DO I NEED A REALITY CHECK? HELP?
These are my top 5 schools. Do I need a reality check?
1) MIT
2) Columbia
3) Tuck
4) Oxford
5) Fuqua
I want know with my profile what are my chances at a M7 or T10.
School: No-name state school. Finance degree(change degrees around a lot)
Demographic: White male
GPA: I received a 3.71 GPA, Only took 12 credits a semester as I had to work while in school. One semester I got a 3.2 GPA the rest I was around 3.5-4.0 GPA. Took me 4.5 years and I had to drop 1 class due to COVID and one semester due to health issues..(7 W's on transcript)
Intern Experience: Accounting role at a Asset Management firm--> VC intern--> No-name investment bank.
Full Time: Received a full-time offer from bank and have been there for a year.
Non-profit: I have some non-profit experience but nothing outstanding.
GMAT: Took practice think I can get around a solid 720
CFA: Should I take the CFA level 1 in July? Will it help my app or would it be better to focus on killing it at my job?
Any insight would be super helpful!!! Just trying to figure out what my next steps should be....
What tier of state school are you talking?
I'm talking never heard of before. Small state school. Think unranked type of school.
How many years of experience?
1 full year as of now.. I’ll probably get another 2-3 before.
Possible but not HSW, look into Tuck, Fuqua, Ross etc as well.
Think these top 5 are reasonable or should I have a reality check?
1) MIT 2) Columbia 3) Tuck 4) Oxford 5) Fuqua
It will probably take you a little longer than the standard 2+2, just considering the experience you have right now. You might want to try and go A2A or make your way to other more senior positions to improve your standing before you get an MBA. This will probably help you get a lot more out of investment, and it will put you in a better spot coming out of the MBA.
The CFA or even a one-year MF is a really good option if you are trying to improve your role immediately.
I’m sorry I have never heard the term A2A, could you explain that to me?
I guess I am seeing 2 options: 1) study for the CFA and use that to validate my low GPA and subpar school. 2) Ditch the CFA and dedicate more time to work for the next promotion.
What are your thoughts here?
A2A is Analyst to Associate
Yeah, I think the second is more important than the first. However, the CFA will never hurt if you have the time to do it on the side.
Also what is a one-year MF?
1 year masters in finance. More common in Europe, and the top MF are there (HEC, Oxford, etc.), but MIT also has a phenomenal one
Tbh, I think HSW+Sloan MBA in general is difficult to get in
But I don't really understand why people on WSO often say other M7 is so difficult.
Had a quick skim on linkedin and there are a bunch of big 4 from Asian countries attending M7 and big 4 is frowned upon on WSO community for recruiting and MBA. And mind you, big 4 is Asian countries are even worse than US big 4 (they pay like 1-1.5k USD a month).
I think HSW/Sloan you can simply ace it by getting 730+ GMAT, ok work experience, good essay and some community experiences. My colleagues have gone from BB ops / big 4 audit / big 4 advisory to columbia/booth/kellogg
Edit: meant to say non HSW Sloan
And community/leadership experience plus reputable company are quite impotatim
Interesting. Thanks for your input. Sounds like key will be promotions and a high GMAT.
I have no opinion on this discussion but your use of logical reasoning is remarkable. Lower pay in a foreign country means they are "worse" in the eyes of MBA adcoms? What?
My logic is that IB in those countries are way more prestigious and difficult to get in as they pay global pay (matching US salary), while big 4 etc. pays local salary and intake is very large
While the class size for IB in Asia (combined across countries) is smaller than IB in US, big 4 class size is probably much larger in China / India vs US.
Also, FLDP programs in Asia are paid more than big 4 while NYC big 4 pays similar salary. In short, big 4 in foreign countries are less selective than FLDP/IB in the same country and hence they are "worse" compared to other candidates.
Anyway, tons of big 4 get into M7. So I don't see M7 being as difficult as people exaggerate if one can have good rec, gmat and essay with some community leadership experience
You asked for a reality check. I think you may need it.
Business school adcoms look at branding and perceived competitiveness as signals for success. Unfortunately, at this point, for the schools you mention (apart maybe Oxford - which is a strange addition to list anyway), the only good thing is an ok GPA. Your college name won't help (as you note), your bank is a no-name, your internship experience is so-so, your demographic is not a URM, not a lot of extracurriculars, and you can get an average GMAT (for your target schools). Generally, a CFA doesn't really move the needle for MBA admissions, and definitely won't if you only take level 1.
I also think what some of the others posted is not applicable in your situation. Getting into an M7 is not easy, there are BB/EB + MF/UMM PE people rejected every year. Big4 is more competitive in Asia and Europe, hence why you see them at M7 schools (even if "they pay like 1-1.5k USD a month"). I don't think I've seen any Big4 audit or BB ops M7 student or alumni from the US that wasn't an URM (I haven't sampled the entire network, so there may be one or two).
