At what age does undergrad GPA no longer matter?
As in, at what age do you stop putting it on your resume?
Nov 03, 2011
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I don't think it's a given age. In theory, there are people who graduate undergrad at 30 and still go into Finance, so GPA is still on their resume.
My guess would be that it's some number of jobs after undergrad or some number of years since entering the workforce.
Once you change your resume from educationally-focused (education on top) to experience-focused, I'd say you can just list your institution and degree and get on with your life. Also, if you have a more recent GPA (i.e. MBA), you'd write that one more prominently (perhaps exclusively).
Ultimately, consider whether your position is for new grads or for experienced hires. If its for more experienced hires, it's a pretty safe bet to leave the GPA out (especially if it wasn't stellar to begin with).
I have only seen 1 MD-level resume, and he had it on there.
I think the better question is when it stops mattering. If you have done 2 years at Goldman and 2 at KKR, I honestly wouldn't care if you had a 1.7 in Basket Weaving from UPhoenix. If you are good, you are good.
There will always be the people that judge based on alma maters and GPAs, but, once you have solid work experience, it matters far less to a lot of people. Low GPA? Maybe you got sick or played multiple varsity sports. Terrible college? Maybe you followed your highschool girlfriend. God knows I have met incompetent Ivy league grads, and state school students (not even "public ivy" grads") far smarter than myself.
where you goto undergrad - no one cares (harvard or community college), you're in high school.
where you goto grad school - matters, you're more mature and that follows you around indefinitely.
It stops mattering when you can demonstrate the ability to make lots of money for people in business with you.
2-3 jobs after graduation. Who cares what you got in Psych 101.
if it's 4.0, it will always matter
+1. If you did great in undergrad, why would you not want a potential employer know that?
By definition, most people are 'average' students in college. Thus, after a little experience, a mediocre GPA from undergrad only hurts the the picture being illustrated by the resume. That being said, it becomes less relevant over time and I think you can get away with leaving it off if it's nothing to write home about.
Undergrad GPA Matters for How Long? (Originally Posted: 04/20/2011)
Like the subject says. For how long is your undergrad GPA relevant or will you be asked about it? Not including for MBA/grad admissions. 2 Years? Until 2nd job? Completely discretionary?
VP and beyond it seems pretty moot. If you're summa or what have you that's a feather you always seems to towt.
dude, until you retire!
i'd say until MBA admission process.
I'd agree with Stringer Bell. Takes a long time for it to go away completely. The good news is, prior work experience starts to trump GPA in terms of importance after your first job.
It actually matters for a long time I think. I'd say that you're done with it once you're getting your SECOND job after MBA. Obviously it matters for all pre-mba jobs, it matters for MBA apps, and it definitely matters for MBA/Associate level recruiting too.... granted the significance of GPA is decreased gradually over time (i.e. for UG recruiting it's the most important thing, for second job it's the 2nd most important thing, after your first job, etc.)
How far out until GPA doesn't matter on resume? (Originally Posted: 05/10/2014)
Say MBA is not something I want to pursue. When does GPA after graduation begin to stop being so important?
So is there a time frame for when GPA on the resume start being taken out? Right after graduation? 1 yr?
I'd say take it off after you get your first job, unless your first job ends up lasting less than a year.
if you're not going for a higher level of education... it doesn't matter after your first job. Some people leave it for a while if it's good, but it's not necessary. On Linkedin anyone 30+ years of age who lists their GPA or tests scores comes across as such a knob
Interesting, thats sooner than I thought. Appreciate you guys chiming in, thanks guys!
I'd say work experience is more relevant than gpa after your 2nd job post-undergrad (if your first job is only a year or 2). So, I guess my answer would be ~3-4 years.
How much does GPA matter after you secure a fulltime job? (Originally Posted: 03/03/2013)
I am currently in a masters program and I have possibly secured a job that I really enjoy. I can graduate in the summer with a 3.3, or go back in the fall too and get it up to a 3.5. More than likely, the firm can be flexible in regards to starting FT in the fall or spring. For the future (switching jobs 3-5 years from now, MBA apps), do you think a 3.3 vs 3.5 would be worth another semester?
