go out and see people. This notion that WFH takes away all human interaction and working in the office saves social people is absurd. This isnt lockdown, any one who is truly social and craves lots of human interaction every single day will get it without much effort. I think something the younger generation does well socially is make friends outside of work.
dude. I worked from home for 18 months. I missed my work place. I dont think people actually meet each other unless on a weekend. Its just my experience that the daily dose of human interaction I need, I get from my job. Right now I am doing an MSc in London and I go to library 5 days a week. Lets not make this a place of forcing personal opinions on each other. If you like WFH then its good for you. I just hope that people understand personal preferences. WSO forum is well know for getting opinions flooded by college students who had 1 year of enthusiasm to break into high finance. Then they realize that they wouldn't like working on spreadsheets and ppts.
Then there are people especially from New York who are facing extra ordinary rents. People who actually got a 100k job, who want to work 5-7 years and get out and do something of their own. Its bad that real wages are not good enough in other jobs and people only want to work in finance so they can make a quick buck. Its overall a shitty situation and I feel them. I guess i was over stepping by forcing my opinion on others because i have no idea what its like to live and commute in New York. So i take that back.
You’re an associate and correlating your own experienced productivity working from home to your entire team outperforming other teams - Thanks for the laugh. Everyone’s different, people need to stop thinking it’s their way or the highway. I know plenty of people who prefer office and plenty who prefer WFH, to each their own. I personally am stimulated more when working in office surrounded by my team. I also live in a high-income beach city, so although rent prices are high they aren’t shithole SF/NY high.
Juniors who only want to wfh so they can skate by are in for a rude awakening! In 3-5 years when more is demanded of us and all you have done is skate by at home, you’re screwed. Corps know this, hence one of the reasons they want juniors back in the office.
3 days a week is not a big deal but will likely do wonders for our careers.
Sincerely,
A junior who worked in the office almost entirely the past 2 yrs.
that sucks bro, full time in the office?
All the techies working from home playing Valorant / watching Netflix half the day while earning double is laughing to the bank.
and you’re in real estate - How’s that 60k starting salary!
Just so disconnected from reality. Read the other posts in the thread
What specific skills/knowledge that you need later in your career do you mean that one misses by skating by? Would be great to hear examples.
You're missing out on making friends and forming/developing those relationships if you're WFH
who goes to work to make friends? lol. work to get paid
Most people in their 20s (after college) form their core friendships from people they interact with at work. It's where you spend most of your waking hours in a week. For example, you're more likely to be living close together, you're most likely have experiences together in and out of work, grabbing dinner after work, hanging out on the weekends outside of work, etc.
It's one of the reasons why some adults in their 20s, even after having a thriving social life in college, fail to have a really good group of friends, not just acquaintances
Taking a step back, I'd love to be a fly on the wall for a conversation between a city or state official and the member of a major C-Suite company in a town (any industry really). Revenue from public transportation has gotten absolutely hammered and I'd imagine that there has to be some apprehension about property tax revenue if assessors can't justify property values (if I'm off on either of these assumptions someone please fact check me). We're all rightfully juggling what's best for us whether it's in-person or WFO, but there's got to be some real consequences with major CBD districts still hurting for crowds.
no shit. all the big cities are sweating balls right now. that's why there was such a big push for RTO from government.
Sucks to be them.
All of you need to stop writing on WSO and get back to your 2 hour commutes!
Time to make some friends at work bitches! You better stay there until every senior manager leaves for the day. If there's nothing to do we don't care, we own you and you better sit your ass in that chair until every senior manager leaves. HAHAHA. You're all our minions and slaves. You better hop back on that hamster wheel and make money for your masters. We spent hundreds of thousands on office space so we can see our slaves work.Now let's drop this WFH nonsense and get back to work! Remember we'll be sure to have a pizza party once every three months so we can have a fantastic culture to share. Enjoy your commutes and the gas prices minions.
Sincerely,
CEO Boomer Moneybags Sr.
Haha that's how these salty ass boomers sound in this thread
dude no one here is advocating 100 hours work week. Most of us here are emphasizing on social value that a work place adds to your life. May be all companies you worked for had toxic culture. And your experiences were not good. That other dude is complaining about 2 hours commute....i hate two hours commute as well. but all companies and institutes i worked at and studied at have given me great social experiences. so I hate two hours commute but like the 10 hours i spend at the work place. If most of you hate your work places then i am sorry for you. May be look for a change.
I think you have different preferences in life. Your young and probably don't have kids so being in the office works for you. When I was your age, it made sense for me, but WFH or RTO is not one size fits all.
My wife and I have two kids. Both are young. I understand the crying kids argument but childcare costs around $30k a year for one child. This is $60k for both. My wife is a doctor so she can't WFH. I'm able to WFH, be productive and get to spend time with my children, and save $60k.
WFH allows flexibility and has been able to do so without seeing any decline in productivity. The most annoying part has been management that tells us to commute with rising gas prices, rising inflation, and expensive childcare, while wages have not risen high enough to cover the increase in costs. I'm aware certain jobs require you to be in the office, but many including our industry have the ability to WFH. What we do doesn't require a physical office.
However, in an era where employees now have the power, management will need to learn to listen or risk massive brain drain of talent.
Going to copy and paste my response to you:
Most people in their 20s (after college) form their core friendships from people they interact with at work. It's where you spend most of your waking hours in a week. For example, you're more likely to be living close together, you're most likely have experiences together in and out of work, grabbing dinner after work, hanging out on the weekends outside of work, etc.
It's one of the reasons why some adults in their 20s, even after having a thriving social life in college, fail to have a really good group of friends, not just acquaintances
Imagine commuting 2 hours to work - you poor to live closer to work mr money bags?
On another note, how have the office guys been coping over the past 2 years? From huge egos driven by working on the sexiest assets to so many people thinking your product is absolutely worthless. Who is Jeff Blau's therapist?
(I'm pro work in office, btw)
Lots of booze and re-sharing our leasing brokers' incessant LinkedIn posts.
Continue to do it, all it takes is people actually leaving and things will continue to change. Corporations will have to understand that they cannot for almost no reason ( or some unproven BS out in space) demand people to come back into the officer because there old boomer minds are used to it. My bank has already adapted, so should yours.
I missed this thread, but I 100% agree that the whole return to office thing blows. Unlike a lot of you, I've been back 5 days a week for something like a year and a half, but yesterday the power went out at my office due to a storm and I got a refresher of how nice it is to just...not be in an office.
I don't think full work from home works for every job, and personally would like to be in the office maybe two days a week or so when needed, but man...five days is so absurd.
The funniest one is "coLaBoRation and InnOvation".
We work in fucking real estate. Nothing is novel. Every fucking thing has been done in some form or another. Some mother fucker moving around a priority on a waterfall, adding a promote hurdle #5, or fucking inserting a mezzanine loan into the capital stack is not fucking new.
The last real novel innovation was pooling and slicing/dicing CMBS in the 1990s.
We're not fucking solving any new problems, not creating a new electric car or new software program where we need to bounce ideas around all day and trouble shoot.
The entire RTO thing baffles me, it is really such a simple solution in a vacuum. Poll your employees on what they want to do Full time, hybrid, work from home and scale your office space down to accommodate that based on headcount. Let everyone do what they prefer to do, you like going into the office 5 days a week? Go for it. How about being in the office 1-2 times a week whenever you feel like coming in? That works too. How about permanent work from home? Perfect. Everyone has different preferences and I think its incredibly short sighted to ignore that and force people to do something one way. People just want to have the flexibility to do what is best for them and not have to be mandated one way or the other.
Agreed. As long as the work gets done.
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