College Decision (Canadian vs US schools)
Hi, I am currently a high school senior in Toronto, and don't know any finance professionals so I would like to get some advice. I would like to pursue a career going into the sell-side in NYC. I applied to collection of Canadian and Amercian schools, and am currently not sure about whether the additional cost is worth going south as I have to finance the degree myself. I have always enjoyed working with numbers, and like the competitive nature of banking while working in a team setting. I am not set on any particular position, but would like to be well positioned to go into any part of the sell-side. I plan on majoring in Econ/business. Any input would be appreciated!
Stat Line: 1580 SAT, 3.94 GPA
Accepted:
Western Richard Ivey - Full Scholarship
UNC - 20K Scholarship
NYU- 15K Scholarship
Michigan - 15K Scholarship
Duke - 10K Scholarship
Columbia - No Scholarship
Yale - No Scholarship
Edit: (08/04/2020) I accepted my offer to go to Yale, and would like to thank the WSO community for the advice.
Go to Yale and don’t look back.
Ivey full scholarship is a pretty good option...they generally recruit well into NYC. Not Yale levels, but you have to decide what your priorities are.
If you can get the requisite financing Yale or even Columbia and don't look back. If you want to work in the US, go to the best school in the US you can. Simple as that. The incremental 100k in debt or w/e will mean nothing a few years into your career.
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This is a tough one. Ivey is a phenomenal school. Idk if you're a dual citizen but recently it's been harder to place in the US as a Canadian because of stricter sponsorship laws. That being said there are still spots for top students. Because of that I've heard Ivey has been less successful in NY placements over the past few years in comparison to pre-2016.
For me it would be between Yale and Ivey. If you can somehow work the costs of Yale so you'd be below 100k USD in debt I would take it and not look back. Anything over 100k is a crazy amount of debt and I'd take Ivey. The other American schools are great options, but given the small scholarships I wouldn't bother.
Canadian at a top target here. My $0.02: go to Yale. I also got full-rides to most Canadian universities but chose my school over those options. My rationale: (1) If you realize you don't want to do sell-side finance stuff, the opportunities you can get at Yale are unparalleled in whatever else you want to do. Not just the courses but the people you meet and the alumni network is phenomenal. If you don't do Ivey, then the rest of Western is not at all the same calibre.
(2) Many BBs are trending towards hiring fewer and fewer Canadians who are not studying in the US. Pretty much all of the Ivey / Queens kids that worked with me / my classmates who didn't have dual citizenship could not come back and work FT because Trump changed the definition of TN "economist." I have heard people getting denied at the border and the firm cannot do anything but ask them to relocate to the other offices (Toronto, London, etc.)
(3) Arguably, fewer people at Yale wants to do banking versus pretty much everyone at Ivey. From what I see at Yale, pretty much every who wants the job can get it (placement into NYC BBs / EBs happens in the range of at least 20-50 summers / FT) - I'm not sure if that's the case at Ivey (I suspect there's probably 10-20 kids every year?)
Disclaimer: I do not go to Yale.
I did read that Ivey sends about the top 5-8% of their class to the US (40-60/800), whereas it seems that a majority of Yale kids can place in EB/BB with ease at long as they are average or above. But are their certain sell-side groups (I'm thinking of GS TMT, MS M&A, etc) that Yale kids can access that are near impossible for Ivey kids? Thanks for the help!
I would look at each of their career services reports on where students end up. Contrary to what you just said, top BBs are the groups that actually consider Ivey kids (e.g., GS, MS). I believe they take 1-5 every year per top BB. EBs are less likely to take Canadians studying at a Canadian uni, though there are exceptions.
Yale by a mile. You're too young to know if finance is meant for you. Go to the best school with the most opportunities. As a fellow Canadian in the States, I promise you will not regret it.
Yale 100%, don’t even consider Ivey. Canadian at a target US school here, and the biggest thing I have to say is that the value of a top US school is so much more than just recruiting opportunities.
Canadian public schools like Western accept literally anybody, meaning that even though the top 1% are great and kill it, the rest of the people are morons. Even a below average Yale Econ student can get interviews across NY BBs, whereas you wouldn’t even be considered if you’re not top-tier at Ivey.
Also, you’re in high school man. Maybe you don’t want to do IB, maybe you take a class in another department that you love and want to pursue that instead. Being at a liberal arts school with a great recruiting presence gives you that optionality, but still allows you to achieve success in literally any path that you settle on. Ivey will just make you become pigeon-holed into business.
Also the most important thing here is that US FIRMS WILL STOP TAKING CANADIANS soon, it’s just inevitable. Even for people in my position, I’ve been turned down from jobs just because I don’t have American citizenship (@Qatalyst). It’s infinitely harder as a Canadian from a Canadian school. You’d be placing your bets on a few firms (evr, slp) that each take like 3 Ivey kids per year. GS stopped taking Canadians recently after 2 of their LA analysts got turned down at the border.
If you have more questions lmk and I’ll PM you to talk through my experience.
Two things that cracked me up and 100% accurate: "Western accept literally anybody" & "US FIRMS WILL STOP TAKING CANADIANS"
Hi, I'm interested about 'US firms will stop taking Canadians', and would be interested in the other values a top US school could bring besides recruitment. If you could PM me, I would appreciate it.
yale but if you fit in with culture more at duke/columbia feel free to go there too
Yale. You can typically work with the school to get some financial aid if you push.
Also - what are your interests? Personality type?
I would say that I am a type-A personality: President of student government, started school fund (with the school's money,hehe), and became a supervisor at the golf course I worked for after 4 years (major time commitments). I am generally well-liked, and go out parting almost every Friday night. Throughout high school, I was sponsored by the Canadian Olympic program (~40-50 hours a week). Unfortunately, I destroyed my knee in a car accident while my friend was driving, so I had to quit this past year. I'm looking to explore new clubs/things to do, as I now have all that time to devote to something else. I would like to go somewhere I can be exposed to new people and ideas. It seems to be a near consensus that Yale would be best choice, so I have contacted Yale for financial support (hope to get some of their endowment).
Go to Yale. You’ll fit in best there
Just curious, what scholarship did u get to have a full ride at Western and Ivey for all 4 years? Didn't know such a thing existed :P
Also my input as a fellow Toronto HS Senior also considering Ivey with other US Schools (albeit not as elite as yours), namely WashU, IU Kelley, Emory and UNC, I'd go with Yale unless your family is seriously struggling (which I'm guessing isn't the case as they have meet full need). I was seriously considering UNC, Emory or WashU full pay over Ivey full pay after doing thorough research. If I had Duke, Columbia or Yale as options, I would not even stop to think about Ivey and wouldn't look back.
Congrats!
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Yeah honestly the mentality of people only caring about grade 12 marks is sort of what got me down and prevented me from getting into any true US targets. Takes some next self-discipline to not let yourself slack off from grade 9-11 when everyone is just thinking about Canadian unis.
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