For the job, no, not at all.
For a transfer, it will help.
For grad school, yes, get the best grades you can.
Does grad gpa matter once you have a job offer? (Originally Posted: 02/08/2015)
I'm currently finishing my masters, and I got an offer after a summer internship last summer. The contract said it was contingent on "evidence of a degree of at least 2-1" (UK grading system). My undergrad degree is a first, so I already have "a degree of at least 2-1".
I'm assuming this means my graduate marks are unimportant? Or do you think there's a chance they specifically meant "In the degree you're currently studying".
Cheers.
Interesting question. What did you find out since posting the thread?
How far does GPA matter? (Originally Posted: 02/23/2009)
For how long into one's career do you think GPA is actually a factor? I'm a second year analyst in S&T in a bank in a very good situation, but I'm just wondering if this pans out well and I want to try something new in a few years, how much will other places look at GPA? I'm assuming it also depends on whether I'm looking through networking or just submitting resumes places, but how much will other firms look at my performance on the trading floor compared to the classroom?
If inside the firm, very little. Outside, no experience so cant say
it probably matters most if you want to go to Bschool
yeah, i dont have a terrible GPA 3.5 at a target, but it's not great. I already have a BBA degree and think an MBA is a joke (no offense to anyone, just was a TA for an MBA class and thought most of them were a joke) but I would be going back in like 20 years to get ph.d. to teach. Either way, any additional advice would be helpful.
3.5 should be fine with work experience, you will need a masters before your ph.d. and you could get in to a masters with a 3.5 and then impress there to get in to a top ph.d. program
I don't think you need a masters to get a ph.D. At least not at my alumnus, which is a target with an undergrad business school. . .
I'm hardly an expert on it, it was just always my impression that was the logical progression. I could definitely see a masters being redundant, but I also imagine a phd could be very difficult without master's level classes. I'm sure there are better places to ask about phd entry requirements though
Take a look at any business school and see what kind of credentials professors have. Most will have under grad - masters - ph.d
However given that they probably obtained their ph.d many years ago, requirements for ph.d programs may have changed since then.
So many things becoming more and more redundant these days. Yesh, the top schools probably want as many degrees as possible just for show. Lots of politics. Also, not gunning for a top 5 university, just some respectable state school somewhere warm maybe, haha. Just be nice to have a job then, right? Oh how my perspectives have changed. . .
I was under the impression that a university cannot hire someone as a professor unless they have a phd. They may be lecturers, assistant professors or other titles that do similar work, but fully fledged professors earn more and probably have easier access to research grants.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
to list GPA or not? (Originally Posted: 12/10/2013)
If I'm 5 years removed from undergrad at a top 50 school and had a major GPA of 3.3? Given how mediocre my GPA was and that my work experience is now more relevant I'm thinking I shouldn't list the GPA?
You are in a unique position in that you are five years removed from undergrad. In this case, I would actually list your GPA. Although it is mediocre, leaving off your GPA entirely may lead the interviewer to think that your GPA was actually much worse. Not to mention that because you are five years removed, most interviewers would choose to focus more on your recent work experience and may only use your GPA as a rough measure of work ethic, book smarts, etc...
I think this is entirely counterintuitive. If they'll focus on recent endeavors, why throw a shitty, 5-year old data point at them?
I say don't list it. You already went to what sounds like a fairly well-known school and have 5 years of experience. Let the shitty past be the shitty past.
I wouldn't bother. Think about it this way, when you were 5 years removed from high school, did you list your high school GPA? However, this is just my opinion and reasonable people will disagree with me.
Do not list it. I think beyond 3 years of work experience, not many would care about a 3.3GPA from a top 50. I come from a non-target with a bad GPA and I do not list it. I have had about a dozen interviews, only one actually asked about my GPA.