Now, what you can do:
1. Make sure you study for the GMAT and aim for 730+.
2. How unknown is your investment bank? Does it send people to M7s (huge red flag if no one ever went to one from your firm)? If it does, talk to the alumni from your bank to see how you can improve your profile.
3. If your bank doesn't normally send people to M7 MBAs, you have several options:
- lateral to a top MM or a BB/EB (hard if your firm is unknown even to them)
- move to a PE firm (also hard and it won't help if it's a no-name PE)
- apply for a management development program (finance leadership or whatever the name is) at a well known firm. Tech FANG type names are best, but harder to get into. The easier ones would likely be consumer brands (Pepsi/Coca Cola types), or energy firms (Exxon/Chevron etc). This is because there will always be all sectors and job functions represented in an MBA class, and out of favor sectors might be an easier way in.
SReaper I read some of your comments. Would it be cool if I PM you? Seems like you have a good amount of insight on this subject.
Sure, feel free to send me a PM
SReaper I love the reality check! Thank you but I have a couple of follow up questions/answers.
1) Why is Oxford an odd choice? I felt like with my background it was still a brand name.
2) Firm is really unknown founded less than 2 years ago. 1 MD and 1 VP has M7 experience. Others are from target/semi target undergrad.
3) I had offers at decent MM's but went with this firm as there is a lot of growth and salary potential compared to a MM. So would it be better to go back to a MM or stay and go A2A?
4) I honestly don't have a desire for F500. So maybe MBA isn't in my future?
Firstly, the question is why you want to do an MBA? Do you want to have a better brand school on your CV or looking at a change in role? By the way, it may be an error with the WSO notifications, but it seems to suggest you are a user who recently asked questions about 2021 SA roles.
On your questions/comments:
1) Oxford is an odd choice because, although the university brand is very strong, the MBA program is not at the level of the university (at least yet), so will likely be seen in the US at a lower tier compared to the other schools your mentioned. Also, I would say Oxford is a good choice if you want to leave the US and relocate to Europe (or maybe Asia as well), which doesn't sound like your plan. Being in the UK won't help with getting jobs back in the US.
2) So it sounds like the founders/senior people have decent pedigree (I assume the MD and VP you mentioned also came from BB/EB/top MM?). It will certainly help if you apply to their M7 schools and they write a great recommendation as alums of the MBA program there. That being said, you will still be competing with BB/EB/MM bankers who also have recommendations from M7 alumni.
3)-4) A top MBA can still be in the cards, but first figure out why you want/need one. If want to pursue one, moving to a brand name will help. Good experience/promotions also help. Ideally you want both. Have people from your bank moved up to BB/EBs?
Founders/senior people came from LMM PE/Search, BBM, or Hedge funds. I think I could lateral...I just don't really want to. I have great pay and a great team.
Would not having a MM/BB name hurt me that much?
Apologies if I missed it--but what are you looking to get out of b-school?
Beyond PE, most of the top 15 will get you the same looks at roles. Having gone to one of (Tuck/Fuqua/SOM), I would say you are "in the mix" for applying, but its definitely contingent on getting a 720+ as a starting point. Next you need to tell a coherent story about why you want an MBA and what you want to go into afterward.
As it stands, you are part of the discounted demographic, so you will want to overshoot the GMAT average, and given the way you've described your undergrad reputation, this is the largest factor without a doubt. The work experience will *practically* be very helpful but for an application they perhaps won't take it as seriously if it has no clout.
The reason Oxford is weird is because unless you have a clear role you are targeting in Europe, it's actually going to be a worse school than the others you've listed. It would be a cool experience, but far less pragmatic and the name carries much less weight than you think.
Skip the CFA. I completed some but not all levels prior to application thinking it would help and they didn't care at all, and definitely don't care unless you have the designation.
Sounds like if I kill the GMAT, have a good reason "why", and do well at my current firm I could make it into a decent MBA.
I am definitely going to drop the CFA and focus on that GMAT.
My end goal is to go on the search/PE. I had offers at MM banks but felt like this no-name bank would give me better exposure to what I want to do in the future(it also had better pay potential). Now I am getting good experience but I feel like I will need a more respectable background. I am also slightly interested in PE but much rather go on the search.
Fuqua your most likely choice. Would follow up with Ross / Kellog / Haas / Anderson / Marshall / Tepper (def lower tier). Can't say much about Said since I'm in NY. Have a ton of friends who went to bschool and tbh the ones who got into the schools you mentioned for the most part had branded names for employment which were at least decently recognizable. Those who didn't have those name tended to be career pivot guys who were going from x industry > finance/business. But dynamics are changing for adcoms so I would definitely consult someone before finalizing your list of places.
Edit: may be helpful to add that in the last 2 yrs, I had a friend get admitted to Wharton who worked at a bottom tier LMM bank and had a subpar GPA at a good undergrad bschool (Stern/Kenan-Flagler/Goizueta) who said he got in pretty much based on his GMAT
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