5 years out of undergrad I would even recommend listing your educational experience under your work experience. This will highlight your work experience, since you feel that's more important than your educational experience at this point.
Just my opinion, good luck!
Unless they specifically ask for it to be listed, I wouldn't. Being five years removed, they're really just going to care about your work experience.
Another vote against mentioning it
what position are you interviewing for?
how does your cumulative GPA compare to your major GPA?
if usual suspects (banking, consulting, buyside, etc) in US, then think you should include. if you leave off, people will assume it is bad without knowing + to get hired, someone will eventually want to know
5 years isn't that long, it's not like you're 40..
Does work experience outweigh grades/tests at any point? (Originally Posted: 08/24/2014)
I graduated from college 10 years ago and had ok grades since I was pre-med. I've been thinking about applying for MBAs in the near future and am trying to figure out if my grades will still be a detriment with all the work experience I've accrued since graduating.
Your work experience will be more important than your grades.
I applied to several top schools with 7 years WE and a pretty miserable u/g GPA. I feel that my work experience and simply being a few extra years removed from my grades helped to mitigate their impact. I don't think graded factored out completely, and I definitely took a very active approach to addressing the issue.
How important is low GPA if have been working for around 2 years. (Originally Posted: 11/03/2010)
Hey guys.
Quick question. How important is your GPA once you have been working for around 2 years and wanting to transfer to banking as an analyst?
Quick background. -Currently working at Big4 corporate finance with decent deal experience and exposure -Got through first round interview with Top5 bank (no problem with technical questions) -Now HR wants my transcripts from University -Issue is my marks were average not great from Top University in Canada - I knew I wanted to get my accounting designation so I knew what I needed to get get hired at Big4 so I did not aim for top of class(I also worked 30hrs a week throughout Univeristy, not that it matters) - I did well in related courses (Finance, math, eco etc), but didnt care about Tax (i hate tax) so those marks stand out. - Is it worth it to spin a story, or just send them a quick note "happy to discuss" and leave it that - I am/was top ranked in terms of performance at my time at Big4 and I passed all my accoutning designations in one shot (I was motivated)
Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks
Yeah, I mean you've got no other choice if you want to move forward. I would reach out to the most senior person you've interviewed with at the bank and explain the situation. Deal with HR as little is possible and go over their heads every chance you get. Don't send them SHIT with your transcripts. Talk to your senior guys first before you even send them and do what they say.
Agree with the above poster. At this point, just go ahead and submit your transcripts and hope that you make the cut. They've already interviewed with you, and you've at least made it into the interview pool, which means you know they're interested in possibly hiring you.
I've been in your position before, and in all honesty, once you've been out of school for a couple of years, grades don't matter nearly as much. This could be more of a "check the box" kind of requirement, rather than them actually screening you based on your grades.
Graduated 5+ yrs ago - Employer still cares about GPA? (Originally Posted: 02/22/2008)
Up until what point of your career, would employer care about your GPA and request a copy of your college transcript?
Say, you graduated 5+ years ago (with a not stella GPA), have years of work experience (both finance related and non-related), but it's your first "I-banking" job you're applying for.
Would employer still ask for your college GPA and demand to see your transcript? Or they would focus more on your experience and just request a copy of your dimploma perhaps?
i can't imagine GPA would even be an issue if you have solid experience. if they actually care, i would re-think about wanting to work at that firm
Thanks mlamb93.
The reason why Im asking is that.... when I read those job descriptions for post-MBA Associate positions, I more than often see, "proven strong academic performance", i.e. strong MBA GPA. Some of them go even further and say, "strong UNDERGRADUATE GPA required" for post-MBA Associae position, usually provided with specific number they are looking for (3.5+/4.0)
That got me thinking... if employers are asking for undergraduate GPA from candidates for post-MBA positions, how much more emphasis would they have on undergraduate GPA from candidates for pre-MBA positions? (I only have Bachelor's degree from a non-target with a not stella GPA)
Apply for all positions regardless of what they ask for. Never let the descriptions deter you. They are describing their ideal candidates, and often times you have more to bring to the table than the others.
Thanks GameTheory for the encouraging words. I will definitely apply for all. Hopefully they will find my experience valuable and see enough potential to take a chance on me.
Explaining GPA after 5 years of experience (Originally Posted: 10/28/2016)
I was accepted to a UK top 3-5 MSc Economics program 5 years of experience in economics research and policy support. I have three research articles that include quantitative analysis and while not academic-journal level are similar to the level of an average master's thesis and better than an undergraduate honors thesis.
My undergrad GPA is horrible to say the least(3.0). Frankly I had a somewhat rough youth(my family went from very rich(tens of millions at least) to middle class within one or two years after I was born, therefore parents fought often). I was bullied on occasion, was robbed twice etc. I had culture shock in college with all the drugs and sex -- I'm an international student. Nothing devastating but on aggregate it's more difficult to handle high levels of stress. UK MScs are not US PhDs when it comes to admissions, but still the uni was pretty generous to accept me.
Anyways a few weeks into the program I am getting emails from companies inviting me to apply for networking events to economics consulting firms. So I furnished a CV that was well-tailored(I think) but the problem is is that I can't write my GPA on the CV. Moreover, I went to an ivy league undergrad so the company might think why I hadn't applied directly to US PhD programs when I say I am committed to economics research, which in turn might lead them to doubt my GPA.
Other than my GPA my gmat score is 710/800 (with just 2 weeks prep, which I wrote on the CV) and I seem to be doing okay in the MSc program. i.e. I had no math background whatsoever but just after some preparation I got a merit on my pre-sessional maths test, after missing two really easy questions. I was also anxious about my BRP and immigration not being in order and not having accommodation during the first three weeks or so during the presessional maths period.
Should I send my GPA explanation essay and my statement of purpose (which is less than 1 page long) to the company who has invited me? Or should I let the CV do the job and pray that they will not be concerned about my GPA?
Honestly, I would let it ride without the GPA; these companies are obviously interested in you even without knowing your GPA, and you are in a top UK program/went to an Ivy for UG and have 5 yrs of WE all that should take care of any concerns they might have with your UG GPA and/or capability to do the job. Worst case scenario is that they bring it up in an interview, so I would have an explanation ready along with how you've developed academically/professionally in the time since UG.
Also, if you have an GPA from Msc I would include that.
Additionally to the comment above, don't focus all their attention on your GPA by pointing it out. Just leave it out and in case you get asked, mention it and provide a short explanation that shows that you have learned from back then.
How important is your GPA even if you have years of work experience? (Originally Posted: 07/23/2016)
I've heard so many mixed things about how a lot of reputable business schools view GPA. On one hand, the average is at least a 3.5 at most but on the other, I read of sites claiming how even people with GPAs in the low 2s were able to make it into top 20 business schools due to a great gmat score and a unique story.
What is usually the case with people with low 2s GPA that make it into reputable business (top 25) schools?
You're always going to find the answers you'e looking for. You know what you want to hear. The only thing you're doing is worrying. If the majority of answers fall in one direction are you going to structure new goals off of them? Are you willing to give up before you even try and change what you really want to do based off of a few user's responses? I hope not. I know you are looking for answers and trying to calm your mind, but you really shouldn't be. Focus on what you can control and don't let the fire in your heart be extinguished. You are going to always find stories and responses that contraindicate each other. It's all irrelevant as you're obviously already doubting yourself by asking the question, you're already letting pessimism creep in. Be confident, focus on doing the best you can right now, and don't worry about the statistics of it all. If you work hard, life has a funny way of working things out in your favor. Although I may be contradicting my own comment, I look forward to hearing about the successes you one day share with other members. Best of luck.
Thank you. I was a bio major as an undergrad and am looking to break into IB at some point, business school will be necessary for that.
Great advice! +SB
GMAT and work experience are more important. Just have a reliable couple sentence explanation for why your GPA wasn't very good.
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